Posts by Quendi

224

When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed? Why It Matters - What the Evidence Shows

by wannabefree in

obviously 607 is a problem, watchower coming out full forces on this one in the latest public edition.. http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/wp_e_20111001.pdf.

Quendi

The WTS has painted itself into a corner with this article and its sequel. Thanks for posting the text and providing the link, Lore. It will prove very useful for us "apostates" in the future. I suppose that what puzzles me the most is what is the reason and purpose for publishing this pablum? I can only assume it is to tighten the vise grip the Governing Body has on the rank and file. They know the general public doesn't buy their chronology and predictions, but it is most important that the rank and file do. The cornerstone of this religion is the teaching that the Gentile Times expired in 1914. They must maintain that belief at all costs.

Here's a question I will pose. Does anyone think this article could also be a way of preparing the rank and file to keep the faith when the one hundredth anniversary of the Gentile Times' "expiration" arrives three years hence? From what I hear, quite a few Witnesses are looking forward to the year 2014 in the hopes something extraordinary will happen. Are there some on the Governing Body as well as the Writing and Service Departments who are doing likewise? Could this two-part series be laying the groundwork for this, or is it just another way of saying, "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"?

Quendi

18

The Most Hateful Christian Group on Earth Today?

by sizemik in

jw
friends

i'm very hesitant about starting this thread .

because i don't want to judge anyone or inspire hatred myself.

also, i believe i'm past the anger/bitterness thing well and truly.. so i'm asking this question not out of emotion .

Quendi

When Mother Teresa died in September 1997, I remember mourning her. The government of India was profoundly grateful for her years of service and charity work in that country. They paid her a signal honor by having her coffin taken to its resting place on the same gun carriage that had borne the remains of Gandhi and Nehru. I discussed her death with some Witnesses and mentioned that here was a woman who had earned her rest and would surely be remembered with favor and affection by God himself. The Witnesses I spoke to all agreed.

I can't imagine anyone saying that about any of the presidents of the WTS or how any government would so honor them or any other Witness. The only exception that comes to my mind was the man named "Bible" Brown, who was genuinely loved and respected by the people and government of Nigeria during his time as a missionary there. Few Witnesses ever see themselves as part of the human family with obligations to their fellows. The religion teaches them that while participation in the field ministry should have the motive of love of God and neighbor, few Witnesses actually understand what that means. Their field ministry is perfunctory. You can tell that from the remarks they make about householders or others they encounter while out in the work.

Sorry for the digression. To address the thread I would have to say that the Westboro Baptist Church has to be one of the most hated religious groups in America--more so than Jehovah's Witnesses. They spew hatred on every occasion. Their right to do so was recently upheld (reluctantly, I might add) by the Supreme Court of the United States. That ruling has only strengthened their resolve to spread their message; and while I wouldn't wish death upon their minister/leader, I would read his obituary with great satisfaction.

Quendi

7

1975 made easy

by breakfast of champions in

have been reading debates on several other threads as to whether or not 1975 was predicted as the end or not.. so go to google news, type in "jehovah's witnesses 1975" or something to that effect, then narrow the results to 1970 - 1979.. actual newspapers will come up with articles about witness predictions of 1975.. from what i see, they did a pretty good job of getting the word out a la harold camping (actually i think he did a better job).

hope this settles the issue for all time.. .

.

Quendi

Well, I was what they now call an "unbaptized publisher" (I got baptized 11 January 1976) back then so I don't need to reference the articles. I know the WTS was actively promoting 1975 as a "critical year". And while nobody came out and said that Armageddon would definitely arrive in 1975, Witnesses were told that if the end did not come in that year it would follow very shortly thereafter. The WTS hinged its teachings on the calculation that six thousand years of human history would end in September 1975. Since the belief was that each of the creative "days" discussed in Genesis was seven thousand years in length, and that all of human history had occurred in the seventh day, the last millennium of the seventh day would surely be filled by Christ and the anointed directly ruling over the Earth.

Actually, the teaching that the seventh creative day would span seven thousand years with its last millennium filled by the rule of Christ and the saints did not originate with the WTS. Fred Franz got it from reading the Ante-Nicene Fathers. But, in typical WTS fashion, that source was never acknowledged or given any credit. Instead, the doctrine was appropriated by Franz and other WTS writers and passed along as the result of their own original biblical research. But plagiarism of this kind is simply part of the modus operandi of the WTS.

