John_Mann

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Posts by John_Mann

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  147

  Scientism - Nothing But a Childish Insult?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is not uncommon for theists to accuse rational people on this forum of "scientism".. in my opinion it is nothing but a cheap shot from those who know they lack evidence for their beliefs.

  if something like "scientism" actually does exist then i have never encountered it.. here is part of an exchange from another thread - i have brought it here as it was off-topic.... scientism = claim of scientific method being universal and the only valid method of knowledge.

  followers of scientism always demand scientific evidence to anything.

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  John_Mann

  If somewhere somebody exists who thinks that science can tell us whether we ought to prefer chocolate ice cream or pistachio then that theoretical dullard is guilty of "scientism".

  Why do you think that when you think this:

  On the other hand, science can inform us about objective morality and consciousness is probably nothing more than a function of the brain.

  Morality is way more complex than someone choosing ice cream flavors. Don't you agree?

  Don't you see this very point of view indeed implies that science can determine how and why someone chooses its ice cream?

  Why do you think science is able to determine morality choices by scanning molecules from the brain but at the same time being unable to do the same about ice cream choices?
  
  
  
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  147

  Scientism - Nothing But a Childish Insult?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is not uncommon for theists to accuse rational people on this forum of "scientism".. in my opinion it is nothing but a cheap shot from those who know they lack evidence for their beliefs.

  if something like "scientism" actually does exist then i have never encountered it.. here is part of an exchange from another thread - i have brought it here as it was off-topic.... scientism = claim of scientific method being universal and the only valid method of knowledge.

  followers of scientism always demand scientific evidence to anything.

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  John_Mann

  Scientific paper, Cofty.

  Not a magazine, blog, whatever...

  I'm asking for scientific evidence about morality being a subject of scientific method as you claim.
• 
  147

  Scientism - Nothing But a Childish Insult?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is not uncommon for theists to accuse rational people on this forum of "scientism".. in my opinion it is nothing but a cheap shot from those who know they lack evidence for their beliefs.

  if something like "scientism" actually does exist then i have never encountered it.. here is part of an exchange from another thread - i have brought it here as it was off-topic.... scientism = claim of scientific method being universal and the only valid method of knowledge.

  followers of scientism always demand scientific evidence to anything.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  That is only your subjective opinion.

  Please show me some scientific paper about morality being a subject of scientific method.
  
  
• 
  147

  Scientism - Nothing But a Childish Insult?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is not uncommon for theists to accuse rational people on this forum of "scientism".. in my opinion it is nothing but a cheap shot from those who know they lack evidence for their beliefs.

  if something like "scientism" actually does exist then i have never encountered it.. here is part of an exchange from another thread - i have brought it here as it was off-topic.... scientism = claim of scientific method being universal and the only valid method of knowledge.

  followers of scientism always demand scientific evidence to anything.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  On the other hand, science can inform us about objective morality and consciousness is probably nothing more than a function of the brain.

  This is scientism.

  Morality is a philosophical subject not a scientific subject.

  If morality was scientific we could use computers as law judges.

  
  
  
• 
  315

  Atheism = self defeating.

  by towerwatchman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  atheism = self defeating.

  first may we define our terms.

  the word atheism comes literally from the greek, alpha the negative and theos [for god], therefore “negative god” or there is no god.

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  John_Mann

  Empirically speaking, theism could never be totally refuted since, as you pointed out, no one is omniscient.
  However, putting that aside for a moment, there are certain logical reasons that the theist God could not exist. Some of the attributes of this alleged being are impossible. Take omnipotence as an example. Is God able to create something indestructible, that not even he could destroy or uncreate? Whether you answer yes or no, his omnipotence is refuted.
  Or what about his omniscience? Can the theist God ask a question that even he can't answer? If he can, he is not omniscient. If he cannot, he is not omnipotent.
  Is God omnibenevolent; a being of pure love? But who could he have loved before he created the Son and with him everyone else? More importantly, if this God was all alone in the beginning, how could he have developed a language that would have allowed him to conceptualize, reason and so be capable of creating a universe? Language is a social phenomena. A single, eternal God could not develop a language and without language, conceptual thought, reasoning, mathematics - everything this God would need to create anything - would be impossible for him.
  Did God create the Universe - the universe being defined mathematically as the set of all things existing in space-time? But space-time itself defines existence. A being that that created space-time would have to exist outside of it and therefore, would ipso facto not exist.
  You see, even though I may never be able to disprove theism using the scientific/empirical method, I can easily refute it using logic alone. The theistic version of God is no more possible than two and three adding up to six. That said, there could be a deist version of God or an entire pantheon of polytheist gods. I guess it all depends on how strongly someone defines their atheism.

