I was 16 and consider it coersion because the peer and family pressure was so intense. It was not a "choice" since not getting baptized was NOT an option.
Posts by bafh
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40WT Study 1/10/16 Encouraging Child Baptism And More Nonsense
by JW_Rogue ini've noticed that each wt lesson really only has one or two points they want remembered.
normally they build up to these by about the third subheading.
this week's lesson though was different, the main point was insidiously made through an experience in the first paragraph:.
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New WT pdf tells children to report. Irony?
by wifibandit inpdf.
why won't watchtower tell abusers "i'm going to tell on you!
" and follow through with the proper authorities?
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bafh
If they tell, what will be done? Nothing. So what is the point?
This is purely a CYA move in all respects.
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Why does it seem to be unhappy people who are attracted to the JWs?
by new boy ini have had time to think about this........... i was an attendent for many years.......... and looking up and down the rows at every family that was seating there in the khs........... no one was happy!.
i think of my mother (who brought this religion into our house)......she was one of the most unhappy and miserable people you would ever meet!
she was a spiritual orphan with few friends and no real family to speak of.. she got the "good news" back in 1950, that "the world" was a bad place and god, would soon be killing most everyone......she was thrilled!...............
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bafh
In my experience spirituality tends to promote growth, self-awareness, responsibility...religiosity tends to promote dependence, and victimhood.
If you don't want to be responsible for how your life turns out, then religion is the answer because it tells you: 1) whatever bad is happening is not your fault and 2) someone (GOD) is coming to rescue you.
Spiritual people I know who are also religious tend to not hold extreme views of good/evil, right/wrong or to shift the blame to someone else when things don't turn out. They also don't expect that they can just sit on their hands and wait for someone else to rescue them. Instead, they promote the idea that we are all responsible for ourselves, and the community. They look for and see the good in people, and support them to be their better selves. In fact, many of them seem to hold the view that God expects you to live up to your potential.
Especially among JWs, the viewpoint that "this world is so horrible" seems to comfort them because they think the worse it gets, or the worse they perceive it to be - the closer everyone is to having things get better because God is going to wipe it all out and start over. This outlook, I think, accounts for the reason why JWs put everything on hold - I won't __________ until the New System. In the New System, I'll learn to (cook, play music, dance, etc) Understandably then, the majority of their expenditure of time, energy and focus is on "surviving" to the end.
The reason why people are't happy is that their needs aren't being met. I'm a firm believer in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Look at the chart below. Most JWs function on very low levels. In fact, instead of meeting the needs of individuals, the material and organization is structured to invalidate a person's experiences, telling them that meeting their needs is wrong, and that the reason they are unhappy is because something is fundamentally wrong with them (they ARE sinful) and that this "wicked system of things" is stacked against them.
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As I was doing some research related to Maslow, I remembered the account of the Sermon on the Mount. The first thing Jesus did with that crowd was feed them. I've always wondered why he would do that. Then I saw Maslow's chart. Of course, if people's physical needs aren't met -hungry, thirsty, need to pee - they can't sustain attention to more sophisticated needs like spirituality. I don't even know if this story is true, but I think it is very insightful into human nature. If it is true, and it was put there as an instruction - it is even more telling that JWs do not follow this example in any real way - they do not have homeless shelters, food banks, etc. They blantantly ignore the example of the man they proclaim to follow.
Following the organization's lead, a person proves their Christianity by having a hard life. JWs tend to be uneducated and low skilled workers. So they are in fact working harder than people with education and skills because what they can do is less valuable to the marketplace. In this way, their perception becomes their reality. On top of that, they are trained to ignore or devalue any good that may exist in the world - what is accomplished by non-profits, individuals or evidence of basic human good. They focus on and see the bad, ignore the good.
Their need for love and belonging is meet in a community where approval is conditional based on an individual's willingness to replace their own judgment with that of another (parents, elders, the organization). Their need for safety (emotional and sometimes physical) is in jeopardy because if an individual relies on their own judgment they no longer "belong". JWs are discouraged from individuality, self-esteem, or acknowledgement of skills and talents. JWs are not allowed to pursue (at least not openly) the natural process of self-actualization.
