Lieu

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Posts by Lieu

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  4

  Reporting Molestations to Elders

  by Vitameatavegamin in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  my feeling on this whole sexual abuse matter is that if a child has been or is being molested, it should be taken straight to the police.

  why allow the elders to "decide" first if there is any merit to the allegations.

  mainly because if the accused has committed this crime and denies to the elders, the victim is basically screwed in the eyes of the congregation.

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  Lieu

  Interesting note:

  I think the problem comes from the difference in 'training'. Males are taught to give teaching lectures to an audience...where females are taught to have teaching "conversations" on a personal level. Females are taught to talk "to" you.

  Most Elders are...well...um....borish, stiff, unconsoling, non-comforting, and possess absolutely no inter-personal skills. Elders, can however, spurt off scriptures which have been taken out of context to make the unsuspecting depressed soul feel even worse.

  Males aren't taught how to do anything on a personal level....it's quite obvious that they don't know how. Elders are taught to talk "at" you.

  Who would want to talk with someone like that when in need of comfort? ... who would send their child for a grand inquisition from a person like that? I mean really!!!

  There are very few elders who preside in a "fine manner" and are actually good "teachers" as opposed to good "speakers". I have yet to hear a personal kind word come out of an Elder's mouth directed toward a depressed soul.

  Therin lies the biggest problem.
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  4

  Please enlighten me on the name "Apostate&...

  by Cappuccino OC in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i agree with erica's comment below: .

  "i am not an apostate, i have never spoken out against god and i never will, which is what the bible says an apostate is.

  we all know that the wts is not god.

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  Lieu

  Luke 18:8

  "Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth?"
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  4

  Please enlighten me on the name "Apostate&...

  by Cappuccino OC in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i agree with erica's comment below: .

  "i am not an apostate, i have never spoken out against god and i never will, which is what the bible says an apostate is.

  we all know that the wts is not god.

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  Lieu

  Its an oddity.....Jesus stated that one could even speak against Him and it would be forgiven.

  Luke 12:8-10
  8 “I say, then, to YOU, Everyone that confesses union with me before men, the Son of man will also confess union with him before the angels of God. 9 But he that disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. 10 And everyone that says a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but he that blasphemes against the holy spirit will not be forgiven it."

  I don't think the WBTS is better than Christ...after all, who is going to come out of the memorial tombs at the sound of a GB voice?

  Apostate: person who deviates or rebells from the divine gospel by teaching heresies and false prophesies....

  Matthew 24:23-28
  23 “Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 28 Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

  ...."Look!, there is the Christ, albeit invisible, he has been ruling in the heavens since 1914!".....as JESUS said "DO NOT BELIEVE THEM."

  The problem with all of this is that the WBTS forgot about Christ, as a matter of fact, I would say they like Paul better.

  Its odd how things have developed....they say the Catholics are founded on Peter and they are founded on 'Abel and first century GB'....

  Is anybody founded on Christ anymore?!!!
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  16

  Other thoughts: the two witnesses idea

  by larc in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  whether the two witnesses to two separate incidences is new or old, it is still a very stupid policy.

  let us suppose a child was raped and their parents took the matter to police.

  further suppose that the police said, that they couldn't investigate because there had not been any other complaints against the rapist.

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  Lieu

  I wonder if that applies to murder also?....two dead bodies required?

  Interesting, if dead bodies can't give an oral testimony....? Hmmm?
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  7

  How to DF the Governing Body

  by Francois in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  who are these men?

  who the hell put them in charge of six million people?

  i know, i know, it was the holy spirit that put them there.. this is a corporation for chrissake!

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  Lieu

  See, the GB may not really care what happens to the majority of 'other sheep', 'foreigners', 'Jonadabs', etc. because they consider themselves too special to care about "that" side of the 'fold', 'other flock', 'less-than-theys'. Besides Jah will fix it in the NS when he exacts 'justice'...forget showing love and mercy in the meantime.

  I say, if we are going to live strictly by some parts of the Greek Scriptures....we should live by all of it....