Quendi

38

How Would You Refute Disfellowshipping As Practiced By Jehovah's Witnesses?

by minimus in

jw
friends

is "disfellowshipping" proper from a biblical point of view?.

Quendi

@The Quiet One

Thanks for the references. However, let's not forget that disfellowshipping preceded the Knorr administration. J.F. Rutherford used the procedure to purge the organization of men who did not agree with his way of running things. There are several notorious cases of that.

Quendi

23

Were You Ever Involved in A Judicial Committee Either As An Elder Or A "Sinner"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

how did it turn out?.

Quendi

I was involved three times. Twice I was reproved. My third time resulted in being disfellowshipped. As the "sinner", I can say it was the most unloving and humiliating experience I have ever had. The elders in each case told me they wanted to help me, but their questioning was anything but kind, helpful, or loving. They sought all kinds of salacious details about what I did and with whom. They weren't content with the fact that I approached them asking for help. I could have kept the whole matter secret and let nobody know, but I believed the lie that these men would seek to restore my spiritual health. They did nothing of the kind.

I spent five years seeking reinstatement. The judicial committee never encouraged me. Instead, they brought up trivial and irrelevant matters that had absolutely nothing to do with the original wrong. But they used those to deny me reinstatement. Slowly I began to realize that they did not want me back, or at least not back in their congregation.

There was a time when I attended meetings in another congregation miles away from the one that disfellowshipped me. My treatment there was the exact opposite. The elders noticed I entered after the opening song and always left before the closing prayer. Individually, they approached me and told me they were glad to see me at the meetings and how much they wanted to help me get reinstated. They wanted to talk to me about the steps I needed to take, but I moved away and never spoke to them again.

I went back to my old congregation where the mistreatment began anew. I realized that if two different congregations had two different ways of treating disfellowshipped people, there was no way that the organization they were part of was divinely supported or directed. I knew that I had to get out and never go back. There were other factors that contributed to my decision to forever turn my back on the WTS and all it represents, doctrinal differences being among them, but my treatment as a disfellowshipped person seeking reinstatement made a major one.

Quendi

38

How Would You Refute Disfellowshipping As Practiced By Jehovah's Witnesses?

by minimus in

jw
friends

is "disfellowshipping" proper from a biblical point of view?.

Quendi

When I mentioned the parable of the Prodigal Son to my judicial committee, the silence that followed was deafening. I still see them sitting in front of me with their mouths hanging open. They were nervous and uncomfortable, particularly when I followed through with the fact that I came to them for help and was disfellowshipped instead. How was that following Christ's example who said that if our brother begs for forgiveness, that must be granted?

The procedure as employed by the WTS has absolutely no scriptural foundation. Show me anywhere in Holy Writ where it says that a committee of three or more men must be formed. Show me where it says that their decision to disfellowship anyone can be appealed? Show me where individuals can be disfellowshipped in absentia? Show me where the Governning Body was to be involved in such situations and cases? Point out to me where shunning was to be used against those who were seeking to return to the congregation? If you can find anything, then I'll take it all back. But you won't.

Looking back now, the best thing to happen to me as a Witness was to be disfellowshipped and endure nearly five years of humiliating efforts to be reinstated. It took a long time, but I finally saw that there is nothing about this cult that has divine sanction or support. Once I realized that, I knew I was free at last and have never looked back.

Quendi

224

When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed? Why It Matters - What the Evidence Shows

by wannabefree in

obviously 607 is a problem, watchower coming out full forces on this one in the latest public edition.. http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/wp_e_20111001.pdf.

Quendi

We all know the reason for the WTS insistence upon 607 BC as the date of Jerusalem's destruction at the hand of the Babylonians. They are determined to hold on to 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times and the year that Jesus Christ began his kingdom rule. However, even if it could be proved without a doubt that Jerusalem was indeed destroyed in that year, there is still no way that a link can be established between that year and 1914. There is plenty of evidence from the Scriptures themselves to demonstrate that the WTS calculation of 2,520 years being the length of the "Gentile Times" is completely false.

But the issue at hand is the year of Jerusalem's destruction. The WTS relies on the fact that when it makes ex cathedra pronouncements like the one given here, the rank and file will follow. Most Witnesses are not critical or free thinkers. They rely entirely upon the cult leadership to give them the information they need to function. They also think that the Governing Body and its writing staff are completely honest, are careful and thorough researchers, and go over their findings with a fine-toothed comb before publishing them. They believe that Jehovah himself is directing them, and that whatever appears in the publications ultimately has a divine source.