It would be nice to see JWs be able to get to a place where they can both acknowledge and promote the good that humans do. I would like to see a system that meets the needs of everyone by doing good for others, demonstrating Christian qualities in their everyday lives to draw people - speaking to the potential they hold instead of condemning them for the wrong they do.
My burning question is: as Christians, why can't we work to accomplish the good we can while we wait for something better? Is this not the example of all the great leaders in history? Mother Theresa, Ghandi, MLK, and even Jesus?
My conclusion is that the reason people are unhappy is that JWs fail to meet the real and current needs of individuals while at the same time holding out a vague, narrow and abstract promise of the opportunity to self-actualize. People are drawn to their own potential, they just don't understand it's right in front of them, even now.
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42
Why does it seem to be unhappy people who are attracted to the JWs?
by new boy ini have had time to think about this........... i was an attendent for many years.......... and looking up and down the rows at every family that was seating there in the khs........... no one was happy!.
i think of my mother (who brought this religion into our house)......she was one of the most unhappy and miserable people you would ever meet!
she was a spiritual orphan with few friends and no real family to speak of.. she got the "good news" back in 1950, that "the world" was a bad place and god, would soon be killing most everyone......she was thrilled!...............
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bafh
Religion is the opiate of the masses. - Karl Marx
In my experience spirituality tends to promote growth, self-awareness, responsibility...religiosity tends to promote dependence, and victimhood.
If you don't want to be responsible for how your life turns out, then religion is the answer because it tells you: 1) whatever bad is happening is not your fault and 2) someone (GOD) is coming to rescue you.
Spiritual people I know who are also religious tend to not hold extreme views of good/evil, right/wrong or to shift the blame to someone else when things don't turn out. They also don't expect that they can just sit on their hands and wait for someone else to rescue them. Instead, they promote the idea that we are all responsible for ourselves, and the community. They look for and see the good in people, and support them to be their better selves. In fact, many of them seem to hold the view that God expects you to live up to your potential.
Especially among JWs, the viewpoint that "this world is so horrible" seems to comfort them because they think the worse it gets, or the worse they perceive it to be - the closer everyone is to having things get better because God is going to wipe it all out and start over. This outlook, I think, accounts for the reason why JWs put everything on hold - I won't __________ until the New System. In the New System, I'll learn to (cook, play music, dance, etc) Understandably then, the majority of their expenditure of time, energy and focus is on "surviving" to the end.
The reason why people are't happy is that their needs aren't being met. I'm a firm believer in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
JWs tend to be uneducated and low skilled workers, so they are in fact working harder than people with education and skills because what they can do is less valuable to the marketplace. In this way, their perception becomes their reality. On top of that, they are trained to ignore or devalue any good that may exist in the world - what is accomplished by non-profits, individuals or evidence of basic human good. They focus on and see the bad, ignore the good.JWs are not allowed to pursue (at least not openly) the natural process of self-actualization.
As I was doing some research related to Maslow, I remembered the account of the Sermon on the Mount. The first thing Jesus did with that crowd was feed them. I've always wondered why he would do that. Then I saw Maslow's chart. Of course, if people's physical needs aren't met -hungry, thirsty, need to pee - they can't sustain attention to meeting more sophisticated needs like spirituality. I don't even know if this story is true, but I think it is very insightful into human nature. If it is true, and it was put there as an instruction - it is even more telling that JWs do not follow this example in any real way - they do not have homeless shelters, food banks, etc. They blantantly ignore the example of the man they proclaim to follow.
It would be nice to see JWs be able to get to a place where they can both acknowledge and promote the good that humans do accomplish while at the same time promoting spirituality based on self-respect, growth and community engagement. It doesn't seem reasonable to me to have the perspective that because the system is broken and we are expecting something better, we can't work to accomplish the good we can while we wait for something better.
It also doesn't seem reasonable to me that a person has to prove their Christianity by having a hard life. In fact, many Christians believe that living a good life - doing good for others, demonstrating Christian qualities in their everyday lives is the way to draw people to the way of life. Not condemning them for the wrong they do but speaking to the potential they hold. I'm afraid that day will never come.
