Posts by Quendi

12

Reasons why I can't talk to you anymore

by sabastious in

1. you don't use the same mispronunciation of god's name that i do.

2. you "went out of god's love" after reading keep yourselves in god's love.

3. i marked on your forehead an invisible message to myself telling me to shun you, even though it's not official.

Quendi

I was disfellowshipped in 2005. After two years of silence, I called my best friend and we talked for a short while. He told me how much he missed me and how badly he wanted me to get reinstated so that we could associate openly and freely once more. We had been through many hard times as well as good times, and I loved him as much as I loved my fleshly brothers. I dreamed of the day we would meet face-to-face again.

Then, last June, I decided that I would not seek reinstatement. Three years had passed since my last conversation with my friend and I had lost all contact. I found a way to contact him through a third party, a Witness who had "faded away." She talked to my friend who gave every indication of wanting to talk to me again. So she passed on my phone number and my message asking him to call me. I haven't heard a word from him since.

The loss of his friendship has been very painful and I mourned as though he had died. After six months of grieving I decided that all I could do was move on. But I was angry that a friendship of more than twenty-five years could be ruined by the hateful theology of a distant religious clique in Brooklyn. I was fortunate in that I had many friends who were not Jehovah's Witnesses and they have certainly stood by me during all this time. But I have also come to realize that one of the greatest evils the WTS has done is the destruction of human relationships. I don't waste time hating the WTS, but I do take some comfort in the knowledge that it will reap what it has sown.

98

New Light

by Spade in

i've noticed quite a few dissidents of jehovah's organization that have left with some fixation on jehovah's witnesses concept of new light.

i really don't understand.

the antiquity of religion may be historically educational, but not always personally illuminating.

Quendi

As I pointed out to my judicial committee, the Bible itself gives a marvelous example of how "new light" works. Follow the line of descent of the "Seed" that was foretold in Genesis 3:15. None of the prophecies or annoucements made with respect to the Seed contradicted each other. For example, Abraham's "heir" was to be Isaac. Nowhere do the Scriptures say that was a mistake and named any of Abraham's other sons such as Ishmael, Zimran, Jokshan, or Midian as his heir and the progenitor of the promised Seed. Each succeeding revelation on this point only reinforced the preceding ones.

The WTS, on the other hand, has issued statements that clearly contradicted its own earlier teachings and beliefs. By claiming to be an antitypical prophet, they in effect say that God is either confused or a liar. But God has never lied to or misled his servants. The only conclusion one can draw from this is the WTS claim of being "the faithful and discreet slave" whom Christ appointed and the "exclusive channel" God is using to impart truth is patently and incontrovertibly false. My judicial committee was quite upset when I said that.

The WTS has compared its doctrinal development to that of a ship tacking across a body of water. Changes in course may be necessary, the logic goes, but the right direction is still being followed. Such reasoning is specious. I've done some tacking in a boat myself, and at no time did I ever reverse course or change my destination. The WTS has done both on a number of different issues, sometimes resulting in great harm to its followers. When that has occurred, I have never seen any statement of apology or regret from the organization.

Only when one is in pursuit of truth do these gross missteps of the WTS become evident. Like so many others, I accepted the false logic of the Society. Glib pronouncements and artfully contrived arguments dulled my own critical thinking faculties. It was only when I made the determination to get out that I began to think and see clearly again. As long as I was convinced that Jehovah's Witnesses had "the truth" and the WTS was "Jehovah's organization", there was no way I could penetrate their smokescreen. I am glad that I have finally done so.

110

A Concerned Elder Speaks

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.

many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.

i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?

Quendi

Wannabefree is entirely correct when he says that passive obedience to WTS edicts does no good. And I think he is also right to say that they should not just step down from positions of responsibility but should leave the organization entirely. Is that too drastic a step? No, because it is the right thing to do. The WTS is determined to exercise as much control over Jehovah's Witnesses as it can. But to do this, it needs compliant officers in place. So from the branch offices on down to congregation servant bodies, the chain of command must be intact to keep control.

Those who are serving in those capacities must ask themselves what their real motives are. Is it to really serve as loving shepherds, teachers, and guides for fellow Witnesses or do they enjoy the rank and privileges that come with their offices of oversight? I don't doubt there are many sincere men serving in different capacities in the organization. But the time has come for them to take a long, hard, honest look at the direction the organization is taking and whether their support, passive or otherwise, is the moral and Christian thing to give.

