lisaBObeesa

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Posts by lisaBObeesa

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  314

  If you were on the Zimmerman jury, how would you vote? 2nd degree murder, manslaughter or innocent?

  by UnConfused in

  1. social
  2. current
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  lisaBObeesa

  You have a black president, you have had a black Secretary of state. You have many black governors. The commercials on TV are full of blacks.

  yes, these things as well as so many of the comments on this thread are proof that racism is dead!

  
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  314

  If you were on the Zimmerman jury, how would you vote? 2nd degree murder, manslaughter or innocent?

  by UnConfused in

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  lisaBObeesa

  Manslaughter, at the least. not a justified killing. Second degree murder, maybe. (If I understand correctly, and I'm not sure I do completely understand, there must be "ill will, hatred or spite" to be second degree murder. I think calling TM a 'F-ing punk' and one of the 'assholes' who 'always get away' shows Zimmerman's 'ill will' toward TM. so second degree murder, maybe.)
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  95

  Introduction and a note on several posts here

  by LizO in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hey people,.

  as for myself, after extensive study i have concluded that it's not possible for me to trust the bible and so i am not active anymore.

  however, let me please add something to the discussions here:.

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  lisaBObeesa

  One simple example where almost all JWs lie:

  Walk up to any JW on the street, someone out in service that you don't know, and ask them:

  "Does your religon shun former members?"

  They ALWAYS lie and say "no". Often times they really get into it with shocked faces... as in 'where on earth would you get such an idea?!'

  When pressed, they might say it is a 'conscience decision'...another lie, or that they didn't really understand your question..another lie.

  One simple example where the Org lied:

  The Org said they became an NGO 'to use the UN library.' That is a straight up 100% deliberate LIE. ( also blantant hypocracy, but that's a different topic )

  Simple examples of thought control techniques used by the org:

  see this site: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/fear-cult-mind-control.php

  Also, a fun excersize is to make a list of all the JW words and their defintions and then to 'translate' a book like The Live Forever book into regular English instead of JW language.. The use of loaded language becomes pretty clear when you do that.

  for example, we all know

  'take in life-giving Bible knowlege' = read WT publications;

  'satan's world' = Non-JW world;

  "God's laws" = JW rules, and so on.

  example of some page 217 and 218 of Live Forever book 'translated' out of loaded language (that is set up in earlier chapters of the book) and into regular English:

  paragraph 1: You must fight the influence of the non-JW world. You must fight your thoughts. Your thoughts are bad.

  paragraph 3: You know the JW promise. You believe the JW promise. You want the JW promise. Unfortunatly you have strong thoughts of non-jw things.

  paragraph 4: You can control your thoughts, if you really want to. Only you can control your thoughts. You need to read the WT publications. The WT publications must go deeper than your head. The WT publications must sink into your heart. You must have deep feelings about what you read in the WT publications so that you will want to do act on what they say.

  paragraph 5: How to learn to like JW rules: 1)meditate about JW rules. 2) think deeply about JW rules 3) think of bad things happening if you don't follow JW rules, like getting venereal disease and not being able to ever have children 4) think of disobedence to JW rules causing sadness, trouble, pain, emotional breakdown and suffering..

  and so on...

  Simple example of cruelty ( cruelty 1. deliberate infliction of pain or suffering):

  shunning, expecially of family members.

  I begged my sister to let me take her new baby over to see our mother. "Can't she at least meet her grandson?" I asked. Nope, she said. "If I allow that how will Mom learn and how will I be standing firm? I will not compromise my faith in Jehovah." She almost seemed happy about what she was doing, proud. Made me want to throw up. That was I guess about a decade ago. Our mother still does not know her grandchildren and has not spoken directly to my sister in all that time.

  I don't think you can imagine the amount of pain my sister is inflicting on my mother, day after day, month after month, year after year. It is terrible cruelty. The worst kind of cruelty. I don't care if my sister doesn't think she is being cruel or if my sister somehow thinks black is white, up is down, and shunning is love.

