John_Mann

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Posts by John_Mann

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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  John_Mann

  Have you any idea how unrealistic that sounds? I have to say, it's sounds a bit on the silly side. Sorry to be so abrupt.

  If you really think about it, it doesn't sounds unrealistic at all.
  
  
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  Im going to restate a question that I've asked twice now. What is your source of information? Who has given you all this supposed knowledge on the inner workings of the soul? According to you, souls that have been separated from the body (presumably the only souls that can remember being heaven, hell, or purgatory) can't speak with us physical beings to corroborate anything you're saying on the subject. As far as I can tell you have a lot of "answers" but zero proof.

  I'm talking about metaphysical matters.

  What kind of proof or evidence are you talking about? Mathematical? Logical? Scientific?

  Are you talking about scientific proof or evidence when you say the scientific method is applicable to metaphysics?

  Where did you get this information?

  The very scientific method is supposed to be only applied to the physical world, just like an ordinary tool (hammer or screwdriver). I don't know if you're aware of that but you're applying a strange metaphysical interpretation upon science. You say science is the only way to get knowledge and scientific method is applicable to metaphysics. Nowhere in science there are such statements.

  In fact you are following a philosophical system called positivism. Idk if you're aware of that or if you don't know what the scientific method is or what metaphysics is. Probably you're just a blind follower of positivism (lately it's spreading like a plague).

  Do you base your life in science? Science is just a tool and try to view it as a golden calf will just bring you more disappointment (just like the JW disappointment). Because your life needs to be guided by a metaphysical principle and not by a hammer.

  The scientific method is a philosophical system and metaphysics is also. Everything I said is subject to philosophical study since the dawn of man. And the test of it is time. Nature itself "hates" waste. If something is not true it will never last too much time. My view is standing for thousands years throughout many civilizations. Your view is just a little shadow in the stream of time. No matter how hard you try you simply can't change this fact.

  Giving a more direct answer to your question I get my information through philosophical inquiry and through metaphysical revelation (both public and private) brought by non human beings (human souls can't do that without special permission) and through the test of time/history.
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  According to you, the soul lives on after death, so, have you heard from any of your friends or relatives who may have died?
  If you have, did they tell you what the afterlife is like and about their conversations with God?

  Souls after the death of the body are only in heaven, purgatory or hell. They can't contact the living and vice versa.

  Your previous comments suggest that natural evil did not exist before Adam & Eve's fall - that is, it was The Fall that caused natural evil.

  Moral or natural evil requires consciousness to be perceived. So only after creation of the soul, humans were able to perceive evil. It's just like the Buddhist koan about the tree falling without nobody to hear it.

  There's an interesting psychology theory about the origin of consciousness in humans that explains how humans existed without consciousness:

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)
  
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  Are there aspects of the mind that owe nothing to the physical functioning of the brain?
  Are there aspects of the mind that do not correspond to any physical area of the brain?
  What exactly does the soul do that confers consciousness on us, and is this influence transmitted to the brain?
  Does an immaterial soul interact with a brain and body of matter? Does the soul control the body at all?
  If so, how exactly does it do this? What force or causal influence does it exert, and by what mechanism? By what mechanism can an immaterial soul possibly alter the state of the body or affect the brain?

  Neuroplasticity. Intentional behaviour changes the matter in the brain.

  Why would God create an immutable/unchangeable soul-nature and then make it subject to the changeable and imperfect nature of a fallible material body, and judge it for the actions committed by that body?

  Because He wanted this way. The judgement is related to the intentions of the immortal soul and not the body.

  Why do we even need such bodies, if at best they can only allow the true nature of the soul to shine through unaltered, and at worst obscure it?

  The human body came first by evolution. The human nature is designed to be a double nature.

  What is God’s rationale for imprisoning souls in bodies and holding the souls responsible for the uncontrollable irrationalities of those bodies?

  The original plan was the soul having perfect control over the body. And humans are not imprisoned ghosts and are not only physical bodies. Human nature is the union of spirit and matter. The imperfect union between soul and body is temporary and the soul without the body is a temporary state too.

  Which animals are these?

  Globicephala melas: "For the first time, we show that a species of dolphin has more neocortical neurons than any mammal studied to date including humans
  

  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4244864/

  
  

  The evidence shows that our identity, personality and behaviour are completely determined by the physical configuration of the brain, and that a change to this configuration can alter or eliminate any of them.

