Posts by lauralisa

16

The other perspective

by silentlambs in

jw
friends

i recieved this email today.

i certainly shows another perspective.. how would you respond?.

silentlambs .

My immediate response to this person's alleged experience is that he/she must be either related to someone in a position of extremely high visibility and ties to the society, or is in such a position him/herself.

What is described certainly indicates preferential treatment. In all of the stories I have read or have heard personally, it is extremely unique.

QUIT FEELING LIKE THE VICTIM AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIVES

As to this remark, I can only imagine it coming from a person who has been trained very well to supress, deny, or transfer a typical "normal" emotional response to injustice, violence, and especially abuses of power. Unfortunately, the price one pays for intentionally ignoring their feelings and responses in one area because those particular feelings are intolerable is that they must also become numb in all other ways; I wonder if this person is capable of intimacy, joy, or empathy.

The calculated and callous disregard for the difficulties endured by thousands of other

survivors

can be indicative of someone who goes on to perpetrate others.

I'd be grateful, Bill, if you post your response to this person on the board.... and my heart goes out to you for being a safe voice.

Thank you

lauralisa

3

Abandoned JW Attempts Suicide

by MadApostate in

jw
friends

this 1997 news article well illustrates that "jehovah's earthly organization" has neither the will nor established procedure to assist jws that genuinely need help beyond what they could ever repay to the borg, either $$$$ or in human capital.. people who are no longer an asset to the borg are forgotten and abandoned.. .

as a jw you are worth only as much as your last and next fs report.

yun ja kim's story.

lauralisa

termite 35, no offense meant, please... but

as the society lurks here ,no doubt they'll send her some monies to help with rehab and bills. At least she has someone willing to help her

I DON'T THINK SO

I'm sure they would rather have her dead and "safe" (whatever) in "Jehovah's memory" than having to be in the position of actually being in any way OBLIGATED to helping her in any way. They only "help" people who assist in promoting their agenda, and then, ONLY if it promotes said agenda in a positive direction. In the best of cases, their "help" consists of someone bringing maybe a dinner or two over to someone's house.

Mental illness (and its incapcitating side effects) is an arena in which the WTBTS has absolutely, completely, tragically intruded; they would deny such a thing but their demands on any individual who wishes to become a jehovah's witness are such that it intrudes upon one's ability to get competent medical help or to live in a manner which accommodates their 'limitations'. One is constantly pushed to conform to some kind of 'acceptably spiritual' performance. Some people will NEVER, no matter how hard they try, have the ability to live up to such a thing.

Since "spirituality" is defined by the borg in terms of performance, individuals who suffer from mental illness usually have difficult issues with "status" within the congregation; of course there are issues with poor self-esteem. And again, since "Jehovah" will meet ALL of their needs, seeking help outside of the organization is not looked favorably upon.

Individuals who are mentally ill, who have no relatives within their congregations, are not 'pioneers' or super-achievers, who have no prospects of being involved famililially with other members, who do not come into the 'truth' with multi-language capabilities or nobel prize winning expertise, etc. are simply future case histories in loss and tragedy such as the person described in this scenario.

I know.

I hate what has happened to this person.

I hate the Watchtower Bible and tract society of new york, NY, and would be happy to see them melt down in disgrace.

lauralisa

1

Essex, Maryland-- Winchester, Virginia

by SoulJah in

jw
friends

any one out there attend the essex cong between 1972 - 1988. or the winchester cong between 1985 - 1990?.

post here or e-mail me.

thanks , mike

lauralisa

Neither of those individual congregations, Mike, but since I've lived in both northern VA and Baltimore, I've been to a lot inbetween.

lauralisa

15

trouble for my friend

by Mulan in

jw
friends

i have posted many times about my jw friend, who still talks to me.

for years we have maintained our friendship, because i have never been df'd or da'd.. she called me this morning to tell me that her husband is being called in for a meeting, by the elders, to discuss her association with me.

we are wondering, now, if a lurker on this board has turned her in.

lauralisa

Hi Marilyn,

The other night my significant other and I were so bored that we watched the movie "Titanic".

When it came to the part where they were beginning to climb onto the lifeboats, I had a strikingly weird moment!!!

It was when Rose's mother (the upperclass, simpering void of a person who felt entitled to whatever) expressed concern over whether the lifeboats were going to be "seated according to class". She shuddered with repugnance and horror at the mere thought of having to endure proximity to a steerage passenger - before graciously planting her butt into the first boat.

