John_Mann

Joined 14 years ago

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Posts by John_Mann

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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  8 years ago

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

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  8 years ago
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  John_Mann 8 years ago

  Yeah, that's doesn't sound right to me either. It would be like if someone was pardoned for their crimes by a ruler but still had to stay in prison. What's the point of the pardon?

  It's like some murder pardoned for his crime by a ruler and being released from prison. But the act of forgiveness does not erases the death of the victim of murder.

  But the consequences will be erased too. Just not at the same time of forgiveness.

  Why remove just the GUILT and not the CONSEQUENCES SIMULTANEOUSLY?

  Idk. Maybe it's an inevitable thing.

  Are you saying that God rather remove the GUILT for something which we did not do instead of its CONSEQUENCES

  We also inherited the financial status of our parents and we live for some time with their financial status. Even though we have no merit or guilt about it.

  Same thing to our place of birth, language, relatives, etc...

  Same thing to our metaphysical inheritance.

  Of course everything above can be changed (not in an instant) at will some point in life.

  
  
  

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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  8 years ago

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  8 years ago
• 

  John_Mann 8 years ago

  Why you? Why not everyone else?

  AFAIK I'm not the only one person to have a vision. Not the first and not the last too.

  What greater good does it serve?

  A lot to me.

  How will it make others believe?

  Its purpose was to make me to believe. But maybe it can help others indirectly.

  Link
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  8 years ago

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  8 years ago
• 

  John_Mann 8 years ago

  So is it Jesus' death that erases the guilt of original sin or is it baptism that erases the guilt of original sin?

  Jesus himself instituted baptism. Baptism is called a sacrament or sign. A sign is something that points to something greater than the sign itself. The baptism is our turn to do something in order to sign an agreement with Jesus.

  The sacrifice of Christ it's only effective to those who believe. The baptism is a public and physical demonstration of faith.

  Link
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  8 years ago

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  8 years ago
• 

  John_Mann 8 years ago

  • But if Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person why is human nature still broken such that humans continue to sin and commit evil acts?

    Before original sin was the original justice. The human nature is not totally broken (Protestants say it's totally broken, total depravity).

    At this moment is only give the sanctifying grace (to overcome mortal sins).

    The original justice will only be restored at the Last Judgment with the resurrection of the body.

    The humankind must have the soul and body permanently united. That's the not broken human nature.

    
    
    

  Link
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  8 years ago

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  8 years ago
• 

  John_Mann 8 years ago

  So, if a person does not get baptized does Jesus' death still erase the guilt of original sin from that person?

  No.
  

  You seem rather confused as to whether or not God himself gave you your vision:

  The vision I had was extremely convincing to me and not anyone else.

  Source: God.

  Delivery: an angel.
  
  
  

  Link
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  8 years ago

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  8 years ago
• 

  John_Mann 8 years ago

  I'm a little late on this, but are you certain you didn't simply enter the hypnagogic state?
  It's not uncommon for people to believe that they see ghosts and spirits and such in this state and be convinced that they were real. However, because you're relaxed your brainwaves have moved from Beta to Alpha which can trigger this state as one approaches light sleep.

  It was a unique experience to me. It never repeated. This is very subjective. And I'm not asking anyone to believe in Christianity because I had some strange experience. Actually my goal here is just share some intellectual information about Christianity. Maybe (someday) it will be useful to someone passing through similar conditions that I passed through.

  Link
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  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  8 years ago

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  8 years ago
• 

  John_Mann 8 years ago

  Your foregoing comments claim that Jesus' death has nothing to do with cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve.

  Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person.

  So, if not Jesus' death, then, does God have a different plan for cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering which has been as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve?

  The consequence of original sin is a broken human nature. Humans in this condition commit personal sins (different from inherited sin).

  There's no clear plan for the planet earth. But it will be transformed at the Last Judgment. At that time everything will change.

  Link
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  8 years ago

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  8 years ago
• 

  John_Mann 8 years ago

  Is the Original Sin committed by Adam & Eve in anyway responsible for the evil which we see in the world today?

  Yes.
  
  

  Link
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  8 years ago

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  8 years ago
• 

  John_Mann 8 years ago

  his therefore means that if Jesus was given access to the "tree of life" he would live forever as a human. It would therefore not be possible for him to die a natural death as long as he had access to the "tree of life".

  Idk. I was talking about the literal JW view on Genesis. I see Genesis as an allegory.
  
  

  Link
• 
  496

  This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  8 years ago

  sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

  various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

  i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  8 years ago
• 

  John_Mann 8 years ago

  The angels still had free will AFTER the original sin was committed.

  Sorry if I was not clear but free-will about changing the choice between good and bad. The most important feature of free-will. They can't change their mind between good and bad but of course they have will about things in their main choice.

  God didn't have the foresight with regard to their eating from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil but he did in the case of the tree of life.
  Having the foresight to realize what would happen if Adam and Eve remained in the Garden of Eden, God takes the precaution of putting a barrier between them and the Tree of Life.
  God being omniscient proactively took steps to ban Adam & Eve from the garden of Eden after they sinned as he foreknew that they would eat from the tree of life and live.
  Yet he didn't foreknow that they would eat from the tree with the forbidden fruit and thereby take steps to put the tree with the forbidden fruit out of their reach - only the tree of life was deserving of such a proactive action.
  Or is it that God is not omniscient - not even of high intelligence - because he did not realize that without a moral sense, Eve and Adam would probably eat the fruit sooner or later? Any parent who puts a plate of cookies in front of their toddler and tells them not to eat any is aware of what the infant will do.

  Please read about molinism.

  So God took away their free will because they rebelled?

  No. Because they were exposed to a total revelation. Angels lost the free-will too.

  do have free will in this instance - I decided that the ton of gold was worth far far more than the pin and therefore chose the ton of gold instead of the pin.

  Nobody mentally sane would choose the pin. There's no freedom in this choice.

  Link