  No matter what her reasons, she is deliberately inflicting huge amounts of pain and suffering on her mother, and that is cruel.
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  34

  Accused of thinking too much

  by biometrics in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been officially accused of "thinking too much".. i've tried to quit thinking, but i'm hoplessly addicted to it.i just can't seem to turn my brain off.. at times duing my school years i was accused of not thinking enough.

  now i'm guilty of thinking too much!.

  the brother even went on to say "could you imagine what the witness organisation if everyone was thinking independently like you do"?

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  lisaBObeesa

  Reminds me of when I was 15 or 16 years old and I confided some of my doubts to my best JW friend. I was so afraid of what she would say, how she would react. She smiled very warmly, and told me not to worry, she had some of the same doubts! Relief washed over me. I was not alone! But the relief didn't last long as the next thing she said was that she had gotten over those doubts, and that I could too, by employing a strategy her father told her about: Just don't think about them! "It really works!" she said with a huge smile. And that is when I knew I was really and truly on my own.
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  19

  My first talk with JWs at the door while on vacation

  by troubled mind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was the first time in almost eight years i have had a conversation with a jw .

  we were on vacation last week at my son and daughter in laws home .

  one morning the doorbell rang and as i went to answer it my daughter in law said she thought it was witnesses .

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  lisaBObeesa

  I am finding the same thing -- that the witnesses currently do not know what their beliefs are. I wonder if this is what the bOrg wants? Does this somehow work in favor of the bOrg?

  Sure it works in favor of the borg!

  If you don't know what a teaching IS, then you can't possibly THINK about that teaching.
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  88

  Former Long Time Elder: Why I am still in

  by James Jackson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a customer on my route with whom i have had some lively debates was his number 1 complaint is that "the witnesses have so many rules".

  last month i agreed with on this issue.

  he asked why the change, i told him that i have been doing some soul searching.

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  lisaBObeesa

  Then he asked the Big Question: Why are YOU still in?

  Because I have a teenage child at home, I have to instill some core principles in his life so hopefully he does not go crazy in his adult years like child 1 did".

  Basically, the group found big problems with your above statement. Not one person agrees with your reasoning here and I think we all think raising a kid a JW is damaging. Should we all have just said 'great post!' and moved along?

  Or do you actually want real feedback from people who have gone through what you are going through and what your teen is going through?

  We commented. You must decide if you think any of our comments have merit or not. You might think we all don't know what we are talking about. It's your call.

  Nobody is attacking you. We are just telling you what we have been through, what we learned, and what we think.

  And NOBODY is saying when you should leave the JWs right this minute or how you should leave or how long your should take. By all means take your time and help your family to 'wake up'. Do whatever you must for however long you must.

  But we are saying that staying a JW in order to give your kid morals is not a reason to stay a JW.

  I hope you understand we are on your side and we care very much.
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  88

  Former Long Time Elder: Why I am still in

  by James Jackson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a customer on my route with whom i have had some lively debates was his number 1 complaint is that "the witnesses have so many rules".

  last month i agreed with on this issue.

  he asked why the change, i told him that i have been doing some soul searching.

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  lisaBObeesa

  In fact, for a child raised JW to successfully navigate adolescence (try out identities/ideas/beliefs) the child MUST either rebel against the JW rules or lead a double life.

  It is either that, or they don't successfully form an identity until far into adulthood (too bad for their marrage mate and too bad for their kids and too bad for them and all those confused years) or they don't successfully form an identity of their own at all. :(

  So if you are going to raise your kid in the Jehovah's Witness Org, you should hope they will rebel or lead a double life so that the can develop in a healthy way! Seems wrong, doesn't it? But this is the BEST you can hope for raising a teen with JW rules.

  And they will be out there, trying stuff out, with no parental guidance or help at all because they can't tell their parents anything about what they are really doing or thinking.

  It is also very painful and confusing for all involved, trust me on that.
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  88

  Former Long Time Elder: Why I am still in

  by James Jackson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a customer on my route with whom i have had some lively debates was his number 1 complaint is that "the witnesses have so many rules".

  last month i agreed with on this issue.

  he asked why the change, i told him that i have been doing some soul searching.

