had a short, cuz i cut it off, conversation about mormons today.
she claims to be one.
before i knew she was my big mouth called it a cult.
I asked if they shun those that leave.
She said no almost the opposite. They try to help back any that are "leaving". Then we talked about
excommunication and she said only the "real bad sinners" get that.
That is EXACTLY what a Jehovah's Witness would say if you asked them the same question.
Try it. Walk up to a table of JWs at the mall or where ever you see them and just ask them: "Do you shun those who leave?" They will ALWAYS say "No."
dear harvard university,.
i have decided go leave this institution of education.
let me explain why.
Really pointing out obvious things like this and being pedantic about every little statement of the illustration is a sign of debility, not the intellectual prowess you're trying to flaunt by disproving my point. It shows that when you read it, you used no critical thinking skills to make reasonable or implied inferences.
So by showing that your analogy does not work on any level...step by step, line by line, using clear and factual reasons.... we are not using critical thinking skills.
I don't think the words "critical thinking" mean what you think they mean.
(And, as we showed in our arguments, none of your 'implied inferences' were 'reasonable'.)
dear harvard university,.
i have decided go leave this institution of education.
let me explain why.
I'm sure all of this has already been covered, but I can't help myself.
I have decided go leave this institution of education. Let me explain why. First of all, you coerced me out of my will into joining this university.
This analogy is false. Nobody gets coerced into going to Harvard. If anything, it works the other way around with applicants doing everything in their power to be accepted by the University, not the University doing everything it can to get the students to 'join' (possible exceptions being VIP students that would be prize for the school). A quick google search says Harvard only accepts 6.2 percent of applicants, rejecting many very well qualified students.
In contrast, the JWs constantly recruit and accept everyone who applies as long as they agree to follow the JW man-made rules. Also in contrast, the children of JWs ARE coerced into joining the group.
I was not made thoroughly aware of what is expected of me and given the option to choose whether I would consent to these terms and conditions.
This analogy is false. What is expected of University students is common public knowledge. Harvard preps incoming freshmen about exactly what to expect. Current students freely share what it is like at Harvard. Graduates freely share what it is like at Harvard. estimated costs are posted on the net. "Rate my professor" even tells you how each professor grades and what their individual requirements are.
In contrast, many things about the JW man-made organization, are kept from potential recruits, only to be revealed when the reruit has gotten in deep enough and has enough invested that they will swallow the bad stuff...like shunning family members, for example. Brand new recruits are never told of that one! You have to be fairly committed to the JWs before they tell you that one...
Therefore, I purchased extremely costly textbooks written by your professors. But guess what, I purchased the twelfth edition of these biology and anatomy textbooks. I went online, did some research, and found the first 11 editions. Can you believe how much they have changed the information and illustrations contained therein?? Biology doesnt change. Anatomy isnt changing. One day you want us to believe DNA is everything, then the next day 98% of it is leftover genetic junk DNA, and now its vitally important again. Which is it? Does biology suddenly flip flop what it does? Whatever these pseudo, self appointed, biological innovators say we believe. Every thing they write we are expected to memorize, regurgitate, and blindly accept as truth.
This analogy is completely false. Science does not demand that we blindly accept theories as truth. We accept theories as our current best explanation for the data we see. All students of science understand that theories are THEORIES. Theories are challenged. Better theories emerge and replace old theories...that is how science works...
In contrast, the JWs do not have THEORIES. They claim to have THE TRUTH. JW TRUTH may not be challenged. At all. Period.And the JW TRUTH must be accepted blindly.
Whatever the history book tells us happened, they test us on and REQUIRE us to believe whatever they write.
This is totally false, and pretty much the opposite of what they teach you in college.
I have read several books and can perfectly identify cults and this describes the manner in which your facility operates.
There is no book on cults that describes the way Harvard University operates. There are, however, many books on cults that describe the way the JW Org operates (but don't mention JWs at all). For example, Combatting Cult Mind Control.
Whenever someone disagrees with your beloved administrators they are disciplined and are shunned and thrown out.
People are not shunned for disagreeing with Harvard administrators. Harvard also does not throw people out for disagreeing with administrators.