Those who think they can effect change 'from within' are only deceiving themselves. Any changes the WTS will make will be cosmetic ones at best. The move over the last fifteen years or more has been to tighten its grip and control over the membership. More rules are being put in place, not fewer. Hopes and prayers that Jehovah will "straighten things out" will go unmet and unanswered as well because if that were the divine will, it would surely have taken place by now. The WTS isn't deaf. It has heard the complaints and concerns about its attitude and actions long before now and has not acted on them, let alone acknowledged their legitimacy. There is only one recourse left for honest people and that is to leave and not look back.

110

A Concerned Elder Speaks

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

a lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent km schools.

many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place.

i had a recent experience that you may find interesting.. after the meeting i was working with our cobe on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the km school?

Quendi

All this thread tells me is that the Society's body of elders arrangement, while scriptural, does not have the support of Jehovah's holy spirit. Isn't that obvious? Inconsistent standards, variable enforcement of them, and confusion among elders as to how a college education (in this instance) impacts their duties should raise a red flag to any and all who are involved with this.

Jesus said the religious leaders of his day 'strained out the gnat while gulping down the camel.' This discussion about the Society's attitude toward higher education is in the same vein. Why does it feel it has to make rulings on something that has nothing to do with living the kind of life that will gain divine approval? This kind of action should tell any and all elders that they are being manipulated by an organization that has no idea what Christian living should entail. Their action in this case reminds me of another of Christ's sayings. "Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit." --Matthew 15:14

The stance on college education is only the tip of the iceberg. There are many other issues on which this organization has taken a completely wrong-headed position, and those issues are much more important than whether one has a college degree or not. If you are really upset with the Society's stand on this, the best way to protest is to step down as an elder or ministerial servant. Your presence on the servant body is a silent endorsement of policies and attitudes that have no place in Christian life. I know that is easier said than done, but all the complaining and murmuring in the world is not going to change the Governing Body's mind. Concrete action is the only thing they understand

25

How often do disassociated people go back to the organization?

by SEL in

a friend disassociated in order to get divorced, hoping not to get disfellowshipped.

some time later, he has a serious non-jw girlfriend whom he'll probably end up marrying.

the thing is, he didn't disassociate because he no longer believed the wt doctrines.

Quendi

I knew one man who disassociated himself who did return. I think he did so for the sake of his wife. Both of them were elderly and had been married for more than 40 years when he left. Upon reinstatement he seemed to be happy and then both he and his wife died a few years later.

During the years I pursued reinstatement, my meetings with the judicial committee always turned into arguments. At one point I told them, "I understand that only 30% of those who are disfellowshipped ever return to the organization. As a former schoolteacher, I can tell you that ranks as a failing grade in anybody's book. How do you explain this? If this disfellowshipping arrangement is from God, why is the recovery rate so poor?" As the Mastercard ad campaign puts it, the looks of their faces and the silence which greeted my question were priceless!

4

Annual Visit

by Quendi in

this is a question for those who have either been disfellowshipped or disassociated themselves.

i was disfellowshipped in september 2005 and have no intention of returning.

what i want to ask the rest of you is, did you ever get that yearly visit from the elders to see if you wanted to return to the organization or just how you were doing?

Quendi

This is a question for those who have either been disfellowshipped or disassociated themselves. I was disfellowshipped in September 2005 and have no intention of returning. What I want to ask the rest of you is, Did you ever get that yearly visit from the elders to see if you wanted to return to the organization or just how you were doing? I have received only one such visit since I was disfellowshipped, and it was one of the most discouraging encounters I have ever had.

The Society used to remind the elders that they should call upon the disfellowshipped/disassociated people in their territory once a year. Usually that visit was made shortly after the new service year began in September. For some reason, the organization seems to think that a yearly visit is enough to encourage anyone to think about returning. From what I have learned, many never were called on, even if they were regular meeting attenders as I was. Others got one visit and none ever after.

Perhaps the attitude of many elders was best shown by an experience I had when I was a pioneer. I had found a woman in the territory who welcomed us warmly and took the offer. During the course of our conversation she revealed that she was disfellowshipped, but that she had been thinking of coming back and was very happy that I had called upon her. I told her that I was glad to talk to her and hoped that I would see her at the Kingdom Hall. I mentioned her case to one of the elders very soon thereafter, giving him her name and address. He wasn't even interested, sniffing, "She knows where the Hall is. Let her make the effort to come to the meetings." I was shocked by his cold callous attitude, but in view of my own experience, I think I can understand why I haven't heard from the local elders either. In my case a second visit would allow me to tell the elders that I never want to enter a Kingdom Hall again. It wouldn't change anything, but it would make me feel better.