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  lisaBObeesa

  IMO, Jehovah's Witnesses are not taught to have morals, they are taught to follow rules. They are taught that being moral means following all the WT rules, even when the WT rules are very immoral.

  For example, a Jehovah's Witness will completely shun a fellow human being, even their own child or parent. Treat the person right in front of them as if they don't exist, like they were dead. This is not moral. This is not Christian. This is not love. But they have been taught that it is!

  I think JWs actually have LESS morals than other people and I think they are not able to really tell what is right and wrong, what is loving and what is unloving.

  This is all because they have been taught to follow rules instead of taught to BE LOVING and to follow their God-given conscience.

  Also I believe that being raised a JW is not developmentally healthy for an adolescent.

  The developmental needs of adolescents are not met in the Org. Each stage of human development has certain needs, and these needs must be met for development to proceed in a healthy way. Infants need to learn to trust and to feel secure. Preschoolers need to practice doing things on their own (I can pour the milk myself!) School age kids need to DO stuff (bike ride, build models, play house, whatever) JWs can raise very developmentally healthy children, up to this point.
  But adolescents have needs, too. They NEED to try out identities (am I a preppy person? A rocker? An athlete?). They NEED to feel connected to a wide variety of peer groups to do it. They try out different clothes, music and friends. They need to question their beliefs and look for reasons for beliefs. JW parents who insist on following the JW rules cannot allow their children to meet these developmental needs. I believe forcing an adolescent to live by WT rules is abusive and damaging to their development.

  Failure to successfully develop an identity of their own leads to great difficulties in adulthood...'identity diffusion' =a self that is not fully developed or defined, not able to 'find' themselves or their direction in life, 'stuck' in the questions of adolescence

  or 'identity foreclosure' =“Identity foreclosed individuals have committed themselves to values and goals without taking time to explore alternatives. Instead, they accept a ready-made identity that authority figures (usually parents but sometimes teachers, religious leaders, or romantic partners) have chosen for them. Foreclosed individuals tend to be dogmatic, inflexible, and intolerant. Some use their commitments in a defensive way, regarding any difference of opinion as a threat. Most are afraid of rejection by people on whom they depend for affection and self-esteem (Frank, Pirsch, & Wtight, 1990: Kroger, 1995).”

  Just as a baby must crawl at a certain time, an adolescent must explore the world, make some of his own choices and decide what he believes. The JW faith does not allow this.
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  61

  600 people up and left the DC after the 'apostate' talk?

  by Julia Orwell in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  an 'apostate' inactive jw in america i know on facebook went to the dc and said fully 600 people left between the end of the apostate talk and the lunch break.

  have any of you who also went to the dc seen something like this happen?

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  lisaBObeesa

  It is so disgusting how they keep saying 'human apostates' They first carefully identify Satan as the 'orignial apostate' and then bring out the 'human apostate' label....

  ...if the 'orginal aposate' is The Devil, then 'human apostates' are 'Human Satans' or 'human devils'...so disgusting.

  Really, more disgusting than the 'mentally diseased' label. After all, if someone is mentally diseased, they are sick and you might be temped to feel some compassion for them, even though you might stay away from them for your own protection.

  But if someone is THE DEVIL you can and should really and truly hate them.

  I swear this is NLP stuff.
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  469

  Valedictorian Rips Up Preapproved Speech, Recites Prayer Instead

  by Sam Whiskey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  really proud of this young man for his speech.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nir4zbz18e.

  .

  http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-now/valedictorian-rips-preapproved-speech-recites-prayer-instead-172941933.html.

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  lisaBObeesa

  sam said:

  When you're 73% of the population, you have a unique ability to "exert pressure" in ways the minority cannot.

  Wow.

  WOW. If you are a christian you get to push people around? You have some special power or right over other Americans? You get to "excert pressure" while others cannot?

  You are NOT more special or more American or have more rights in this country because of your religion. You DO NOT have the right to "excert your pressure" on others in tax-payer funded public schools that are for EVERYONE, not just YOU.

  You and all Christians have the SAME rights to free speech as everybody else and the SAME rights to go to public school without having someone else's religion forced on you. You get NO special extra rights to push other people around.