Posts by Quendi

16

Question regarding the memorial

by grewupjw1969 in

although i was raised a jw, i have never understood why they celebrated the memorial on a different day than easter.

can someone explain?.

grewupjw.

Quendi

If the first full moon that follows the March equinox falls on a Sunday, then Easter is postponed until the following Sunday. That is the case in 2011. The full moon will occur on 17 April, but since that is a Sunday, Easter will be celebrated the next Sunday. That is what makes Easter come very late this year, as late as I can ever recall it occurring.

The reason for this goes back to the fourth century. At that time, there was a dispute about when to celebrate the Lord's Supper. Some maintained that the only proper date was 14 Nisan which corresponded to the first full moon after the March equinox. Others said that while the Lord's Supper was indeed important, the Resurrection was even more so, and since Christ rose from the dead on the Sunday which followed that full moon, they preferred to observe that. To keep their Easter celebration separate from that of the Quartodecimans, or the "Fourteenthers" who insisted on the 14 Nisan observance, steps were taken to make sure the two celebrations were separate.

Passover figures into this as well. There is almost always a full moon for Passover since it falls on "the fourteenth day" of the lunar month of Nisan. A lunar month always begins with the new moon, making the fourteenth day the one on which the full moon will occur. Very often the Witness observance of their Memorial will correspond to Passover's date, or will come a day or so either side of it. That is not the case this year with the Memorial falling on the 17th and Passover beginning on the 19th of April.

The Memorial will almost always come before Easter. Very rarely will the two fall on the same day. That is also the case for Easter and Passover. In 2012 the first full moon after the March equinox occurs on Friday, 6 April. Passover will be observed that day after sundown. Easter will come on Sunday, 8 April. Jehovah's Witnesses will likely observe the Memorial that Friday, but there is also a chance the Governing Body will choose Saturday, 7 April for the "celebration". I don't know if next year's date has already been determined.

Quendi

47

Would You Care If You Were Disfellowshipped?

by minimus in

jw
friends

would it have any impact on you?.

Quendi

Thanks for this thread, minimus.

For me it will be six years in September since I was disfellowshipped. The impact has been great. I have no immediate family in the organization, but one of my aunts and three of my cousins are still Witnesses. They live in Ohio and I live in Colorado so contact is infrequent as it is. Where the impact hit me hardest was in Colorado and California where most of my Witness friends live. One of my California friends has stayed in contact with me all these years. None of my Colorado friends speak to me anymore, although I have had indications that a few still miss me.

The blow was softened because I had cultivated many friendships and relationships outside the organization despite WTS injunctions against this. I am glad that I did because these friends gave me desperately needed help, support, and assistance when I needed it most. The first three years after being disfellowshipped were the most difficult because I made a real effort to get reinstated. In the fourth year I came to the conclusion that the WTS claim of being "Jehovah's organization" was utterly and completely false; but I sought reinstatement because I wanted to renew my friendships with Witnesses I still cared for and loved. But in the fifth year I realized that was futile and I abandoned all attempts to rejoin the organization. I feel much better about that decision and have lost any desire to ever associate with Jehovah's Witnesses again.

I ran into a Witness on Friday who spoke to me about attendiing Sunday night's Memorial celebration. We had known each other years ago and had been friends. She spoke to me in a low voice to make sure she wasn't overheard. I thought that if she was afraid of being seen and heard inviting a disfellowshipped person to the Memorial, what good is the celebration and the religion that sponsors it? Her action, doubtless well-intentioned, only strengthened my resolve not to attend. I have joy and freedom now that I haven't experienced in a long time. I will not give them up by returning to the clutches of the WTS. As far as I'm concerned, they are some of the 'wolves in sheep's covering' that Jesus warned against. And while I still have love and affection for my friends and family still trapped in the WTS, I won't go back even for their sakes.