  I think molinism explain all your (good) points.

  Are you familiar with molinism?

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism
• 
  147

  Scientism - Nothing But a Childish Insult?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is not uncommon for theists to accuse rational people on this forum of "scientism".. in my opinion it is nothing but a cheap shot from those who know they lack evidence for their beliefs.

  if something like "scientism" actually does exist then i have never encountered it.. here is part of an exchange from another thread - i have brought it here as it was off-topic.... scientism = claim of scientific method being universal and the only valid method of knowledge.

  followers of scientism always demand scientific evidence to anything.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  But I for one don't use scientism as an insult. Just for clarification of debate.

  Something to be used as an insult is very subjective. I gave the example of punkofnice and nihilism. Punk admitted to be a nihilist but at the same time he said doesn't like the label.

  My position is Catholicism which is an "ism" too. I don't understand why some people are so sensitive about being properly defined.

  There's no such thing as a neutral/unbiased/objective position.

  Objects can't be accessed without a subject.

  So a proper discussion requires clear definitions by the subjects.
• 
  147

  Scientism - Nothing But a Childish Insult?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is not uncommon for theists to accuse rational people on this forum of "scientism".. in my opinion it is nothing but a cheap shot from those who know they lack evidence for their beliefs.

  if something like "scientism" actually does exist then i have never encountered it.. here is part of an exchange from another thread - i have brought it here as it was off-topic.... scientism = claim of scientific method being universal and the only valid method of knowledge.

  followers of scientism always demand scientific evidence to anything.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  Yes
  Perhaps
  Absolutely not

  Well I will not debate about the third point anymore. I decided to be impossible to conclude about your position because your position is contradictory. Reason can't cope with contradictions. Reason demands clear definitions and positions.

  But why perhaps about the second point? I noticed you always write "scientism". Why do you not accept scientism is a well defined term? My first post is about a link from AAAS about scientism. So why a very respected scientific institution would even talk about something that doesn't even exist?
• 
  147

  Scientism - Nothing But a Childish Insult?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is not uncommon for theists to accuse rational people on this forum of "scientism".. in my opinion it is nothing but a cheap shot from those who know they lack evidence for their beliefs.

  if something like "scientism" actually does exist then i have never encountered it.. here is part of an exchange from another thread - i have brought it here as it was off-topic.... scientism = claim of scientific method being universal and the only valid method of knowledge.

  followers of scientism always demand scientific evidence to anything.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  Frankly I don't know if you have a scientistic outlook or not because your position changes from post to post. I'm not sure even you know what you think.

  Well I think your conclusion is what are really happening about Cofty's position.

  Honestly I also can't call him a scientimIST because as you said his very position is totally ambiguous.

  Sometimes he demands scientific evidence about the existence of God (which is scientism) but sometimes he says he never asked for scientific evidence and even accept other/any types of evidence.

  His clear position is atheism (based on the problem of natural evil).

  This topic is about three points:

  1) if there's knowledge outside the scientific method.

  2) if scientism itself is a philosophically well defined worldview.

  3) if Cofty is a scientimIST.

  I think we have exhausted the debate.

  1) yes.

  2) yes.

  3) impossible to conclude.

  Anyone still disagree with some point?

  
  
  
• 
  147

  Scientism - Nothing But a Childish Insult?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is not uncommon for theists to accuse rational people on this forum of "scientism".. in my opinion it is nothing but a cheap shot from those who know they lack evidence for their beliefs.

  if something like "scientism" actually does exist then i have never encountered it.. here is part of an exchange from another thread - i have brought it here as it was off-topic.... scientism = claim of scientific method being universal and the only valid method of knowledge.

  followers of scientism always demand scientific evidence to anything.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/243524/this-man-proved-that-god-exists-he-did-effortlessly
• 
  147

  Scientism - Nothing But a Childish Insult?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is not uncommon for theists to accuse rational people on this forum of "scientism".. in my opinion it is nothing but a cheap shot from those who know they lack evidence for their beliefs.

  if something like "scientism" actually does exist then i have never encountered it.. here is part of an exchange from another thread - i have brought it here as it was off-topic.... scientism = claim of scientific method being universal and the only valid method of knowledge.

  followers of scientism always demand scientific evidence to anything.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John_Mann

  The Ontological argument is a good example. I accept it as an attempt - a failed attempt - to provide evidence for god.

  The St. Anselm's ontological argument is logic (deduction by contradiction to be more specific).

  If you say it's flawed you must demonstrate why.

  I would like to see this logical demonstration.