Posts by Quendi

90

I told the baptist church pastor that I'm gay!

by TimothyT in

his reaction wasnt as liberal as i hoped it would be.

he said that we needed to discuss it.

however, gone are the days where im putting myself in the firing line and not sticking up for myself.

Quendi

There have been many interesting thoughts presented on this topic, so I'll venture one as a gay man. I don't agree with those who say that seeking out a welcoming church is a waste of time or that a church is completely unnecessary for anybody. That is a "one size fits all approach" which fails to recognize individual needs. I think TimothyT is right to seek a spiritual community that will openly and warmly welcome him and his partner.

That is what I did. After deciding to break ties with the WTS for good and all in June 2010, I looked at how I wanted to live my life. I read and studied the Bible on my own as well as in collaboration with others. I enjoyed that, but I also wanted to fill the void that opened when I turned away from the organization. After all, the WTS had been an integral part of my life for more than thirty-five years, so dropping it opened a chasm that I had not anticipated. After rejoicing in my new freedom, I gradually discerned that I still wanted to be part of a spiritual community.

I live in metropolitan Denver and had no idea where to find a church that would welcome GLBT people. So I turned to Google and looked for gay churches in Colorado. That is how I found the Metropolitan Community Church of the Rockies, a church that is welcoming and open to all, but especially to GLBT people. I started attending services there in early September and have not regretted the decision. What I found most pleasing was not only being welcomed and wanted as a gay man--something I never experienced in any Kingdom Hall--but the fact that this church emphasized love of God and following Jesus Christ. That was something I wanted and needed to have in my own life.

The services and sermons don't mention sexual orientation. There is no political agenda that is pushed such as insisting on gay rights. Instead, the openly gay pastor gives messages that show how the Bible is still relevant to our lives in the twenty-first century, and how we can practice real Christianity. I haven't faced unwanted pressure to join the church, nor have I been told that there are certain beliefs I must have or activities I must take part in. A number of straight couples regularly attend as well, and it is clear that they feel right at home. Many children also attend with their straight and gay parents.

As others have already shared, I recommend this course to anyone who wants to explore and deepen his spirituality. It is very important to find a community that will welcome him or her without preconditions. Thanks to the Internet, the search for such a community is now much easier than it used to be. Many have availed themselves in this way and have been more than satisfied with the results. I know I am.

Quendi

63

{Sigh}, I could use a hug...

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

jw
friends

my first two exams were this week.

things didn't go well.

the classes are tough -- math and science.

Quendi

For what it's worth, Billy, let me share my college experience with you. I majored in mathematics and came very close to earning a minor in applied mathematics. During my years at the University of Colorado, I flunked three courses and made D's in a couple of others. I also had a second major in Geography where I concentrated on physical geography at that and took courses in remote sensing and cartography among other things.

So it was very challenging and difficult, and more than once I wanted to quit. But I persevered and finally earned my degrees in both Geography and Mathematics. And, believe it or not, I went on to teach high school mathematics and still hold a teaching license in that subject. My point is that you will survive. Great grades and test scores are not what college is all about. You are there to learn, and all your experiences can teach you things that will be very useful down the road just as mine did, even the unpleasant ones. "Don't give out; don't give up; and don't give in." You'll make it and do very well. Remember, you have more people on your side than against you and all your supporters want only the best for you.

You've made the right decision in attending college and earning your degree. You'll never regret it. Keep doing your best and call out for help and support when you need it as you are doing now. We are all very, very proud of you and will walk with you every step of the way. One of the proudest days of my life was when I graduated, and all the more so since I was selected to give the undergraduate commencement address at the Geography Department's recognition ceremony. More than forty of my friends and family attended and that made it all worth while. I was 46 years old when I got my diploma, and I have every confidence you will earn yours.