The either/or thinking is childish,limiting and at the crux of everything that is wrong with how JWs operate.
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What are the new songs that people are talking about?
by dogon ini have heard that there are some or at least one new song that is way out there.
what number is it or a link to it on youtube.
thanks.
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bafh
It sounds like they've hired someone off Broadway to produce their "show".... -
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A Sister Stops the CO's Bullying
by Simon Templar inwe had the co a few weeks ago.
i waited a few weeks for time to pass to post.
we now have a new co. he started in september and his first visit to our congo was a little while ago.
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bafh
If I ever lost my mind and went back, I'm afraid I could not hold my tongue and would be in the same boat as that sister. She has the advantage of age though. I, on the other hand, would probably be labeled as an "independent thinker" and not "submissive" enough.
I've thought about it, and if I was approached by the elders - my response would be "Thank you for your concern. As a single woman, my head is Jehovah, not any man." [Smile].
What could they say to that?
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152
If YOU had to make the decision, would you respect a JW relatives wish to refuse a blood transfusion?
by nicolaou ina few years after i quit the meetings my mum needed her medical directive signed and witnessed and she asked if i'd do it.
i was surprised to say the least!.
i think she was just angling to include me and maybe find some lever to get me involved again.
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bafh
Coded Logic -
I would say that the underlying difference in how people are answering comes down to the fact that some people think "the most moral decision" is to follow what the person would want if they were conscious rather than doing what you would decide for yourself.
In my case, I am my mother's representative, her stand-in. So for me the most moral decision I could make is to honor her wishes. And I think legally, because she has that the blood card as a legal document, I don't think I could choose to do otherwise. Besides, she is a true believer regular pioneer, so you know hordes of people would swarm me should I do any different.
With all the information available, if people are staying in, it's because they want to. People believe strange things. Everyone has the free will to make their own choices, be right or wrong, succeed or fail. It's their right and it is not our right to strip them of it.
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If YOU had to make the decision, would you respect a JW relatives wish to refuse a blood transfusion?
by nicolaou ina few years after i quit the meetings my mum needed her medical directive signed and witnessed and she asked if i'd do it.
i was surprised to say the least!.
i think she was just angling to include me and maybe find some lever to get me involved again.
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bafh
I believe tolerance goes both ways. So, yes. It is their right to choose for themselves what they want and it is not my place to violate that. I am the medical representative listed on my mother's blood card, and should it come to that, I plan on following her conscience.
It's her life, not mine. If I want her to respect my right to be "inactive", then I think it is the right thing to do to respect her right to be a true believer. In my view, part of being an adult is respecting other people's right to their own points of view, opinions, etc and supporting what is important to them, even if it is something that is not important to me.
We don't have to be the same to be respectful and loving. Otherwise, how are we any different than the hypocrasy many of us have experienced at the KH?
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Survey: How long were you in the cult vs what year you were baptized
by ILoveTTATT2 inhi people,.
i want as much data as possible on the effect of the internet on the time captured by the cult.. please answer the three following questions about yourself or about someone you know (for example, if your parents or grandparents were jw's and left).
1) were you raised as a jw, or did you convert?.
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bafh
1) Raise (1971)
2) 1988
3) 2007 (only attend Memorial and funerals)
Time in: 1971 - 2007 (36) total years associated
1988 -2007 (21) years baptized
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Feeling rejected
by Esmeralda001 injust a little disclaimer: english isn't my first language (i'm from france) thus the poor writing skills.here is the situation: i'm not a jw.
however, i'm in the process of becoming one.
in fact, i'm studying with the jw's, and i'll proceed to become an unbaptized publisher as soon as i finish the first book.to make a long story short i was introduced to the truth when i was 18een.
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bafh
The issue is they are jealous of you on multiple levels:
1) you are smart
2) you are attractive
3) you are sensual
4) you are independent
5) you are educated
How could they possibly compete?
All of this however gets you the label of being "dangerous" - it won't matter if you move congregations unless you move to an affluent congregation with many educated/professionals - you will be treated like this no matter where you go.
They consider you a threat and they always will...
Leave now while you still can.