Isidore

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Posts by Isidore

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  306

  I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.

  these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".

  they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.

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• 

  Isidore

  "has it ever occurred to you that your "truth" doesn't work for everyone?"

  Ah, the classic Relativsim response.

  Relativism, of course, is self-refuting. I'm reminded of the statement in the book Situation Ethics where the author says that we should avoid absolutes like the plague. Which of course he holds as absolutely true. Relativists tell us that we should be relative all the time, and only a position that teaches that truth is relative is a correct position. They are telling us with a straight face that ‘all truth is relative' which is really saying ‘it is absolutely true that all truth is relative.' Of course, what they mean is that all of the other person's truth is relative, but their own position should be held by all people everywhere. They hold truth as relative, except for their own values about truth, which cannot be challenged. If we say to them that we believe the opposite of what they believe, they respond with a combination of indignation and disbelief.

  In reality, all truth, if it is true, is absolute, and true for all people everywhere. If you challenge this, I ask you this: Is the opposite of your position false, or is it true also?
• 
  306

  I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.

  these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".

  they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Isidore

  "It's a dirty, low thing to do for the Catholic Church to continue its subversive activity in every way possible and now even to extend its propaganda to Protestant children evacuated from the regions threatened by air raids. Next to the Jews these politico-divines are about the most loathsome riffraff that we are still sheltering in the Reich. The time will come after the war for an over-all solution of this problem." Joseph Goebbels's diary, 26 March 1942 (Lochner, The Goebbels Diaries, 1948, p. 146)"

  Apparently, people have bought into modern "Goebbel's" special brand of propaganda, history revisionism.....

  A sample of the Jewish testimonies:

  "We share in the grief of humanity [at the death of Pius XII].... When fearful martyrdom came to our people in the decade of Nazi terror, the voice of the pope was raised for the victims. The life of our times was enriched by a voice speaking out on the great moral truths above the tumult of daily conflict. We mourn a great servant of peace."

  ~ Golda Meir

  "No keener rebuke has come to Nazism than from Pope Pius XI and his successor, Pope Pius XII."

  ~ Rabbi Louis Finkelstein, chancellor, Jewish Theological Seminary of America

  "In the most difficult hours of which we Jews of Romania have passed through, the generous assistance of the Holy See...was decisive and salutary. It is not easy for us to find the right words to express the warmth and consolation we experienced because of the concern of the supreme pontiff, who offered a large sum to relieve the sufferings of deported Jews.... The Jews of Romania will never forget these facts of historic importance."

  ~ Rabbi Alexander Safran, chief rabbi of Romania

  "The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion, which form the very foundation of true civilization, are doing for our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world."

  ~ Rabbi Isaac Herzog, chief rabbi of Israel

  "I told [Pope Pius XII] that my first duty was to thank him, and through him the Catholic Church, on behalf of the Jewish public for all they had done in the various countries to rescue Jews.... We are deeply grateful to the Catholic Church."

  ~ Moshe Sharett (who later became Israel's first foreign minister and second prime minister)

  July 25, 2005

  So now that you have been shown by the Jews themselves what they thought of Pius XII and his actions, let's move on.
• 
  306

  I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.

  these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".

  they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Isidore

  "How are you going to throw "National Socialism's paganism" into the mix with Atheists? Weren't Facists/Nazis and Communits enemies? Didn't the Catholics lend support toe the National Socialists? Quit reaching."

  How about quit ignoring actions of how the Church saved hundreds of thousands of lives during WWII?

  I will repeat what I said earlier to the same rhetoric that comes up from people that bring up this same tired argument.

  Pope Pius XII saved 800,000 Jewish lives, hiding Jews in monasteries, convents, and inside the Vatican itself; that he got to the Jews money for travel; that he issued fake baptismal certificates so they could pass as Christian; that he was praised by Jews at the end of the war (by everyone from Golda Meir to the Communist Albert Einstein) as a "righteous gentile"; that his was called by the New York Times the only voice among the silence on the topic of the Jewish persecutions; that the Chief Rabbi of Rome was so impressed by this Pope's holiness and heroism toward his fellow Hebrewsthat he took his name when he converted to Catholicism -- these things have been written about by people much more talented than I. Remember that ignored in the singular focus on the tragedy of the Jewish "holocaust" is the destruction of Christians that took place simultaneously: not only were Catholics also murdered by Nazis (3,000,000 in Poland alone!), but, at the same time, 15 million Christians were being murdered by our ally, "Uncle Joe" Stalin, much-beloved by FDR, American liberals, and American media. Where are the outrage, the memorials in every major American city, the Hollywood movies, the PBS specials, the "Christian 'holocaust' education programs" in public schools, the slogans, the defense leagues, the apologies for them? Where's even a mention of it in the typical American High School textbook? Why "the silence"? And why the double standard?

