ok, well, I guess I don't have a Christian view then. I think there are requirements that God may place on people in order to be Forgiven but I don't think that a human, in order to forgive another human always requires that. In fact I know they don't. Forgiveness in a general, human sense is just to let go of negative feelings toward the person.
Posts by bafh
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111"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?
by cofty inthe children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.
he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.
if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.
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111
"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?
by cofty inthe children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.
he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.
if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.
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bafh
Hmm. I'm not sure what to do with your response Crofty. You don't stay on point, address my questions or offer an alternate view (for example, what do you think forgiveness looks like?). You simply repeat yourself over and over as if that is argument enough.
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111
"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?
by cofty inthe children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.
he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.
if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.
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bafh
Yes, I have a Christian view, but not necessarily a JW view. Jesus forgiveness of sins and subsequent healing of individuals did not require much. In fact, there was a "prescribed way" of doing things - the Jewish Law - that Jesus was the fulfillment of. I don't think as humans we have much insight into what God requires of any one person in order to be forgiven. Even the slightest turn to repentance might suffice.
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111
"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?
by cofty inthe children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.
he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.
if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.
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bafh
Yes, it is a Christian view. I think it is a misnomer to believe that Christian forgiveness somehow means there are no consequences for actions. Didn't Jesus forgive the sinner on the cross? The sinner was forgiven, and yet still died. The scripture says, "the wages sin pays in death" - that is the consequence. And yet, God resurrects and forgives.
maybe the confusion here is the word consequence - it could easily be replaced with "result". Your actions create results. Those results are independent of anyone's forgiveness of the harm your actions caused.
It could be something simple like - I tell my friend something in confidence. They don't keep it. I'm hurt, but I forgive them and we stay friends. The consequence is that I do not tell them confidential information. If it was a repeated pattern or something else very serious, then maybe I choose not to be friends with them any longer. That does not mean I don't forgive them.
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16
Synthetic Blood in 2 Years? How Will the GB Shoot This Down?
by DarioKehl ininteresting read.
if they already allow "fractions," there's no way they can ban this.. here:www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-to-give-volunteers-synthetic-blood-made-in-a-laboratory-within-two-years-10343279.html.
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bafh
When I read this, it seems they are using stem cells to make red blood cells. So technically, they are "manufactured" in that they came from a lab - but they are still blood cells. So my vote is they don't allow it even if it didn't come from a person or animal. -
111
"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?
by cofty inthe children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.
he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.
if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.
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bafh
It was not an attack, it is my opinion of the qualities that you are presenting in your argument. I happen to think that your opinion is narrow, immature and petty. That isn't a personal attack on you. It is you presenting a very black and white world view that is dogmatic and rigid.
I did engage in mature conversation. My question is "what right do you have or any of us have to judge?" has not yet been addressed. and you throw out an example of how a parent would interact with a child which is not relevant to the event being discussed.
No. You either punish or you forgive. Or you punish and then you forgive.
You seem pretty stuck on this point - that it is one or the other - but then contradict yourself and are dogmatic about what the "right" order is. What do you base this on?
In my world, there is forgiveness and consequences. They are not mutually exclusive or even remotely related to another, and are not required to be done in any particular order.
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111
"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?
by cofty inthe children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.
he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.
if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.
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bafh
ok. well, I guess I don't agree with your assessment. What right do you or any of us have have to judge? None from my point of view. Doing so just makes you appear immature, small minded and petty.
You seem very dogmatic and rigid. Life must be so much easier in black and white.
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called the service department asked him how are shunned one viewed
by poopie inare they still jehovahs sheep he chuckles no i said then what are they he said i dont know next question from him what congregation do you attend so i laughed and said why do you want to know ha ha
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bafh
Doesn't that contradict their recent article with the "lost sheep" illustration? -
111
"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?
by cofty inthe children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.
he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.
if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.
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bafh
I think what has irritated me about this is that it isn't authentic.
Here we have adult children of a murder victim saying they already forgive the murderer of their parent less than 24 hours after the event. The murderer is still filled with hate and has expressed no regret.
There is nothing authentic about this. It is a pre-programmed reaction. They are performing for the watching world.Really, who are you to judge how these people feel? Talk about a high horse. You may not be capable of forgiveness as swiftly, but that does not make their ability to do so any less real.
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111
"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?
by cofty inthe children of one of yesterday's shooting have told the media that they have already forgiven the killer for what he did.. dylaan roof has not apologised for what he did.
he hates black people and probably regrets not killing even more.. what does it really mean to forgive?.
if the legal system asked the victims relatives what they want done next would they ask for dylaan to go free and unpunished?.
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bafh
Parents don't say that - but they do forgive their child and send them to their room, or put them in time out, or any number of punishments.
Forgiveness does not require that there be no restitution. Even in the Old Testament, there was a process laid out to restore what had been taken, or damaged that allowed for the individual to remain part of the community. For example, If something was stolen, it had to be repaid 7 times as much.
the individual was forgiven, and there were consequences.
You are referring to an event that happened in a modern, western world. And the consequences for this type of action have been established in law by the citizens. A jury of his peers found him guilty, and he was ordered to pay for the murders he committed with his life.
What would you prefer the outcome to be?