What struck me was the similarity between her behavior and that of a typical jw (usually an appearance-obsessed wannabe, at least that is my experience) who has to "associate" with a "worldly person". They don't want their precious social standing to be besmirched. Hardline "shunners" who ostensibly wish to protect their "spirituality" have displayed demeanors identical to what I saw onscreen. I realized it was just another form of bigotry.

Hope things turn out somewhat comfortably for your friend, and for you as well.

I don't even want to start THINKING about the issue of their calling in her husband first..... arrrgghhhhrhg

lauralisa

31

This web site, your comments as evidence

by joelbear in

jw
friends

in the case of silent lambs versus the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.. did you ever think that discussing these cases here accompanied by your vitriole against all things watchtower could be used to:.

1. show that ex jehovahs witnesses harbor such a hatred for the watchtower society that they will say anything to discredit them.. 2. show that there is a network of ex jehovahs witnesses that may have helped to create these abuse accusations in the alledged victims' minds or at least have encouraged them, even unwittingly, to exaggerate their claims.. i guarantee you that the watchtower society has documented every word anyone here has said, especially on this issue.

i can easily see a defense team using it to, if not exonerate accused molesters and the watchtower society, to at least create a reasonable doubt regarding their guilt.. if your hatred of the watchtower causes you to join in irrational behavior and accusations, you have to contemplate the fact that you may be adding to the future grief of any real victims.. i present this for your thoughtful consideration.. as always, i wish all here peace.. joel

lauralisa

JanH!

Thanks for making me smile... I loved your illustration. What I know about math I can count on all six fingers on one hand. Even so, I am endlessly facsinated by numbers; they can be so useful when used to define a single value, and that they can represent an "absolute".

The really interesting part is what happens when someone tries to utilize numbers as "tools" so to speak, in order to explore the unknown, and how uncooperatively they behave if they're not in the mood. I used to be just blown away by some of the stuff my Einsteinesque ex-husband used to wrestle with: page upon page of martian hieroglyphics. (Sometimes I'd see a "5" or a "7" and it would be really exciting)

He would explain to me, patient with my blondness and proclivity to repeat the word "why?, how after a certain point, numbers defy logic; mix enough of them together and math becomes theoretical and hypothetical and (he was loathe to use the term!) even metaphysical. Yet, he continues pushing the limits of those numbers to this day.

Thank you for keeping it lighthearted, and yes I was trying to make an analogy between math and "real life". It strikes me that when numbers are messy in their irrationality, human beings are so much more messy......exponentially messier times infinity times eleven, especially on days that have an "r" in them.

May your rationale be well,

lauralisa

31

This web site, your comments as evidence

by joelbear in

jw
friends

in the case of silent lambs versus the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.. did you ever think that discussing these cases here accompanied by your vitriole against all things watchtower could be used to:.

1. show that ex jehovahs witnesses harbor such a hatred for the watchtower society that they will say anything to discredit them.. 2. show that there is a network of ex jehovahs witnesses that may have helped to create these abuse accusations in the alledged victims' minds or at least have encouraged them, even unwittingly, to exaggerate their claims.. i guarantee you that the watchtower society has documented every word anyone here has said, especially on this issue.

i can easily see a defense team using it to, if not exonerate accused molesters and the watchtower society, to at least create a reasonable doubt regarding their guilt.. if your hatred of the watchtower causes you to join in irrational behavior and accusations, you have to contemplate the fact that you may be adding to the future grief of any real victims.. i present this for your thoughtful consideration.. as always, i wish all here peace.. joel

lauralisa

Joel, can you remember the sentiments which compelled you to post the following... and what has happened to you???? You don't know me, but I'm concerned about your well-being and am wondering -and confused - about what could possibly illicit such a departure of character and change of heart. (I also know you have no obligation whatsoever to reveal anything of a personal nature about yourself on this board and respect any choice you make with regard to furthering this discussion. My e-mail is open, however, if you are so inclined)

The enemy is the control Dec 15, 2001 16:29
Waiting for the demise of the Watchtower Society?
Don't hold your breath.
Even if it collapsed tomorrow, its followers would simply find something else to follow, because, they are followers.
The enemy of life and happiness is the inability to freely live and be happy.
We see clearly, that many of our friends here are still struggling with unhappiness and depression, including myself at times, even years after not being witnesses.
Some look to their years of being witnesses as the reason for their unhappiness. I do not discount these feelings.
However, for myself, I wish to look at the things I can change about myself that will make me happier.
The enemy is the control we allow negative thoughts (including but not exclusive to those we picked up or developed from being witnesses)to have over our lives.
take care
Joel

(subsequent responses to your thread:)

I love your posts, Joel. What a great pep talk! You need to go tour on the seminar circuit! I would be the first to sign up! (Ha! Ha!)
more2C
----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Joel, I have often thought about the proliferation of cult groups in the United States from the 19th century especially. If people are vulnerable and looking for "cookie cutter" answers, there will always be some spiritual charlatan to give them what they want.
I love living with uncertainty, ambiguity, without a security blanket, something I never dreamed I would. Here's to freedom!
Regards,
Mum
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hey Joel,Sometimes you make some pretty thoughtful cool posts.This is one of them...OUTLAW
The Golden Rule:The people with the gold make the rules.

