while investigating the wts concept of "two classes of christians" - the first being a heavenly ruling class made up of the 144,000, and the second an earthly subject class - i decided to investigate the basic wts premise that all of the 144,000 are to be "rulers with christ".
those who would rule with christ - the "first resurrection".
although it could be theorized that if paul said that the "saints" or "holy ones" are to judge the world, and these are part of the "firstfruits" then the some of the 144,000 may be ruling with christ.
Fartful,
Just as I figured it would, it went right over the top of your wee little head. You haven't the comprehension abilities of a dead ape, and on top of that you are infected with that mind disease I talked about earlier (biasitus). No one would actually have expected you to agree with the point I made, since afterall you ARE here first of all as an opposer to the WTS.
Yadirf
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Edited by - Lefty on 23 December 2002 1:34:23
before i had started studying with the jw's i had tried to read the bible.
it didn't make sense to me.
(in all honesty, i didn't try real hard nor did i put forth alot of time into my readings).
Oh tut tut, Jonny Cip, you've obviously been reading this site too long. You should learn to think and speak for yourself, it's obvious that your expressions merely parrot what you've read here.
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i got a phone call from a jw i met when i moved here 10 months ago.
she always sat by herself in the hall and looked so out of it.
well one meeting i mentioned clients and she asked me what kind of clients and i went on th tell her i worked with mental health.
DickotaRed,
If you'll notice, my comments said nothing about what I defended and what I didn't defend.
The guy needs his ass kicked ... Maybe you do too, for defending that decision.
Are you saying that you volunteer for the job? If so, then let's get it on, where do we meet?
Edited because I forgot to sign my name, and don't want you whipping up on my wife.
Yadirf
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Edited by - Lefty on 23 December 2002 1:37:21
before i had started studying with the jw's i had tried to read the bible.
it didn't make sense to me.
(in all honesty, i didn't try real hard nor did i put forth alot of time into my readings).
Happy,
You can't really understand where I'm coming from unless you've walked in my shoes for the past two years dealing with apostates on boards such as this one. A lot of time I meet fire with fire, if you know what that means.
Yadirf
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i got a phone call from a jw i met when i moved here 10 months ago.
she always sat by herself in the hall and looked so out of it.
well one meeting i mentioned clients and she asked me what kind of clients and i went on th tell her i worked with mental health.
Happy_Guy,
are you a witness? Or were you a witness at one point?
My wife and I both were baptised July 12, 1968.
Insofar as meeting attendance (with the exception of making a few conventions over the years) I've been inactive for over 2 decades (just like Outlaw and Larc likes to remind everybody here).
I have my scriptural reasons for being inactive, while still yet claiming to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses (it's related to Daniel 11:35, if you care to know).
________________________________________________
Ignat:
Or perhaps you can ask your wife Lefty what the appropriate response would be. She at least seems to be a sensible and compassionate woman.
Thank you, Ignat, I'm sure that she appreciates you having that opinion of her. That's one reason that I married her, is because of those very qualities (plus, I always liked kissing her ... heh heh heh).
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Edited by - Lefty on 23 December 2002 1:1:33
before i had started studying with the jw's i had tried to read the bible.
it didn't make sense to me.
(in all honesty, i didn't try real hard nor did i put forth alot of time into my readings).
Jurs says:
I think about certain scriptures that JW's use over and over and now some of those scriptures make the org look so bad but I just never saw it. For example , the story of the prodigal son. how he came back after leading a lifestyle that was not approved of by God nor his father and yet was welcomed back with open arms. He didn't have to be shunned for a certain amount of time until a group of men decided it was ok to talk to him. He was shown Love and mercy. This was a powerful eye awakener for me.
Then you need to close your eyes and re-open them again, Blinky Jurs. The prodigal son was shown the love and mercy because he returned to his senses, dummy. He finally saw the folly of his ways, repented and came home, dummy. JW's react the same way towards any who have stumbled into gross sin but afterwards came to their senses. Who do you think you're kidding, Blinky Jurs?
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while investigating the wts concept of "two classes of christians" - the first being a heavenly ruling class made up of the 144,000, and the second an earthly subject class - i decided to investigate the basic wts premise that all of the 144,000 are to be "rulers with christ".
those who would rule with christ - the "first resurrection".
although it could be theorized that if paul said that the "saints" or "holy ones" are to judge the world, and these are part of the "firstfruits" then the some of the 144,000 may be ruling with christ.