Quendi

8

Downfall, the collapse of Hitler and of the GB.

by the max in

the german film starring bruno ganz as hitler, charts hitlers descent into madness and paranoia, as he looses touch with reallity at the end of ww2,surrounded in the furher bunker in berlin, (bethel) a maniac loosing touch with reallity, gives orders and edicts, that evreyone ignores,(they all recognise he has , gone mad, yet no one dare aknowledge it through fear) the only way to find out the truth about what is really happening in germany, is to listen to the allied radio broadcasts(in our day the intrernet) hitler and nazis warned that anyone caught listening to these radio stations should be executed immeadiatley, gb are nazis, and at one time i would have defended them to the point of death, why are they scared of scrutiny ?

the internet ?

if they (we) for some of us have the truth, what is there to be affraid off ?.

Quendi

Thank you, the max, for starting this thread. Our friend InterstedOne raises a good question. How, with all the information available about its history, has the WTS managed to fend off collapse so far? I think there are some parallels between what the WTS is facing now and what the Roman Catholic Church faced when the Reformation broke out in 1517.

Five hundred years ago there was an invention that was the greatest devised in the last one thousand years: the printing press. Luther and other reformers found it an invaluable resource for spreading their message. In fact, they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams and the reform movement quickly spread like wildfire all through Europe and changed the course of history. But despite their success, the Roman Catholic Church survived, and today claims more than one billion members.

The Internet today corresponds with the printing press of 500 years ago. Its impact has gone beyond the wildest predictions of its devisers. I think it is clear that the WTS fears and hates it as much as the RCC did the printing press. But the Church adapted its strategies to deal with the new invention, and the WTS has done likewise. Be that as it may, the WTS does not have the resources the Church does. I think it is quite possible that the WTS will eventually collapse, and if that happens the Internet will have played a tremendous role in its downfall. But until that day comes, the organization will resist with all its strength, and it has conditioned its rank-and-file members to fight 'shoulder to shoulder' with it in its war against "evil apostates" and "independent thinkers". I hope that will not be enough to save it.

Quendi

3

Apostasy vs. Heresy

by Quendi in

hello friends,.

the july 15, 2011 issue of the watchtower and its hard line on "shunning" of the disfellowshipped has generated much discussion on this board.

i thought i would start a thread on a related issue because i would appreciate getting your thoughts on this.. we all know how liberally the wts uses its favorite curse word, apostate, to describe those who have left the organization.

Quendi

Hello Friends,

The July 15, 2011 issue of The Watchtower and its hard line on "shunning" of the disfellowshipped has generated much discussion on this board. I thought I would start a thread on a related issue because I would appreciate getting your thoughts on this.

We all know how liberally the WTS uses its favorite curse word, apostate, to describe those who have left the organization. My question is does that word really and truly describe WTS dissidents? Back in the Middle Ages and during the horrifying years of the reign of the Inquisition, the Roman Catholic Church used the word heretic to label the dissidents it faced. That word is still in the Church's lexicon today although you very seldom hear or read it. The WTS campaign against "apostates" reminds me very much of the Church's war against "heretics". The Church ultimately lost its war as the Protestant Reformation clearly showed. Still, the Church did survive and today claims some one billion communicants worldwide. I doubt the WTS will have the "happy ending" the Roman Catholic Church had, but that is a topic for another thread.

The dictionary gives these definitions for the two words under discussion.

a·pos·ta·sy

/ ?'p?st?si / Show Spelled [ uh - pos -t uh -see ] –noun, plural -sies. a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party, cause, etc.

her·e·sy

–noun, plural -sies. 1. opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, especially of a church or religious system. 2. the maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine. 3. Roman Catholic Church . the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church. 4. any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs, customs, etc. Both definitions were taken from Dictionary.com. Which word more accurately defines those of us who are "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", to use the WTS jargon? Not that it really matters to those of us who have left, but I think that as in so many other matters, the WTS has abused and misued the word apostate for its own selfish purposes. We know it really wants total control over its members, and language is a very powerful tool it uses to establish and maintain that control. But it was a friend of mine who told me that she left once she understood what the word apostate really meant and that she didn't fit the definition. She still believed in God and wanted to worship Him, but not in the way the WTS defined worship. For what it's worth, I think I would classify myself (proudly) as a heretic because there are still some beliefs I hold in common with Jehovah's Witnesses. I simply want nothing more to do with the WTS. What do the rest of you think? Quendi

172

re-enforcing the shunning of immediate family - WT 7-15-11

by undercover in

july 15th wt study edition (regular dumb edition, not the dumber one).

god's rest - have you entered into it?.

subheading, when someone we love leaves jehovah.

