Posts by lisaBObeesa

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

lisaBObeesa

djeggnog said: However, Bible prophecies are from God, while the interpretations of Jehovah's Witnesses are our own based upon what the spirit says in God's word. Anyone that doesn't understands the difference between a Bible prophecy and an interpretation, anyone that doesn't appreciate how the spirit guides our understanding of Bible prophecy, that is, through what things the Bible says, would be in darkness on this issue. I can assure you that I am not in darkness.

“What is here meant by the word ‘inspired’? It means that God, the Creator of heaven and earth, moved these men by his spirit or invisible empowering force, putting into their minds what they should write down as his ‘word,’ or message, for mankind.” —Good News, 1976, p. 14
“The Source of all true prophecy is Jehovah God. He transmits it by means of his holy spirit or, occasionally, by spirit-directed angelic messengers.”—Insight on the Scriptures, vol. 2, 1988, p. 691
“Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or active force.... That same holy spirit and angelic direction still affect the preaching activities of Christian ministers.” —The Watchtower, July 1, 1973, pp. 402, 405
“These angels are invisible to human eyes and are there to carry out the orders of the Lord. Not doubt they first hear the instruction which the Lord issues to his remnant and then these invisible messengers pass such instruction on to the remnant. The facts show that the angels of the Lord with him at his temple have been thus rendering service unto the remnant since 1919.” —Vindication III, 1932, p. 250
“There Ezekiel is definitely told that he is henceforth to serve as a prophet. He is commissioned to speak in the divine name.... He was thus, in an outstanding way, made a witness of Jehovah. Not alone were the inspired words of Ezekiel prophetic, but he himself was a prophetic figure in his action....Who is Ezekiel’s present-day counterpart, whose message and conduct correspond with that of that ancient prophet of Jehovah?… So it is with the modern-day counterpart of Ezekiel: it is, not one person’s body, but a composite body, made up of many members.... were commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah....Why, though, are all these facts of history brought to our attention? It is to show the fulfillment of prophecy. Jehovah has found and commissioned his modern-day ‘Ezekiel.’ ” —“The Nations Shall Know THAT I AM JEHOVAH —How?”, 1971, pp. 56, 58-59, 66
“The scroll was doubtless delivered to Ezekiel by the hand of one of the cherubs in the vision. This would indicate that Jehovah’s witnesses today make their declaration of the good news of the Kingdom under angelic direction and support. (Rev. 14:6,7; Matt. 25:31, 32) And since no word or work of Jehovah can fail, for he is God Almighty, the nations will see the fulfillment of what these witnesses say as directed from heaven. Yes, the time must come shortly that the nations will have to know that really a ‘prophet’ of Jehovah was among them.” —The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 200

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

lisaBObeesa

djeggnogg said: There is absolutely no one that can produce a single shred of evidence that Jehovah's Witnesses ever took a firm position as to 1975 beyond proclaiming it to be the year that marked 6,000 years of mankind's creation (from 4026 BC).

You are quite right about the "firm position" on 1975. It was more like a very strong position on 1975 possibly being the end because the Watchtower said that 'reliable' chronology was pointing to that year, and a very "firm position"on the end coming before the generation of 1914 passed away.

The Watchtower May 1, 1967 page 262 in the bound volume:

THE END OF 6000 YEARS

In examining these scriptural facts, something else also captures our attention. According to Bible chronology, we are already over fifty-two years into the wicked system of things' "Time of the end." That time began in the autumn of 1914 C.E., at the termination of the "Appointed times of the nations," and it is already far advaced. Jesus said that "this generation" that saw the beginning of this time period in 1914 would also see its end. the generation that was old enough to view those events with understanding in 1914 is no longer young. It no longer has many years to run. Already many of its members have died. But Jesus showed that there would still be members of "this generation" alive at the time of the passing away of this wicked system of things in both heaven and earth. (Luke 21:32, 33)

How much longer will it be, then, before God takes action to destroy the wicked and usher in the blessings of his Kingdom rule? Interestingly, the autumn of the year 1975 marks the end of 6000 years of human experience. This is ascertainable from reliable chronology preserved in the Bible itself. What will that year mean for humankind? Will it be the time when God executes the wicked and starts off the thousand-year reign of his Son Jeus Christ? It very well could, but we will have to wait to see. Yet of this we can be certain: the generation that Jesus said would witness those events is nearing its close. The time is close at hand. On God's "timetable" we are in the closing days of a wicked system of things that will soon be gone forever. A glorious new order is immediately before us. This is therefore, good reason for Chriestians everywhere to rejoice. Yes, they rejoice because fulfillment of their prayers for the kingdom of God is now at hand.

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

lisaBObeesa

djeggnog said:

..but why does our having to admit when we were wrong in our interpretations of certain Bible passages have to mean that we don't have the truth?