Quendi

34

What would the WT do if anti shunning laws were passed?

by Aussie Oz in

what would the wt do if say, a country or countries enacted a law that made shunnung illegal?.

punishable by time in prison or heavy fines?.

would they have the gall to 'obey god as ruler' rather than man, and actually continue the practice in defiance of the law even though they would incur the wrath of governments?

Quendi

I think, Aussie Oz, it depends on the country. Such laws stand absolutely no chance of being passed in the United States where the First Amendment offers protection for the WTS and similar sects to practice this. It may be different in Australia.

Quendi

78

Do you sense that the Watchtower will implode?

by AK - Jeff in

since leaving the organization 8 years ago, there have been more significant changes in the actual, physical activities of the organization than occurred in all the 40 plus years i was 'in'.

bethel closings.

bethel layoffs.

Quendi

It's easy to look at present trends and use them to predict what will happen to the WTS, but that can be fallacious. I'll remind everyone that thirty years ago both the Berlin Wall and the Soviet Union stood secure. Who would have thought that the Wall would be breached and people stream through its fissures in less than a day as happened on 9 November 1989, or that the Soviet Union would see an abortive coup lead to its own implosion four months later as happened in 1991?

The WTS stands today in a seemingly secure position. Yes, there is dissension within, and the barbarians are at the gates. But the organization is making the kind of adjustments that it hopes will retain its control over the rank and file. Nevertheless, despite these changes and adjustments, I am beginning to believe that its end may very well come as swiftly as the Soviet Union's did, or even perhaps like the end that came upon the neo-Babylonian Empire in 539 BC.

Perhaps the death of a Governing Body member will do this. Maybe some court action in a Western country will. Or it could be a combination of external forces and internal pressures that will finally precipitate a collapse. But the end of communism in Europe taught us that trends don't always continue and sudden change can come when least expected. The WTS is not so mighty that its leaders feel totally secure. My hope is that when that end finally arrives, I will be alive to see it and rejoice.

Quendi

25

Dr Laura Schlesinger Rant

by Iconoclast in

jw
friends

i don't know if this is accurate or not.

it's on of those fb chain letter thingys but it's awesome and i'd thought i would share:.

in her radio show, dr laura schlesinger said that, as an observant orthodox jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.

Quendi

Whether Dr. Laura was confronted in this way or not, the letter raises valid questions for fundamentalists. Thanks, Iconoclast, for posting this.

Quendi

18

Prediction: Expect a change in Study Edition distribution

by baltar447 in

jw
friends

after all the hoopla over the "mentally diseased" stuff, i'm making a prediction.

i expect that the borg will stop distributing the koolaid wt online, at least to where anyone can download it.

i expect that they will require the jws to create logins and passwords to access the study edition, somehow tying that that back to what congregataion you're in and maybe even an elder approving that you attend.

Quendi

I very much doubt that the WTS will limit access to the study editions of The Watchtower to those with Internet access. You have to think about rank and file Witnesses in lands where such access is far from common. Denying them "spiritual food" leaves the Governing Body wide open to the charge that they are not the "faithful and discreet slave" since they would no longer be dispensing 'food at the proper time'. They would never be able to defend themselves against that accusation and the cure would be worse than the disease. I think leavingwt summed up the leadership's attitude and position quite well. They will tell the rank and file that Jehovah would never allow the organization to suffer at the hands of 'Satan and his agents' and the best thing to do is to carry on as always.

Quendi

59

I Called the Headquarters About the "Slaughter of Apostates" Quote

by DT in

jw
friends

in case you haven't heard, the november 15, 2011 watchtower, page 5 made this comment.

"today, no servant of jehovah uses physical force against opponents of pureworship.

"vengeance is mine," god says.

Quendi

I will be following this thread with great interest. Thanks again, DT, for sharing.

Quendi

21

Critique of the October 1 Watchtower article"When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?"

by Doug Mason in

my critique of the october 1, 2011 watchtower article "when was ancient jerusalem destroyed?

http://www.jwstudies.com/critique_of_when_was_ancient_jerusalem_destroyed.pdf .

i am looking forward to hearing of correction or omissions.. please note that this is a large file (almost 7 meg) which takes a while to download and a while to format in a web browser.. the design of the critique allows a single major topic to be individually printed, so that those pages may be handed to an apologist for the watchtower society.