  The soul needs the brain to be functional in order to interact in the material world. But brain damage doesn't have any effects on soul. It's just like a broken radio can't do a good reception from the broadcast. But it doesn't mean the malfunction of a radio set affects the broadcasting source.
  
  
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  You are having a joke with me, right? You are, aren't you??

  No I'm not. And I'm not trying to sell you some magazines too. Lol

  Just try to imagine your time of death and your consciousness disappearing to nothing forever.

  You will notice that your mind will be filled with a very unique sensation/intuition of someway somehow you will be alright and you will wake up again. Meanwhile your intellect will give some explanation: future scientists will resurrect me or aliens or Thor, etc...

  Just think about your hour of death and you will know what I'm talking about. I'm sure you already done that a lot of times.

  There's something in you that's immortal and you simply know it. It's that simple.
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  74

  Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

  our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

  despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

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• 

  John_Mann

  Globicephala melas: "For the first time, we show that a species of dolphin has more neocortical neurons than any mammal studied to date including humans
  

  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4244864/
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  The study of soul predates Christianity.

  While the soul cannot be reached through the scientific method it's reached through philosophy and is a philosophical subject of study. I think the only "leap of faith" is the soul is immortal or not. If you think the word soul is too much religious you can use the word software. The word soul was originated outside religion.

  It can be reached through intuition too. Search your own intuition and you will see.
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  - What exactly is the soul?

  Every soul is created directly by God at the moment of conception. The soul is non-physical and is created from the metaphysical nothing (nihil). The soul is very simple in structure and have no parts. The soul being created directly by God is a perfect structure. Having no parts it can't disintegrate so it's immortal.

  - What does the soul do?
  - What function(s) is the soul responsible for?

  The soul is simple in structure but complex in function. Basically it's responsible for our will, intellect and abstract memory. It enhances all the mind properties produced by the brain too.

  - What function(s) is our brain responsible for?

  The brain indeed is responsible for some properties of our minds (the immortal soul is just a part of our minds). The brain produces what is called physical soul (or animal soul). This soul is mortal. Our immortal soul is connected with this physical soul. Catholicism say that humans have three souls: spiritual (Psyche), animal (anima, nephesh) and vegetative soul. The very union of the immortal soul and the physical soul is what is partially broken in humans. This physical soul is responsible for an instinctive will that is opposed to the spiritual will.

  - What proof do you have that it is the soul and not our brain that controls every aspect of our consciousness?

  There are animal brains much more sophisticated than humans and they don't produce consciousness. We have mental abilities not traceable to other species, so we have mental properties coming out of the blue (not traceable to biological evolution) like the sense of justice, beauty, perfection and infinity, etc. The gap between human mind and the other animals is practically infinite. How do you explain the Internet to your smart dog and cat?

  - Where is the soul hiding? Area after area of the brain has yielded up its secrets to the probing of neuroscience, and not a trace of it has been found.

  The soul is spiritual or metaphysical it can't be detected by scientific method.
• 
  74

  Was/Is Religion Useful Even if it isn't True?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in his book "the righteous mind" jonathan haidt proposes that religion served - and continues to serve an important role in bringing about cohesion within non-kin groups.. to put it very briefly haidt advocates a form of group selection but only insofar as it applies to humans.

  our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

  despite their intelligence you will never see two chimps helping each other to carry the same log or one chimp pulling down a branch while the other removes the fruit.. his description is that humans are 90% chimp and 10% bee.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  Our unique brains have made it possible for us to cooperate in groups in ways that are impossible for all non-human species.

  Our consciousness is unique but not our brains. Dolphins and whales have much more massive and sophisticated brains than humans.

  If consciousness is a by-product of brain, dolphins would have super consciousness.

  Why dolphins don't have at least a similar human intelligence?

  They are totally isolated from humans too. They could developed intelligence without human competition.

  How do you explain that?
  
  
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  that means we are back to a God that isn't all-knowing and all-powerful. Because if he were those things then he would have been capable of "introducing consciousness" to humankind without screwing it up.

  This full process was meant to be a two way deal. The first souled humans screwed up. Protestants affirm the human nature was totally broken (total depravity) and Catholics say the human nature was not totally broken.

  This is not what I envisioned but this is the mainstream Christian view. The fundamentalist view of Genesis is a very recent approach in history.

  Atheists here seems only to know the JW version of Christianity.