26

The futility keeps getting brighter and brighter

by munchausen in

here is an interesting measure of the increasing futility of bible studies.

this may have been commented on before, but i don't recall seeing it.. .

1999 yearbook total bible studies 4,302,852. total baptisms 316,092.

Quendi

Washblind,

First, thank you for your welcome. I am very happy to have found this website and to be able to contribute something positive to the discussions. Like you, I believe the right thing for any JW to do is to leave. But this is something they have to want to do, and not feel pressured into doing. That is what I meant by my last sentence, although I may not have worded it too well.

If we know someone who wants to leave, then by all means we should give them as much love and support as possible. I believe that means standing by them especially if they are neglected, abandoned, or shunned. As we know, many JWs know very few people outside the organization, and have not developed close relationships and friendships with outsiders. I think we can affirm their decision to leave if we give them that vital emotional support of our friendship until they are ready to do so on their own.

26

The futility keeps getting brighter and brighter

by munchausen in

here is an interesting measure of the increasing futility of bible studies.

this may have been commented on before, but i don't recall seeing it.. .

1999 yearbook total bible studies 4,302,852. total baptisms 316,092.

Quendi

Thetrueone points to the Internet as a reason for the decline in Bible studies and baptisms. That has had a tremendous impact. But the greatest growth that Jehovah's Witnesses are seeing is in lands where the Internet does not have much saturation. It would be a big mistake to think that the WTS is in serious decline worldwide. That may be true in industrialized countries where access to the Internet isn't difficult and digital devices like computers and cellphones are easily accessible. That is not the case in many other countries, and I expect to see the WTS continue to post good gains there.

We don't want to take an American or Canadian point of view on this question, assuming that what is happening in those countries reflects the worldwide picture. That is a consistent error the WTS makes in constructing its own narrow worldview. The WTS may be seeing stagnation or contraction in some countries, but that certainly is not the case everywhere. The Internet is having an impact, but that impact is not as great as some posters here want to believe.

If the WTS eventually collapses, I am sure the Internet will have played a significant role in its demise. But we cannot even assume the WTS is doomed. I'm sure that 500 years ago, Martin Luther and other dissidents hoped that the printing press would eventually lead to the demise of the Roman Catholic Church. After all, the new invention of moveable type got their message spread much faster and farther than they ever dared to hope. The Church was on the run, and its influence and power suffered. Yet it survived, and today is still strong. It has outlasted dictators, social movements, and internal convulsions and claims more than one billion commuinicants today. Who is to say that the WTS won't do likewise?

Instead of hoping for the collapse of the WTS, let us instead rejoice in our own escape, and help as many people as we can get out. Many of us bear ill will toward the WTS and for good reasons. But we musn't let that turn us bitter. Let us remember our Lord's command to love our enemies and pray for those who have done evil to us. Perhaps they will come to their senses and leave of their own accord. As for us, we can do more good by assisting those Jehovah's Witnesses who want to do what is right.

26

The futility keeps getting brighter and brighter

by munchausen in

here is an interesting measure of the increasing futility of bible studies.

this may have been commented on before, but i don't recall seeing it.. .

1999 yearbook total bible studies 4,302,852. total baptisms 316,092.

Quendi

It is also good to note that much of the growth among Jehovah's Witnesses is taking place in third world countries. Interest in the industrialized world is waning. That means fewer and fewer people in those lands are accepting the offer of a "free home Bible study" from Jehovah's Witnesses. Those people who do want to study the Bible often set up a study group or cell on their own to which they invite their friends and other people who have an interest. Those groups do not adhere to some rigid theology but often encourage free discussion with questions and much give-and-take.

I had a Witness friend who had an interesting way of conducting Bible studies with those he found in the field ministry. The study was never conducted using WTS publications. He would use only the Bible, and even then did not limit himself to just the New World Translation. He encouraged householders to use whatever translation they liked. He enjoyed much success, and he would often advise those who accompanied him in the field service to do it that way. I myself would do so and found that I enjoyed the service much more when I followed his example.