In contrast, people ARE shunned for disagreeing with the elders or the GB in the JW org.
They cannot tell me, a grown man, what to do. I am done with this cult, and I am throwing away my textbooks! But I will continue to write about, speak about, and think about your organization because I hate it zo much. I must let the world.know about how great of a cult you are
Again, this analogy is false. Former students of Harvard do not have websites to support them and to help them adjust to life outside Harvard, though they are free to make them if they wanted to. But they don't. In contrast, former JWs do have websites to support them and help them adjust to life outside their high control group. As do former Scientologist, and former members of other high control groups.
People who leave Harvard do no describe leaving as 'escaping'. Former JWs do.
People who leave Harvard don't have to sneak out and try to 'fade' in order to keep their families. JWs do.
People who leave Harvard are not punished for the rest of their lives or until they return to Harvard. JWs are punished for the rest of their lives or until they return to the JWs.
People are free to leave Harvard without sufferening blackmail, emotional abuse, and the loss of family.
Well, if you don't do the work, you don't get the prize---everlasting life.
In the here and now I'm going to HELP people.
I'm going to LOVE people.
You can keep your 'everylasting life' that requires the constant selling of books and the shunning of human beings.
Not worth the price! Not worth my soul!
worship is man's natural reaction to an encounter with the living god.
for humans unacquainted with anything but a book or a prayer or a seat in an arena where "god" is spoken it is a 2nd level intellectual or emotional experience.
not reality.. idolatry becomes necessary.. what better way to serve an unknown and unknowable except by erecting a helpful worship aid: image?.
Agree!
i changed all names.
dear sister,.
i am writing you this because i have never been very good at expressing myself in person.
great response.
i'd like extend a greeting to all members of jwn.
i've been a lurking by-stander of this forum for approximately 6 months.
i think this forum's best moments can be attributed to the involvement of actual jw's in doctrinaire discussions and to heated (though not always dialectic) debates.
While I'm waiting...it would be cool to read some of your blogs,
Love is Kind. (1 Cor 13:4)
Shunning is not.
http://firstcorthirteenfour.wordpress.com/2011/11/09/following-orders-from-men/
i'd like extend a greeting to all members of jwn.
i've been a lurking by-stander of this forum for approximately 6 months.
i think this forum's best moments can be attributed to the involvement of actual jw's in doctrinaire discussions and to heated (though not always dialectic) debates.
The arbitrary connections made between Daniel 4 and Revelation seemed somewhat plausible, but NOT DEFINITE.
I expressed this to my elders. I was not instantly disfellowshipped and denounced as an apostate a few days later.
I notice that your situation is not quite the same as Mouthy's. You were questioning the doctrine and not sure.
She, on the other hand, had come to the conclusion (from her research) that the 144000 teaching is wrong and that she definitely does not believe in it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20145664.
the test by researchers at goldsmiths, university of london, tried to establish whether mediums could use psychic abilities to identify something about five unseen volunteers.. the results, carried out under test conditions, did not show evidence of any unexplained powers of insight.. but medium patricia putt said this experiment "doesn't prove a thing".. this halloween challenge was an attempt to investigate whether professional mediums could demonstrate their psychic powers in a controlled setting - by inviting them to deduce something about people they had never met and could not see or hear..
I can't stand psychics/faith healers/mediums/chanellers.
They make their living by tricking people in order to take their money. Usually the people are grieving the loss of a loved one.
well it's been about 8 months since my final wake up.
as some may remember for my intro thread, i panicked and was way too aggressive at first with telling my wife all about this scam we're a part of.
she freaked, thinking satan had me for sure.
lozhasleft said:
Sounds like your wife is already on your side in many ways, and if you get hunted down I think she'll be indignant at them. Then might the time for her to see the control issues, cos if you stated your views you'd be DFd for apostasy. Meanwhile keep up the loving care of her.
That is exactly what I was thinking. She knows you are a good person, and that doing your honest and open-minded research...she knows you are not trying 'cause divisions' and that you are not trying to pull people out of the Org. If they hound you for no reason and/or DF you, she will see how unjust, unloving, and dishonest the JW org really is, and how heartless the people she calls 'friends' in the congregation really are.