  And as you read all this, for the love of all that is Holy, realize that Pope Pius XII was in between a rock and a hard place. He was in Vatican City, surrounded by Rome, in the middle of Mussolini's fascist Italy. On one side of him he had Communism, which was slaughtering Christians in astronomical numbers, a movement led predominantly by Jews, and on whose side the Allies entered the war. On the other side of him, he had pagan racist Nazism that was, in part, a reaction against Communism, but which was just as anti-Christian. He was against both of these evil idealogies (see his Encyclical Summa Pontificatus below) but was hardly in a position to do much about either in a hugely public way without increasing the slaughter of both Jews and Christians. The great and holy Pius XII did what he humanly could, as publicly as possible, and most powerfully and effectively behind the scenes. The world knew this during and after the war; it has forgotten since the ascendancy of cultural Marxism that has changed our culture to one that is thoroughly anti-Christian -- most especially anti-Catholic.

  So Diest, what you have Pius XII do? "Send in his armies??" His actions, actions, spoke louder than words. He was lauded by the Jewish community for actions, not empty words.
• 
  306

  I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.

  these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".

  they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Isidore

  If the Catholic Church was as perfect as it detractors would have it to be, they themsleves would not be allowed in it. It is because it has sinners that it has a place for you and for me.

  I think all of us on this forum (most especially myself!) are sinners. Christ came for sinners. He never promised that no one would ever sin in His Church. It amazes me how people will point to the few that have grossly sinned and ignore the overwhelming amount of saintly poeple that it has produced, as if it is a all or nothing, zero sum exercise.
• 
  183

  By What Authority?

  by Orthodox1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the jws, catholics, mormons, and a handful of others say they are the "true church" or what jesus originally intended.

  i know jws call themselves the "true christians".

  by what authority - outside of the bible, since 41,000 denominations use the bible to back up their individual beliefs - can jws make this claim?

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• 

  Isidore

  "I would submit to you to take a stab and read St. Thomas Aquinas. But I warn you, his writings have converted many a militant atheists.

  got some proof of that?"

  Still Thinking, I apologize for the delay. Been very busy. Here's a link for what you requested.

  http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2012/07/road-from-atheism.html
• 
  306

  I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.

  these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".

  they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Isidore

  "What for? I've nothing to prove to them, or you. I gave an opinion, sorry if it bothers your ego. Well, not really sorry, lol

  You on the other hand, seem to have an agenda here..."

  Ego not bothered at all. Not all will hear Christ's voice. I do have an agenda. You are a child of God, and as such, I love you.
• 
  306

  I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.

  these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".

  they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Isidore

  "No catholics around here; we feed 'em to the wolves, lol.

  Why don't you come over to Catholic chat forums and lock horns with doctors in philosophy and systematic theology. Perhaps they would prove to be worthy of your intellect (?). They'll never have to even bring up the bible......
• 
  183

  By What Authority?

  by Orthodox1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the jws, catholics, mormons, and a handful of others say they are the "true church" or what jesus originally intended.

  i know jws call themselves the "true christians".

  by what authority - outside of the bible, since 41,000 denominations use the bible to back up their individual beliefs - can jws make this claim?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Isidore

  "No actually a hedge-my-bet atheist based upon rational logic and reasoning."

  I respect atheists. They at least adhere to a system of "belief". Agnostics are just cowards that won't commit to anything.

  My belief in Catholicism is also based on rational thought and reasoning. Which is why it's systematic theology is so coherent. I would submit to you to take a stab and read St. Thomas Aquinas. But I warn you, his writings have converted many a militant atheists.
• 
  306

  I Believe Catholicism And Its Trappings Are Silly, Strange & Weird!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my italian friend loves going to the "feasts" that occur in italy, boston or nyc.

  these feasts feature a "saint" with dollar bills pinned around her and they parade the saint in a long procession and chant "viva (whomever)".

  they are quite serious about this and are proud to talk about the past generations of observers who appreciated the events.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Isidore

  Isidore, it's not important to me that Rome stay part of the Orthodox Church or that the Anglican church stays part of the Orthodox Church. What is important is that the RC claims they are the trunk of the tree, when really they are the first branch. I mean, it's not seriously important, it's just something I didn't know until one of my Anglican priest friends told me and I looked into it.

  This is a fairly reply by Anglican who try to rationalize that they are still part of the Apostolic succession. Of course a non-Catholic is going to amke this assertion. To do otherwise would give them a real intellectual dilemma.

  The Roman church eventually set up their bishop as Pope of their church. It's true that you do learn something new everyday.

  Did you bother to read the numerous accounts of Eastern (Orthodox) bishops that I cited above? Obviously not, because they debunk your revisionism history.

  The Episcopal Church has an open communion policy. The RC does not. So, unless I have a reason to attend the RC masses, I don't usually attend them. The Orthodox Church would be too much for me. They mix their wine with the bread and they serve it to everyone off the same spoon. They also have a closed communion.

  By receiving Communion, you are publically professing that you believe and and adhere to ALL of the teachigs of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Since you obviously don't, thank goodness you have not been given Holy Communion in the Catholic Church.

  1 Corinthians 11

  For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
• 
  183

  By What Authority?

  by Orthodox1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the jws, catholics, mormons, and a handful of others say they are the "true church" or what jesus originally intended.

  i know jws call themselves the "true christians".

  by what authority - outside of the bible, since 41,000 denominations use the bible to back up their individual beliefs - can jws make this claim?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Isidore

  "Organized religion is an agreed to set of lies, it really comes down to whether or not your a supporting participant of that established agreement."

  By this statement, by default, you must believe in disorganized religion. Are you a hedge-my-bet agnostic?