Maybe a venn diagram will help.

Notice how the set of "truth" does not intersect with the set of "wrong":

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

lisaBObeesa

wasblind said: DEEGY baby, why don't you follow along with me in the reasoning book, on page 97 according to the chart, it explains : What happened at this time ? It goes on to say that " Jehovah entrusted rulership over to his own son, Jesus Christ, glorified to the heavens."

now read the last sentence of the following paragraph where it states " Before the last members of the generation that was alive in 1914 will have passed off the scene, all the things foretold will occur, including the "great tribulation" in which the present wicked world will end."

My goodness, that is so CLEAR! Right there the WT AGAIN PREDICTS/FORTELLS/ANNOUNCES/TEACHES/STATES AS FACT:

"Before the last members of the generation that was alive in 1914 will have passed off the scen, all the things foretold will occur, including the "great tribulation" in which the present wicked world will end." --Matt 24:21, 22, 34.

Then, interestingly, the Reasoning Book cites Matt 24:21, 22, 34. Weird, since those scriptures don't say anything about the world ending before the generation that saw 1914 passes away.

Also, Why did they leave out Matt 24:23-36 in the citation? It really reads so much better all together...

10

When a friend tells you things you don't hear at the KH

by Nobleheart in

a close friend of mine enlightened me a couple of weeks ago by telling me so many things about the wt.

that's how i first heard about the involvement with the un, russell's pyramidology (freemason symbols), dates, etc.

this friend also used terms like 'mind control' and 'rank and file', which i'd never heard before in this context.

lisaBObeesa

Welcome, Nobleheart.

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

lisaBObeesa

Lisa said: You are a shameless liar
.

djeggnogg said: So what you saying to me here is that you believe your knowledge of the Bible to be complete?

No. I'm saying you are a shameless liar.

djeggnog said: That you are not one that thought that you could scheme your way to salvation by pretending to love God so as to pull one on the Almighty, and by reason of my pointing out the truth about you, I'm a shameless liar?

What are you talking about? Again, I have no problem with God. I have a problem with false prophets and liars.

djeggnog said: Ok, @lisaBObeesa, but if you don't mind so that I might better understand your accusation about us, tell me:
(1) Please provide the book, chapter and verse in the Bible where I would find the prophecy that God did not speak to which Jehovah's Witnesses have been pointing to and claiming that God had, in fact, spoken it?

How am I going to find a prophecy in the Bible that God did not speak? I’m not understanding.

I ask because if Jehovah's Witnesses have ever articulated a prophecy and claimed that prophecy to have been a prophecy from God, then it stands to reason that anyone with a reasonable intelligence would have asked where in the Bible such a prophecy was recorded, book, chapter and verse.

Oh, I get you now. I'm sorry, I can't help you here! See, I’ve been talking about the Jehovah’s Witnesses FALSE prophecy. And those are NOT in the Bible. That’s a big part of what make them false. That and, you know, how they don’t come true.

There is no prophecy in the Bible about the end of the world happening before the generation of 1914 passes away.

Lisa said: Even active current JWs know that the JWs were predicting the end of the world before the generation of 1914

passed away.

djeggnog said: What you say here is not true for the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Maybe today, I don't know for sure. But is true of the majority of JWs who were members and of an age to understand the literature and talks in the 1980's. And I will take it a step further. They were not really 'predicting' it. They KNEW for sure it was going to happen. They were foretelling that the end of the world would come before the generation of 1914 passed away.

You may have been guilty of making predictions that were not supported by God's word as to when Armageddon would arrive when you were one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and you may have been in association with some who persuaded you to this opinion, but I've never done this, for I shared with others how we understood Jesus' words at Matthew 24:34 and neither have other Jehovah's Witnesses done this, for our providing such explanations is not the same as if we were using uncanny power and pushing ahead in cooperation with the demons. (1 Samuel 15:23) Were this the case, 55-year-olds in 1965 with a life expectancy of age 70 might have expected Armageddon to arrive before 1980, and it would really have been presumptuous for anyone calling himself or herself one of Jehovah's Witnesses to have been predicting a specific date for Armageddon, which you might have done, @lisaBObeesa, but the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses never did.

ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IN THE 1980's BELIEVED THE WATCHTOWER TEACHING THAT THE CREATOR PROMISED THAT THE WORLD WOULD END BEFORE THE GENERATION OF 1914 PASSED AWAY. ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES BELIEVED THAT.

ALL of them.

God's "UNITED" followers don't cha know.

If they didn't, and they went around telling other JWs they didn't believe it, they would be labled an apostate and disfellowhsipped and cut off from all friends and possibly their families. Period.