The fact is the organization does not engage in true Bible study either among Witnesses themselves or with interested persons. The method used by the organization reminds me very much of how I learned about religion growing up in the Roman Catholic Church and attending Catholic school. That was marked by use of the catechism. Questions were asked, answers were memorized, and the student then regurgitated them. Most home studies are conducted the same way. That may work in poor countries where many do not have an adequate education or are used to indoctrination of various kinds. But I think it has failed in industrial countries whose populations are more sophisticated and where many will resist this method of teaching.

I think this may be one reason for the statistics given that reflect the ratio of Bible studies to baptisms. I doubt very much that the organization would be interested to learn who these students actually are. I agree with the thought that many (if not most) are the children of active Witnesses, and not people found in the door-to-door work or through "informal witnessing". And there is something else to consider. Only about one-third of children raised in a Witness household are still active in the religion after reaching adulthood. That does not bode well for the WTS.

71

Would The Witnesses Be Happy To See You Come Back to The Kingdom Hall?

by minimus in

jw
friends

would you get a huge response if you ever went back to the hall?.

would nobody care?

?.

Quendi

I have promised that I will never darken the doorstep of a Kingdom Hall again. I was disfellowshipped in September 2005, and up until June 2010 I attended meetings more or less regularly. At my old Kingdom Hall, I was never made to feel welcome by the elders who consistently ignored me unless we discussed reinstatement. When I attended the Memorial, I was certainly made to feel unwelcome. I well remember the Memorial of 2007. I limped into the Kingdom Hall parking lot with a flat tire. Knowing how others felt, I approached another man who was also disfellowshipped for assistance when the "celebration" was over. He did so gladly, along with a disfellowshipped woman. Only one of the brothers offered help. Others drove by us without even stopping or inquiring if we needed assistance.

I attended meetings at another Kingdom Hall some miles away where my reception was entirely different. The brothers extended me every courtesy as far as the Watchtower rules would allow. The elders told me they were glad to see me come to the meetings, and that I should feel free to approach them with any need or problem. They also wanted to sit down and talk to me and offer me any assistance. I moved away from the area before ever doing so, but their love and kindness deeply moved me.

I had one last meeting with my judicial committee in June 2010. Once again, my reinstatement was put off. The sticking poing was my refusal to acknowledge the WTS as God's "exclusive channel" for communicating spiritual truths to humanity. I thanked the elders for their time, walked away and have never looked back. It is just as well. My only reason for seeking reinstatement was to renew my friendships with those Witnesses, some friends for nearly thirty years, whom I still deeply loved and respected. I have left my best friend behind. I have lost the friendships of others who still loved and respected me. But I know I am doing the right thing by turning my back on the WTS and seeking my own spiritual path as Christ taught us to do.

I still have one Witness friend who has refused to shun me during these difficult years. He lives hundreds of miles away and we talk almost daily. He has been begging me to make an effort to get reinstated so that we can openly visit each other again. He does not really understand my reasons for rejecting the WTS. In response to my telling him that the organization is corrupt from top to bottom, he has urged me to "wait on Jehovah" to straighten matters out. My response to that is that Jehovah has not "straightened out" other religions in the world, and he will not do that for the WTS. Instead, it is up to us as individuals to live the kind of life that will be pleasing to him. We cannot rely on any organizaton to do that for us.

Would the Witnesses welcome me back if I were reinstated? I don't think so. I have no doubt that rumors of the reason for my disfellowshipping have spread far and wide and many would be disgusted and shun me all the more. That is what I told the elders on my judicial committee. Needless to say, they vigorously denied that would ever happen, but my nearly forty years association with the organization tell me otherwise. But as I have said to other people, I will not go back. When you cannot even mouth the words of the "Kingdom Songs" because you no longer agree with or believe in their message, there is no reason to return.

I have been rebuilding my life since my decision. It hasn't been easy, but I am finding other people, genuine human beings, to have relationships with. I was somewhat fortunate in that I always had good close friends outside the organization despite the WTS injunction against this. They came to my rescue when I lost my job, my home, and my income. None of the local Witnesses lifted a finger to help, including the elders who knew my circumstances. I could just as easily have become penniless and homeless, but it was so-called "worldly" people who helped me in my darkest hours. I no longer use the word "worldly" and have realized that despite the hardships, I am much better off today than I was as a Witness.