Quendi

I have to share this experience from my nearly five years of attempting to get reinstated. During one of my judicial committee meetings, I was asked, "Do you love the brothers?" I replied simply and directly, "No, I do not." The elders were shocked. The looks on their faces, to quote the MasterCard commercial, were priceless. There was a long silence that was finally broken by the question, "Why would you say that? How could you possibly feel that way about your brothers and sisters in the congregation?"

I answered, "You're kidding, right? How could I possibly love people who won't even say 'Good Morning' or 'Hello' when I enter the Hall? How can I have affection for those who will not display any toward me? How can I draw close to people who won't shake my hand; inquire about my welfare; ask if there is anything they can do for me or fill a need for me? Why should I feel close to anyone like that? After all," I continued, "communication is the lifeblood of any relationship. Where there is no communication, there is no relationship. Since I cannot communicate with anyone here, there is no reason for me to love them, is there?" My answer was followed by another silence and then the elders decided to change the subject.

What struck me about this exchange was that even when confronted with the rotten fruitage of the shunning policy, these drones were unable to think for themselves and draw that conclusion. I have realized that a person's thinking ability is co-opted by this religion. You lose the God-given faculties of free will and the power of reason when you fall in line with WTS culture. It was only when I left the organization that I began to feel free again: free to make my own choices, free to live my own life.

I still love God and have profound respect for the Bible. I am now studying it with other friends. We are realizing that we never really studied it as Jehovah's Witnesses but only studied Watchtower theology. Shaking off the old ways of thinking has been a challenge, but my fellow students and I are learning how to do so. Understanding the hateful and unchristian way the WTS and its followers behave toward those who will not submit to their cult has only strengthened our resolve to seek a true spiritual path. How grateful I am for this!

Quendi

172

re-enforcing the shunning of immediate family - WT 7-15-11

by undercover in

july 15th wt study edition (regular dumb edition, not the dumber one).

god's rest - have you entered into it?.

subheading, when someone we love leaves jehovah.

Quendi

What an unloving, unchristian, inhuman organization the WTS is! They are indeed 'ravenous wolves in sheep's covering' and I am so happy to have escaped their clutches. Being disfellowshipped was the best thing that could have happened to me.

Flipper: You're right about the WTS. I'll add that if the Society had the power to execute disfellowshipped people they would do it at the drop of a hat and they would drop the hat themselves.

Terry: Very well put. I don't doubt that Jesus himself would say to the WTS, "I never knew you. Get away from me you workers of lawlessness"!

Mary: You're being generous to describe Jehovah's Witnesses as "petty and pathetic". Some might reluctantly embrace this latest edict, but many will do so gladly because it gives them a sense of superiority they seem to want so badly.

Paul wrote at Titus 1:16, "They publicly declare they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of any sort." This organization is completely corrupt and unworthy of any kind of support. I only wish there was a way of completely exposing it for the monstrosity that it is. Maybe that day is not far away.

Quendi

23

Yet another July 15th 2011 WT thread...use caution--deconstruction at work

by sd-7 in

i figured i'd start off by just examining the language used in the july 15th, 2011 watchtower, page 15-16, paragraphs 4-7.. apostates are like:.

1. ravenous wolves.

9. their own ideas.