  When my friend's mother hits 60, I, for one, want to see her (widow's) portion devied up.
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  22

  Who's Saying What?

  by Psychdigg in

  1. social
  2. current

  i have been reviewing my tape of the dateline program and i will make some comments in depth.

  however i have a question?.

  in the call to the legal department at the watchtower did the person representing the watchtower identify himself by name?

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  Lieu

  Consent laws pertain to "government agents" (ie police, etc.), not citizens.

  The general citizenry can tape whatever they want.

  As for police, well...we just get a Search and Seizure Warrant (wiretap) which is, for all purposes, a "one party" telephone eavesdropping license.

  For face-to face taped encounters, police only need 'one party' consent.
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  25

  Dateline Fitzwater Letter-"Two Witnesses

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the following is a letter written from the service department regarding the molestation of the step daughter of daniel fitzwater.

  in the dateline program daniel fitzwater was shown by correspondence from a circuit overseer to have molested 17 jw children who unfortunately did not have two eye-witnesses for each incident.

  thus brother fitzwater went to prision and remains in prision as a jw in "good standing".

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  Lieu

  Okay...i looked this one up....this is strictly about the Two Witness Rule...here's what Jesus said:

  Matt. 18:15-17

  "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault (Lit. 'repove him') between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter (Or 'EVERYTHING SAID') may be established.(Lit. 'might stand). If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."

  Looking at it from Christ's words....the rule does not seem to imply being a 'witness' to the actual sin, but being a 'witness' to the ACCUSATION of a sin so that the accuser's words are clearly recorded.

  ex. Bro nice sees bro sinful steal some money from him. Bro Nice approaches Bro Sinful about the matter privately but Bro Sinful refuses to correct matters. Bro Nice brings two others along with him to approach Bro Sinful so that he has 'witnesses' to his addressing Bro sinful and that the accusation can be clear. Well, Bro Sinful still fails to correct matters. Now Bro Nice has no choice but to take the matter before the congregation......etc.
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  25

  Dateline Fitzwater Letter-"Two Witnesses

  by silentlambs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the following is a letter written from the service department regarding the molestation of the step daughter of daniel fitzwater.

  in the dateline program daniel fitzwater was shown by correspondence from a circuit overseer to have molested 17 jw children who unfortunately did not have two eye-witnesses for each incident.

  thus brother fitzwater went to prision and remains in prision as a jw in "good standing".

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  Lieu

  I've often wondered had anyone actually read 1 Tim chpts 4 and 5? ... as well as the ENTIRE chapter in Duet. relating to this matter. This would help keep a certain 'human organization' from taking ONE scriptural verse sorely out of context.
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  25

  I need help/info on other religions vs the WTS

  by Leander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  over the past week since i've announced that i was stepping down i have had a few conversations with my family, and against my better judgement i mentioned that i was having doubts.

  invariably almost every discussion about the jw religion eventually boils down to the argument that only witnesses are doing this or that.

  unfortunately this is a weak part of my debate, i have only been associated with the jw religion so i have very little information on what other religions beleive and practice.

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  Lieu

  I say remember the guy who was "preaching" near Jesus and the Apostles got upset because the guy was not per se "one of them" (Disciples)? What did Jesus say? Basically, he said leave the guy alone as he was doing a fine thing...Jesus' statement on this matter gives food for thought.

  If you want to keep telling people the 'good news about the kingdom'...then by all means do it. You just have to learn to use whatever opportunity that comes along, without 'slips', without someone to turn in 'hours' to, and without strange 'rules'. The purpose of 'preaching' is to bring people to an understanding and appreciation of God purpose and of Christs' sacrifice...not to bring people to an understanding of an orginization.

  Paul wasn't worried about belonging to any group while he carried out his given task....So as the Nike ad says, "Just do it".
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  19

  Why are the witnesses suddenly smiling at me?

  by Inquiry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi all..... i was starting to feel like i was walking around outside in me undies.... is there something new going on... people who normally always looked at me with disdain are suddenly smiling and making friendly.... is anything up????

  just last week, i was sure i was still satan's spawn....???

  weeeeeiiiirrrdddd..... inq :)

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  Lieu

  Seems like folks were told they would be held accountable for not being true shepards...or really caring about others.