Quendi

Bookmarked for future reference, and thanks very much, Doug, for your research into this.

Quendi

78

Do you sense that the Watchtower will implode?

by AK - Jeff in

since leaving the organization 8 years ago, there have been more significant changes in the actual, physical activities of the organization than occurred in all the 40 plus years i was 'in'.

bethel closings.

bethel layoffs.

Quendi

Great analysis, Randy. I think that all of us who have posted on this thread agree that the WTS today faces a crisis. We may not be sure what the end result will be. Some of us think it is doomed while others believe it will survive, albeit in an altered form. But whatever betides, the WTS we knew from the twentieth century is gone. If anything emerges to continue the religion in this century, it will have to adapt to reality or become extinct. I know that all of us who have posted here earnestly hope it is the latter that will take place, the sooner the better.

Quendi

78

Do you sense that the Watchtower will implode?

by AK - Jeff in

since leaving the organization 8 years ago, there have been more significant changes in the actual, physical activities of the organization than occurred in all the 40 plus years i was 'in'.

bethel closings.

bethel layoffs.

Quendi

My apologies for reposting this. I initially put this on a thread our friend CoCo created, but I think it is germane to the discussion here. The point CoCo raised was about 2014 and the approaching hundredth anniversary of the end of the Gentile Times:

My understanding from talking to some still attached to the organization is that talk of the approaching hundredth anniversary is generating considerable angst among many Jehovah's Witnesses. The Society itself is circumspect this time as opposed to its drum beating as 1975 approached. That doesn't mean the leadership is unaware of all the talk. Rather it appears that it hopes that by remaining silent, the buzz will die down and 2014 will come and go without any significant impact on growth and preaching.

I think that right now a siege mentality has taken hold in Brooklyn. The Governing Body is acting as if it is encircled by enemies. Its constant rantings and ravings against apostates and apostasy are like nothing I heard and read when I was an active and zealous publisher. Yes, the natives are growing restless and the response from the top has been classic as well as predictable. Haven't we seen this all before, especially in the political arena? A dictator faces calls for significant reforms, relaxation of controls, and a new direction for the country. His response is to crack down on dissent, jail opponents, drive other resisters into exile, and kill the more vocal and recalcitrant of his critics. The WTS and its Governing Body have done likewise, albeit in a metaphysical way.

Eventually, the dictator is overthrown despite his best efforts to remain in power. Sometimes he escapes with his life; but there are many instances in which he loses that violently. I don't know what will happen to the WTS leadership, but I believe that the organization is facing its greatest crisis since the death of Charles Taze Russell in 1916. Despite massive defections and the jailing of its Board of Directors that followed Russell's death, the organization not only survived, but thrived. It faced down the Nazi tyrants in Germany and outlasted the communist despots of the Soviet Union. It managed to overcome the bad publicity of its failed prophecies for the twentieth century to enter the twenty-first century intact.

What makes today's situation different, I believe, is that the current leadership is composed of men who do not have the qualities needed to navigate past the shoals and reefs the organization must negotiate to reach safer waters. Past leaders were charismatic, tough-minded, or great organizers. Nobody like that is in charge now. And there remains the simple fact that just as in the past, there is no divine backing for the Society's mission. Without the kind of leadership that served it so well in the past, the current Governing Body is ill-equipped to function in an environment that is as fluid, dynamic, and technilogically challenging as this one. Hence the falling back on the method of cracking down on dissent and the suppression of any kind of challenge.

Maybe the organization will manage to survive. But I think that what is more likely is that we will see some kind of collapse, particularly in the developed world. I won't speculate on what that will mean for the organization as a whole, but I don't think it can survive as it is presently constituted.

Quendi