I liked how wannabefree concluded his last post. "Yet, they fail to consider that secular sources conflict with Watchtower explanation of the Scriptures, not the Scriptures themselves." I couldn't put it any better myself.

Quendi

54

Trying to Salvage a Friendship

by Quendi in

my friends,.

i need your counsel on a personal matter, and i hope you will give it in love.

as some of you know, i was disfellowshipped six years ago, but it wasn't until june 2010 that i made up my mind never to return to the wts.

Quendi

@talesin

I put the card to "Evan" in the mail today and it should reach him no later than Saturday. He might even get it tomorrow. I used your suggested message practically word-for-word and added a sentence that also gave him my e-mail address. My return address (a post office box) is on the envelope, but I did not put my name there because I did not want any of his relatives with whom he is staying to possibly keep the card from him. All of his family know that I am disfellowshipped. Since they also know my handwriting, I addressed the envelope in block letters rather than cursive script.

"Evan" and I used to go on what we called "buddy trips". It would be just the two of us and we would take up to a week wandering through the mountains of Colorado. We took photographs; went to ghost towns; traveled back roads; examined regional geography and geology; and traversed many a high pass. Early autumn, when the aspens turned gold, orange, and red was our favorite time of year to do this. When high summer brought out mountain wildflowers, we would get up into the high country to see them. (Can you tell that both of us are nature lovers?) His favorite place in the entire world is the San Miguel River Valley high in the San Juan Mountains where the ski town of Telluride stands. Looming over Telluride are mountains and mesas that have to be seen to be believed. So the card I chose to send has a photograph of a flower-spangled mesa with the snow covered San Juans beetling above it. I'm sure it will bring back many memories of our travels together.

Now all I can do is wait. The friends I have spoken to believe that I have done all I can and that your suggested approach is the best. They think "Evan" will respond positively. I know he is unhappy, lonely, and suffering from depression. Being trapped in the WTS cult is making matters worse. I hope that he will ignore their orders about not communicating with disfellowshipped people and reach out to me. Whatever happens, I am satisfied with my effort to salvage our friendship.

I want to thank talesin and everyone else who gave me counsel on this sensitive subject for me. I'll keep all informed about any future developments.

Quendi

43

MY JW DAD HAS CUT US OFF! WE ARE DEAD !

by Hairyhegoat in

jw
friends

well we don't care that he has cut us off!

we have 4 kids, he ain't going to see them before the grim reaper comes lookin for him.

my job skills are well in demand in alberta canada so that's our next move, we are getting out of the uk sinking ship asap, we have family in alberta who will sponsor us so i think it's time to leave and make a new start for our kids, as their aren't no jobs in the uk for them now even with university qualifications behind them.

Quendi

Colorado and Alberta are both in the Mountain Time Zone and the state and province are observing Daylight Savings Time, which I absolutely hate. That puts us seven hours behind British Standard Time, Hairyhegoat. As for the information, you're very welcome!

Quendi

43

MY JW DAD HAS CUT US OFF! WE ARE DEAD !

by Hairyhegoat in

jw
friends

well we don't care that he has cut us off!

we have 4 kids, he ain't going to see them before the grim reaper comes lookin for him.

my job skills are well in demand in alberta canada so that's our next move, we are getting out of the uk sinking ship asap, we have family in alberta who will sponsor us so i think it's time to leave and make a new start for our kids, as their aren't no jobs in the uk for them now even with university qualifications behind them.

Quendi

As a fellow Colorado resident, I can tell you that ziddina's advice is sound. Static electricity can be combatted by simply buying a humidifier for your residence. They are cheap and available throughout the intermountain west in both the U.S. and Canada. The engine block heater is an extravagance in my opinion. I have lived in Colorado for some thirty years and have never needed one. The winters here can be quite severe--but they are much sunnier than any winter you've ever had in Britain by a long way. And the Rockies are simply awesome. They are why I still live in Colorado. Alberta has two outstanding national parks: Banff and Jasper. Its two major population centers, Calgary and Edmonton, are liveable.

As for Vancouver, the climate there is a marine west coast one, very similar to what you have in Britain. The city itself is ethnically diverse, and the population is generally well-educated. There is a cosmopolitan atmosphere there that you won't find anywhere else in western Canada. Pacific Rim National Park is on the city's doorstep and the rugged beauty of the British Columbia coast is world class.

Quendi