In another thread entitled "Conrol Tactics", you stated:

I posted in another thread that the control tactics are probably ones of the things we look back on with a range of sadness to anger. Here are a short list of control tactics I found harmful as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and whose wounds I still need healing from.
1. Shunning
Clearly the most destructive control tactic. Threatening to take away a person's emotional, mental and sometimes physical support network is the ultimate in psychological blackmail. Think as I think and do as I say or be prepared to face the world alone. I shudder to think of the harm this has caused.
2. End time threats
I rank this a close 2nd to shunning in its destructive capabilities to someone's life. It has the power to cripple a person's mind, stealing their dreams and putting them in a box to await some future time period when they can open the box and look upon their dreams again. Think of the millions of life decisions made on the basis of "the end is almost upon us."
3. Manipulation by marking
As we know, the idea of behavior modification through peer pressure is widespread among witnesses. Don't go out in service enough, then you don't get invited to get togethers. Attend a questionable movie, don't get called on at the Watchtower study, etc. Similar in its insidiousness to shunning is the constant evaluation of your worth based on viewed behavior with feedback ranging from loss of participation to public humiliation.
I'm sure there are others than could be listed but these are the 3 that came to my mind. All 3 have left their mark on my soul.
Joel

I loved this thread, and replied back, hoping for more dialogue from you:

Re: Control Tactics Dec 11, 2001 12:19
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Joelbear,
Another one that I know is experienced by a huge number of people:
Being taught that you are an invalid life form
Although the borg has written about the fact that some souls find that they have different sexual orientations, those individuals cannot practice behaviors that FEEL NORMAL to them and still be found acceptable. They must live a life of continual denial of their needs, sacrificing most things that provide "quality of life" - i.e. a mate, self-honesty, self-acceptance, love, sexual gratification, companionship....
To remain "safe" within the congregations, one's choices are:
Live your entire life in denial of what your true nature is in order to be categorized as "salvageable" and worthy of Jehovah's approval
Believing that you are a freak of nature - a victim of inherited genetic "imperfection"
Keeping your inner world secret from everyone you are acquainted with, or risk being categorized as "bad association" or as you put it, "marked"; such a choice means one lives in constant fear and anxiety of everything they do and say
Kind of a high price to pay to remain in the confines of an organization with serious credibility issues in and of itself.
The list of mental, physical and even social "orientations" is too long to even try and define, but can be substituted for sexual orientation in the above no-win situation....
Thank you for an interesting topic.
lauralisa

If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off

Edited to get all those forum code mistakes corrected DOH

31

This web site, your comments as evidence

by joelbear in

jw
friends

in the case of silent lambs versus the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.. did you ever think that discussing these cases here accompanied by your vitriole against all things watchtower could be used to:.

1. show that ex jehovahs witnesses harbor such a hatred for the watchtower society that they will say anything to discredit them.. 2. show that there is a network of ex jehovahs witnesses that may have helped to create these abuse accusations in the alledged victims' minds or at least have encouraged them, even unwittingly, to exaggerate their claims.. i guarantee you that the watchtower society has documented every word anyone here has said, especially on this issue.

i can easily see a defense team using it to, if not exonerate accused molesters and the watchtower society, to at least create a reasonable doubt regarding their guilt.. if your hatred of the watchtower causes you to join in irrational behavior and accusations, you have to contemplate the fact that you may be adding to the future grief of any real victims.. i present this for your thoughtful consideration.. as always, i wish all here peace.. joel

lauralisa

Hey Joel,

Rationality is a wonderful thing! How can one not love it?

It doesn't exist in real life, however. It is a concept and a principle which may or may NOT help in the organization of thoughts.

Cute Math analogy:

Numbers are finite entities and are easily managed in a typical rational argument. Unless, of course, they are not rational. Mathematic applications can get complicated, and to accommodate these unwieldy irrational 'values', there exists MANY symbols to represent irrational numbers... (my personal fav: imaginary numbers (i.) Even then - especially then (!) they are an essential part of the equation. Even though they are pesky and interfere with a nice, definitive, balanced, reproducible and correct solution, AN HONEST THEORETICAL MATHEMATICIAN WILL NOT DENY THE EXISTENCE OF THE IRRATIONAL BECAUSE IT IS A PAIN IN THE BUTT.