Fartful,
Okay, I admit it, I feel sorry for you. So, I'll try.
You said:
there is no mention of the 144,000 acting in any special judging or ruling capacity in the Kingdom of God.
The clues that solve your delemma of not being able to see that the 144,000 are to rule as kings alongside Christ during the thousand years is actually right there in the scriptures that you've quoted, namely:
Revelation 14:1
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.___________
Those who would rule with Christ - the "first resurrection"
Revelation 20:1-6
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority* to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Note that the 144,000, mentioned in the 14th chapter, rather than having the name/mark of the beast upon their foreheads have Jesus' and his father's name there instead. In other words, under compulsion (see 13:15-16), they came out victorious in resisting the name/mark of the beast from being placed upon their foreheads. Those with the mark are the ones who gave in and accepted it. The mark is much like a brand in that it identifies the person's owner. Thus, those who accepted the mark have become slaves to their owner, the wild beast. On the other hand, under the same test as all others, the 144,000 prove that their owners are Jehovah God and Jesus Christ ... because those are the names upon thier foreheads.
Now, read the parts that I've highlighted in both scriptures in the quote up above. If you can't make the connection I won't only feel sorry for you, I'll pity you as well. Yes, it's the 144,000 that is referred to there in 20:4 ... as can be seen by association along with having an understanding of what names on foreheads express.
Now, by your reply, prove to me that I've not given what is holy to a dog.--Matthew 7:6.
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Edited by - Lefty on 23 December 2002 0:27:29
i got a phone call from a jw i met when i moved here 10 months ago.
she always sat by herself in the hall and looked so out of it.
well one meeting i mentioned clients and she asked me what kind of clients and i went on th tell her i worked with mental health.
livingagain,
I see now just how mind controlled we really were
The lady is only "mind controlled" in YOUR biased mind. Just because apostates prefer to think that way doesn't mean that it's really that way at all. Bias is a terrible disease of the mind. The lady has her legitimate reasons for believing in the Bible and believing that the "faithful slave" is found inside the WTS. Don't feel sorry for her, focus the pity on yourself.
Yadirf
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while investigating the wts concept of "two classes of christians" - the first being a heavenly ruling class made up of the 144,000, and the second an earthly subject class - i decided to investigate the basic wts premise that all of the 144,000 are to be "rulers with christ".
those who would rule with christ - the "first resurrection".
although it could be theorized that if paul said that the "saints" or "holy ones" are to judge the world, and these are part of the "firstfruits" then the some of the 144,000 may be ruling with christ.
Fartful says:
besides Yardif, isn't your technique of attacking the messenger and ignoring the message a little too obvious to be effective on this board?
Instead of trying to be insulting, if you'll look back through my many posts you'll see that I've addressed "the message" PLENTY of times, while others (take Yeru as an example, and only just recently) have ignored MY challenges/messages. That there gives me one good reason for not addressing YOUR so-called "message"; in other words, you're not one to be truthful. The number two reason that I won't go to the trouble to address YOUR so-called "message" is because the bias in your initial words in this thread was far from being undetectable. As biased as you are, there is absolutely no way possible for you to see anything but what you want to see, so I won't waste my time with you.
Yadirf
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i've taken note that the person that goes by the name "outlaw" continues to post daily.
yet, he hasn't entered the thread whose title bears his very own name.
yes, conveniently, outlaw skips past a thread that calls him to account for the lie he spoke about yadirf.
List of those who defend obvious liars
#1 COMF
#2 Francois
#3 Animal
#4 Valis
#5 xenawarrior
#6 maximumflash
#7 expatbrit
#8 DannyBear
#9 outofthe org
#10
Who wants to make it a full 10?
Yadirf (borrowing my wife's account again. I can't believe I've already hit the daily limit. Must be those corrections I've made that counted against me.)
(Whoops! I've just been asked, by my better half, why the hell I'm using her account again. This may be my last post for the day ... we'll see.)
By the way: Where in the hell is OUTLAW at?
I'm sure he here, weasel around somewhere, purposely avoiding this thread.
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