Quendi

Thanks for sharing, sd-7. I've always appreciated your posts, and this one is especially good. I think that in a moral sense, the deck is sloping and the furniture is sliding aboard the SS WTS. I look back now and can't believe that I was closely associated with this organization for more than thirty years! The spirit it exhibits now doesn't resemble the one I knew back in the 1970s, but there is much that is radically different now. The organization has changed with the times, and not for the better. I am glad I have left, but greatly saddened by the rot and decay that has taken over. Mind you, knowing what I know now I would have left anyway regardless of what attitude now dominates the thinking of the Governing Body, but the only feeling I have now for the WTS is revulsion and disgust. I also feel pity for my friends and family whom I have been forced to leave behind. I can only hope that they will someday make their escape; or if the organization collapses--my fondest hope--that I will still be around to extend every help and kindness to them as they rebuild their lives, hopes, and dreams.

Quendi

23

Yet another July 15th 2011 WT thread...use caution--deconstruction at work

by sd-7 in

i figured i'd start off by just examining the language used in the july 15th, 2011 watchtower, page 15-16, paragraphs 4-7.. apostates are like:.

1. ravenous wolves.

9. their own ideas.

Quendi

Thanks for sharing, sd-7. I've always appreciated your posts, and this one is especially good. I think that in a moral sense, the deck is sloping and the furniture is sliding aboard the SS WTS. I look back now and can't believe that I was closely associated with this organization for more than thirty years! The spirit it exhibits now doesn't resemble the one I knew back in the 1970s, but there is much that is radically different now. The organization has changed with the times, and not for the better. I am glad I have left, but greatly saddened by the rot and decay that has taken over. Mind you, knowing what I know now I would have left anyway regardless of what attitude now dominates the thinking of the Governing Body, but the only feeling I have now for the WTS is revulsion and disgust. I also feel pity for my friends and family whom I have been forced to leave behind. I can only hope that they will someday make their escape; or if the organization collapses--my fondest hope--that I will still be around to extend every help and kindness to them as they rebuild their lives, hopes, and dreams.

Quendi

172

re-enforcing the shunning of immediate family - WT 7-15-11

by undercover in

july 15th wt study edition (regular dumb edition, not the dumber one).

god's rest - have you entered into it?.

subheading, when someone we love leaves jehovah.

Quendi

The article claims the son had a choice. That isn't true. The policy for disfellowshipping is quite clear. If the serious offense is committed once, then the "repentant sinner" should be publicly reproved. If there was more than one occurrence, then the sinner must be disfellowshipped. No exceptions. But even if this adult child didn't agree with the Society's definition of "sin", it doesn't follow that he is a sinner or that he doesn't love God and his family. The noose is getting tighter around the necks of those still trapped in this cult. If this is the way they feel about family members, what does this say about those who aren't related by blood but have a close and loving friendship? Obviously, the Society doesn't think that friendship should be preserved either.

I noticed that this excerpt did not cite a single scripture to support the organization's stance. Now, maybe there were some in the complete text. But even if that is so, we can be sure the passages were taken out of context and twisted well beyond their original intent or meaning. But this is not the way the rank-and-file Witness will view it, more's the pity. Well, the day of reckoning is coming for the WTS and it will reap what it has sown. I only hope that I am still alive when it dawns!

Quendi

81

New simplified Watchtower

by alanv in

beginning with the july 15th 2011 edition of the watchtower, the society are producing a simplified version of the study copy.. this is apparantly for the many people whose first language is not english, and yet they live in a predominantly englsih speaking county.. the normal study edition will still be produced but it looks like the cong.

will be able to ask for a supply of the simplified version each month.. this simplified version can be downloaded from the watchtower site.. http://www.jw.org/index.html.

Quendi

Our friend aSphereisnotaCircle asserts that no adult Witnesses will use the "simplified" English version of The Watchtower. I'm not so sure. I think it may well appeal to many young adults and even those in their thirties. My experience as a high school teacher suggests to me that there are many native English speakers whose comprehension and mastery of our language is very poor. Their reading skills are bad. They don't understand the rules of grammar and syntax. They can't express themselves verbally or in written form at a level commensurate with their grade level. Their vocabulary is anything but rich and varied. As a teacher I can't tell you how many poorly written essays, theme papers, or even short test answers I was forced to read. Sadly, I think that this new version will be read by more than just people for whom English is an alternative language.

Quendi