Advanced theoretical math is not facsinating for everyone! It is not usually very interesting to those who aren't "into" math. Only a certain few individuals possess the unique temperment required to seek and conquer irrational numbers - or to pursue for decades solutions for equations that SHOULD WORK under their confines but remain taunting and defiant. One physicist I know swears that some of these irrational numbers actually stick out their tongues at him and say "nah-nah nah nah-nah" in the middle of the night.

"Rational" is great, Joel, but does not trump "irrational" in problematic morality issues.

What's up with you? You started a thread about a month ago which was very poignant, having to do with ... oh, I'll just try and find it and repost it here. What could be so currently horrifying that you'd look back towards the borg as if it were a "safe" place??????????

lauralisa

31

This web site, your comments as evidence

by joelbear in

jw
friends

in the case of silent lambs versus the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.. did you ever think that discussing these cases here accompanied by your vitriole against all things watchtower could be used to:.

1. show that ex jehovahs witnesses harbor such a hatred for the watchtower society that they will say anything to discredit them.. 2. show that there is a network of ex jehovahs witnesses that may have helped to create these abuse accusations in the alledged victims' minds or at least have encouraged them, even unwittingly, to exaggerate their claims.. i guarantee you that the watchtower society has documented every word anyone here has said, especially on this issue.

i can easily see a defense team using it to, if not exonerate accused molesters and the watchtower society, to at least create a reasonable doubt regarding their guilt.. if your hatred of the watchtower causes you to join in irrational behavior and accusations, you have to contemplate the fact that you may be adding to the future grief of any real victims.. i present this for your thoughtful consideration.. as always, i wish all here peace.. joel

lauralisa

Joel,

I follow your reasoning easily.

The fact remains however:

There ARE uncountable numbers of victims and survivors who need help;

Child abuse, including pedophilia, IS practiced among jw's, and is NOT adequately addressed by its governing body - in fact they seem to operate under the assumption that BECAUSE THEY ARE A "RELIGION", they are exempt from the confines of the civil laws that currently exist and do not give victims OR perpetrators their DUE PROCESS;

Recovery for a survivor of abuse is NOT found in a forensics-dependent courtroom.

There are two completely separate issues here, Joel: addressing the therapeutic needs of a survivor of abuse AND addressing the criminal behavior that has existed among a small percentage of twisted jw members in "good standing".

What would YOU suggest as alternative approaches to if not the first, then perhaps the second issue?

Silentlambs is NOT the first "forum" that has tried to help survivors of abuse- and in their efforts has been staggered by the damage caused and the alarming prevalence of such things, which prompts most sane people to try and effect change. Bringing dark issues to light has never been popular.

What is your motive in pointing out the obvious in your initial post? You don't have to get involved. There are many other things to do with your time.

Why would you try and interfere or undermine Silentlambs' efforts? It's not perfect but is at times I'm sure a life-saving resource for jw's and ex-jw's who need help.

The only way to get all those whiney, attention-sucking lying pathetic abuse-surviving losers who screw up everyone's reality to SHUT UP is to stop the perpetrators and those who protect them.

lauralisa

8

South Park

by gilwarrior in

i feel that most of what is on television is crap.

usually i only watch movies or documentaries.

however, the one television i enjoy is "south park.

lauralisa

What incredible irony!!!

What would Brian Boitano do?

9

Argentina? New victim of the "thing disgus...

by enricofrassinetti in

jw
friends

economy of all the world are in danger.. another victim of the "thing disgusting that is causing desolation", is the argentina.. yes.. the wild beast, with his economic system, would want have all his slaves, with the debt cards "forcing self-debit".. around the world, this is his project.. mens of the beast, would want give a number code, fixed to all people of the world, for be marked with his invisible mark 666, because the monetary crash is very very near.. the coins of all the nations of the world, proximately, will be eliminated, because his intrinsic value cease with the crash of the world production.. one international recession, is causing all this .

(revelation 16:2).. the bar-code is his precursor, but proximately, the possibility of eat and drink, will be possible only for his possessors.. only method for christian survival,without accept his mark 666,is to escape from it, giving power to another economic system with our electronic international coin.. jehovah's witnesses,those real,are ready for to go against his project.. from italy we are preparing the bases for this.. in 23 nations we are present with the society www.thealphaclub.com, but proximately, will be ready all our project for redistribution of the wealth and of the income, denominated (alpha & omega).. if do you desire, visit our web site www.testimonidigeova.org

lauralisa

Pass it over to me!