Jehovah's Witnesses had hope toward God that the generation of the anointed brothers of Jesus Christ described as a "modern-day 'generation' of contemporaries that [would] not pass away" before the conclusion of this system of things, but knowing as we do now that Jesus was not referring to this "modern-day 'generation' of contemporaries," but to the generation of the sign of Jesus' presence in saying about "this generation" that it would "by no means pass away" without all of the things that he had foretold taking place first, we have hope toward God that we are even closer now to the end of "this generation" of the sign of Jesus' presence.

You guys 'hoped' you were right? Well, no that is not quite how it was. Jehovah's Witnesses KNEW FOR SURE that they were right. There was no question. It was called: THE TRUTH.
And then they were wrong.
So they tried to changed what the word 'generation' means so they could still be right.
But you can't just change what words mean to try and make what you said that was wrong THE TRUTH.
When you find out that 2+2 doesn't equal 5 you can't just say "Well, now we understand that 5 actually means 4!" and then keep going around telling people that the TRUTH is 2+2='5' with the 5 in little quote marks.
Either it is the truth, or it isn't.

Yes, @lisaBObeesa, it had been our hope that the number of these "modern-day 'generation' of contemporaries' that continue to survive during Jesus' presence could be used as a precursor as to when the end of the present system of things would occur, but we are now know that it is an impossibility for anyone to know the "day and hour," just as Jesus stated at Matthew 24:36. We didn't predict the end would occur at any given time, but we did misinterpret Jesus' reference to "this generation" at Matthew 24:34 as referring to those of the anointed that were alive when his presence began and would still be alive at the conclusion of this system of things.
Again, the Jehovah's Witnesses DID predict that the world would end before the generation of 1914 passed away. No matter how much you LIE about it.

The word "generation" refers to the period of time that began in 1914 when Jesus' presence would be discerned by his followers and ends at Armageddon, and not to the life span of anyone that may have been alive back in 1914 as Jehovah's Witnesses had once thought to have been the meaning of "generation." We now know that Jesus was saying that "this generation" to whom the sign of his invisible presence would be discerned would not pass away, that is to say, would not come to an end, until all of the things he said were destined to occur during the conclusion of the system of things did, in fact, occur.

I, and everyone else who speaks English, know what the word "generation" means.

It doesn't matter what convolued mish-mash Jehovah's Witnesses are teaching is TRUTH now.

The fact is, it isn't THE TRUTH. It's A GUESS.<-->

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

lisaBObeesa

You cannot possibly know what I believe until you either me what I believe or you ask someone else, who is one of Jehovah's Witnesses (maybe, your wife) to tell you what we believe, because in this very thread, I'm hearing nonsense from former Jehovah's Witnesses that make the false accusation that we were making predictions as to when the end of the world when we were touting "1914-the generation that will not pass away," which is not true, and is conjecture on their part since their knowledge of the Bible was incomplete and they evidently thought that they could scheme their way to salvation by pretending to love God.

You are a shameless liar.

There are countless more quotes and scans of WT literature that prove you are a liar. But there is no need to post them because you aleady KNOW you are lying.

Even active current JWs know that the JWs were predicting the end of the world before the generation of 1914 passed away.

(edited)

7

What do they do at Bethel on Holidays?

by JeffT in

jw
friends

normal operations?

shut down because nothing else is moving?.

it is coming up in book manuscript and i realized i didn't know (althogh i've seen pictures of christmas dinner at bethel in chuck's day)..

lisaBObeesa

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

lisaBObeesa

generation of 1914 false prophesy

Denial that the generation of 1914 teaching was a prophesy

denial that 1975 was promoted in the literature

denial that JW literature says that a disfellowshipped or disassociated person is cut off from association with their own relatives

denial that there is a clergy/rank and file division within the JWs

denial that 'empowered by the holy spirit' means 'empowered by the holy spirit'

denial that the WT teaches that WT publications are God's approved instrument of communication with mankind

Lies, lies, lies, lies and more lies.

From The Sociopath Next Door:

When considering a new relationship of any kind, practice the Rule of Threes regarding the claims and promises a person makes, and the responsibilities he or she has.

Make the Rule of Threes your personal policy. One lie, one broken promise, or a single neglected responsibility may be a misunderstanding instead. Two may involve a serious mistake. But three lies says you're dealing with a liar, and deceit is the linchpin of conscienceless behavior. Cut your losses and get out as soon as you can. Leaving, though it may be hard, will be easier now than later, and less costly.

Do not give your money, your work, your secrets, or your affection to a three-timer. Your valuable gifts will be wasted.

443

Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller in

jw
friends

maybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?

in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.

one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.

lisaBObeesa

DJEGGNOG said: If you should speak contrary to what God's word says, you would thereby be identifying yourself as a false prophet
.

Well then, by your own definition, the WT is a false prophet many times over.

DJEGGNOG said: If I could get you to provide proof of just one prediction that Jehovah's Witnesses have made