Posts by John

210

Morality Without Deity

by cofty in

one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

John_Mann

Cofty did you saw the video?

"What I'm saying, however, is that the Self is an illusion". - Sam Harris at 3:05 of the video.

This is eliminativism and/or nihilism cofty, like you or not. And you said to me before you just accept "shit happens".

If you is just an illusion why bother with anything? Why "waste" time debating with nothing by nothing?

It's not only God being an illusion but you're an illusion too. You can't deny this logical conclusion. You can't have both ways and you know it.

Do you at least accepts that you're just an illusion like Harris (Dennett explicitly says that too) said?

210

Morality Without Deity

by cofty in

one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

John_Mann

https://youtu.be/fajfkO_X0l0

210

Morality Without Deity

by cofty in

one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

John_Mann

Sam Harris points out the difference between...

A nihilist quoting another nihilist about differences.

Sam Harris as an eliminativist says consciousness does not exist. It's not only about God not existing but we are just an illusion too. There's no God, no Self, no free will, no absolutes, just nothing.

There are no differences in nothingness.

How funny is that?

210

Morality Without Deity

by cofty in

one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

John_Mann

You found the need of the big picture that others don't see.

I'm not saying that I can see what is the big picture. Actually it's very hard to see it. The problem of evil is the hardest theological problem.

I'm saying that I believe there is a big picture. Based in analogous experiences.

210

Morality Without Deity

by cofty in

one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

John_Mann

I think the ultimate goal of morality is the well-being of people.

But in the meantime some acts can be seen as immoral if you don't see the big picture.

Parents submitting children under painful treatment for instance.

Sometimes an apparent evil is the only way to achieve a greater good.

210

Morality Without Deity

by cofty in

one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

John_Mann

"There's no absolute."

( the statement above is the ONLY exception)

20

Death and Judgement Day

by Tirisilex in

i'm having a hard time with this.

what does the bible say what happens when you die?

when jesus was on the cross he said to the man that when he dies he will be with jesus in heaven.

John_Mann

If you not believe in purgatory so you believe Jesus went to hell and preached to demons.

Hell is the very absence of God. So Jesus is not God?

The verdict of the two judgements is equal.

The difference being one particular and another public, with Christ presence. And after that the souls will be reunited with the bodies (maximizing the verdict).

There's no second chance after death. Your destiny is eternally fixed. Purgatory is not a second chance. We have infinite opportunities to repent while on earth but after death there's no more chances.

210

Morality Without Deity

by cofty in

one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

John_Mann

You're right about Protestantism. The Bible read with the Sola Scriptura makes no sense.

Jews wrote the OT in a dramatic way with a lot of exaggeration. Just like special effects to make a lasting impression. It was their writing style.

Catholics do not read the Bible as Protestants (and Atheists). We consider the OT primarily as historical waiting for Jesus. History show us that some accounts is literally impossible.

Every battle and genocide is a symbol for our inner faith struggles.

Catholicism is not founded on Bible. The NT is a product of Catholicism. Outside Catholicism the Bible is pure nonsense.

Amazing how Atheists here seems just to take the Sola Scriptura approach. If Sola Scriptura is the only approach so I'm an Atheist too.

20

Death and Judgement Day

by Tirisilex in

i'm having a hard time with this.

what does the bible say what happens when you die?

when jesus was on the cross he said to the man that when he dies he will be with jesus in heaven.

John_Mann

There's two judgements.

When you die you receive a particular judgement immediately. This judgement is kind of automatic.

In the last judgement we'll receive a public judgement in the presence of Jesus Christ.

210

Morality Without Deity

by cofty in

one of the most persistent arguments for belief in god centres on the necessity of an ultimate law-giver and epitome of goodness.. a softer version is seen in the genuine concern that a loss of faith will result in a corresponding loss of a moral compass - a more strident argument links the existence of good and evil with proof of the reality of god.

it is often asserted that without god, moral decisions degenerate to nothing more than personal preferences and the victory of "might is right".. i want to succinctly lay out my response as an atheist, and show that a supreme being is not required for objective morality.. it is helpful to distinguish between absolute morality, objective morality and subjective morality.

christian apologists frequently conflate the first two, and secular debaters often fail to point out the difference.. theists who disagree on everything else, are unanimous that god is perfectly good.

John_Mann

We believe humans are not just material bodies and not spiritual beings neither.

Humans are the very union of a spiritual soul and a material body. Two different natures forming the unique human nature. And the soul is created at the moment of conception and is destined to be mysteriously united to a body.

Humans are not bodies and are not souls. Humans have bodies and souls.

And we believe the ultimate destiny of humans is to have an eternal union of body and soul.

The ultimate free intentions of the soul will define its eternal destiny with the body.

John_Mann

Posts by John_Mann