Posts by John

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

John_Mann

1. So why did you initially deny that your vision was from God?

When you said "received by God himself" I understood like a pizza boy.

2. How do you know that your vision is not convincing to anyone else?

It's convincing to me. Idk about others.

Have you told anyone else about the specific details/ specific content of your vision?

Yes.

You refused to provide the specific details/ specific content of your vision when someone from this forum asked you to share that information.

I just share this information irl.

3. What about your vision makes you certain that it was from God via an angel?
How were you able to tell that your vision was from God via an angel?

It's a personal axiom (I'd experienced a paranormal event). Just like I accept the several axioms in the scientific method (the entire physical world is understandable to human mind, for instance).

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

John_Mann

Wrong. Jesus himself never performed a baptism. He was baptized by John, who performed baptisms in the same fashion the Essenes had been practising for nearly a century already. The passage of Matthew 28:19, 20 (like many sayings attributed to Jesus in this gospel, also in Luke) is most likely a later adition to justify the practice of baptism by the christians. Actually, one of the most well established events of Jesus's life is also one of the things that caused more embarassments to the early christians: the fact that Jesus was baptized by John, thus being his disciple. THIS was an embarassing fact that the early christian writers had to get very creative in order to make it look otherwise. In turn, around those explanations, a whole new theology was then constructed.

I didn't mean he invented the ritual of baptism. Baptism is a ritual of Hinduism too.

But he gave a new meaning and function to it.

The baptism of Jesus (not in the sense it was performed directly by Him) is totally different from the baptism of John.

Yes, Jesus being baptized by John was not necessary and actually an apparent contradiction. That's why historians are comfortable to accept the historicity of this event. The existence of John is well documented outside the Bible. Actually he was much more popular than Jesus even after the crucifixion.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

John_Mann

Yeah, that's doesn't sound right to me either. It would be like if someone was pardoned for their crimes by a ruler but still had to stay in prison. What's the point of the pardon?

It's like some murder pardoned for his crime by a ruler and being released from prison. But the act of forgiveness does not erases the death of the victim of murder.

But the consequences will be erased too. Just not at the same time of forgiveness.

Why remove just the GUILT and not the CONSEQUENCES SIMULTANEOUSLY?

Idk. Maybe it's an inevitable thing.

Are you saying that God rather remove the GUILT for something which we did not do instead of its CONSEQUENCES

We also inherited the financial status of our parents and we live for some time with their financial status. Even though we have no merit or guilt about it.

Same thing to our place of birth, language, relatives, etc...

Same thing to our metaphysical inheritance.

Of course everything above can be changed (not in an instant) at will some point in life.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

John_Mann

Why you? Why not everyone else?

AFAIK I'm not the only one person to have a vision. Not the first and not the last too.

What greater good does it serve?

A lot to me.

How will it make others believe?

Its purpose was to make me to believe. But maybe it can help others indirectly.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

John_Mann

So is it Jesus' death that erases the guilt of original sin or is it baptism that erases the guilt of original sin?

Jesus himself instituted baptism. Baptism is called a sacrament or sign. A sign is something that points to something greater than the sign itself. The baptism is our turn to do something in order to sign an agreement with Jesus.

The sacrifice of Christ it's only effective to those who believe. The baptism is a public and physical demonstration of faith.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

John_Mann

But if Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person why is human nature still broken such that humans continue to sin and commit evil acts?
Before original sin was the original justice. The human nature is not totally broken (Protestants say it's totally broken, total depravity).
At this moment is only give the sanctifying grace (to overcome mortal sins).
The original justice will only be restored at the Last Judgment with the resurrection of the body.
The humankind must have the soul and body permanently united. That's the not broken human nature.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

John_Mann

So, if a person does not get baptized does Jesus' death still erase the guilt of original sin from that person?

No.

You seem rather confused as to whether or not God himself gave you your vision:

The vision I had was extremely convincing to me and not anyone else.

Source: God.

Delivery: an angel.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

John_Mann

I'm a little late on this, but are you certain you didn't simply enter the hypnagogic state?
It's not uncommon for people to believe that they see ghosts and spirits and such in this state and be convinced that they were real. However, because you're relaxed your brainwaves have moved from Beta to Alpha which can trigger this state as one approaches light sleep.

It was a unique experience to me. It never repeated. This is very subjective. And I'm not asking anyone to believe in Christianity because I had some strange experience. Actually my goal here is just share some intellectual information about Christianity. Maybe (someday) it will be useful to someone passing through similar conditions that I passed through.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

John_Mann

Your foregoing comments claim that Jesus' death has nothing to do with cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve.

Jesus' death erases the guilty of original sin in every baptized person.

So, if not Jesus' death, then, does God have a different plan for cleansing/ridding the earth of the evil and suffering which has been as a result of the original sin committed by Adam & Eve?

The consequence of original sin is a broken human nature. Humans in this condition commit personal sins (different from inherited sin).

There's no clear plan for the planet earth. But it will be transformed at the Last Judgment. At that time everything will change.

496

This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty in

sometimes theists challenge atheists about what evidence would be required before they would believe.

various unlikely scenarios are offered in reply.

i have taken the bait myself in the past.. i think the correct answer is much more ordinary.

John_Mann

Is the Original Sin committed by Adam & Eve in anyway responsible for the evil which we see in the world today?

Yes.

John_Mann

Posts by John_Mann