Posts by lisaBObeesa

for those of you interested in why your rational arguments and reasoning, in addition to well documented information do little to sway the beliefs of true believers (family, friends, and loved ones), the reason as offered in the following article is survival.. http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-11/beliefs.html.

offered humbly for your perusal,.

cpiolo.

lisaBObeesa

That is a very interesting article and thread!

I know that the two people who helped me to see the error of my beliefs both were people who always treated me and my beliefs with respect. While I often got heated in my arguments, they never did. In fact, they would stop talking with me if I started to get defensive or 'excited.' Not only did I actually LISTEN to what they had to say, I also was forced to face the fact that my reactions to opposing views was less than polite, or respectful.

--LisaBobeesa

20

JW Kids

by patio34 in

jw
friends

greetings and felicitations to all,.

tonight i attended my first al-anon meeting--it's for families of alcoholics.

i've been having trouble with my daughter and drugs.. but anyway, the meeting was in a catholic church area.

lisaBObeesa

Hi Pat,

Just wanted to share that I am also a member of Al-anon. Although I am not a 'die hard member', I can also say this program saved my life. I don't go to meetings regularly (something about going to any type of 'meetings' regularly is impossible for me these days. Maybe it's because they are called 'meetings'?), and I don't follow all the unspoken 'rules', but as they say, I take what I like and leave the rest! Anyway, I learned a lot about ME from Al-anon. I learned what things are MY job and what things are not. I learned to have some peace in my life even if someone else in my life is spinning like a top! I also learned a lot form reading the AA book, especially the chapters 'To the Wives' and "How it Works".

REGARDING JW kids:

Growing up JW I learned the rules quick: NO FUN ALOWED! I swear that was the rule. We couldn't have a party because it could be 'dangerous'. We couldn't see a concert because it could be 'dangerous. We couldn't be in a club at school because it could be dangerous. Because you know, FUN can lead to other things, like JOY, or, God forbid, HAPPINESS. It was stupid. I had no respect for the rules, because they were stupid.

I would have been a perfect child for my parents if I had had a shred of freedom. But I turned to sneaking out of the house, and various other things that really WERE dangerous, just so I could have a social life and have some fun. My parents where soooo strict. Our hall was strict, too. Very few parties were ever put together for the teens. And when they where, someone always got into trouble for some stupid thing like 'dancing inappropriatly' or playing 'worldly music'. The following 6 months would be devoid of any social activities of any interest to us.

I had felt so guilty sneeking out of the house to see my friends. I took a course in Adolescent Development a few years ago and learned that teens NEED to be social, they NEED to be connected to various groups and activities, they NEED to make some of their own decisions....Now I realise that by sneeking out I was doing something I NEEDED to do to grow up (being social, making my own decisions, being connected to other groups). I feel sorry for the many JW kids who were kept in 'jail' for their teen years. They missed an important part of growing up. I used to feel guilty, but now I am glad I was a rebel!

Thanks for listening,
LisaBoBeesa

PS sorry my spelling is so terrible.

113

Please Respond To Survey! 25 more needed please.

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

it seems like to me the majority of people who are in the truth, are were in the truth was a result of either a family member are a friend witnessing to them and not many seem to have been found in the door to door work.. from my years of associating with the borg i cannot recall many coming in the truth from the door to door work.. how were you sucked in?

for me it was my aunt who has now even though i am not disfellowshipped decided to write me out of her will to the tune of about $150,000.00 (maybe i should hang around a couple more years)dont think i will.. please respond .

thanks.

lisaBObeesa

ME: Born into the Borg.
BOTH PARENTS: hooked by door to door witnessing!!

----LisaBObeesa

21

Does unkind talks make you a better person?

by beroea in

jw
friends

does unkind talks make you a better person?.

i notice a tendency to use very rough words describing each other and their posts.

some may think that if we can make other people thing unworthy we are the ones on the top.

lisaBObeesa

Someone said:

"I say this as in comparison to other sites that have a more cozy friendly style."

Where, pray tell, can I find one of these boards with a more friendly style?

---Looking for polite, thoughtful and open minded conversation about recovering from the Borg,
LisaBObeesa

an email I got....

by lisaBObeesa in

jw
friends

i thought i would share with you all this email i got the other day.

i have no idea where it came from!.

dear brother or sister:.

lisaBObeesa

I thought I would share with you all this email I got the other day. I have no idea where it came from!

Dear Brother or Sister:

I haven't been in very close touch for several years now, and have been curious as to what the thinking currently is on where we are in the stream of time, and especially if it's beginning to be believed that Jehovah's people will ultimately have to take an active role in bringing about the fulfillment of Jehovah's purposes. It's great to find that what I want to know is easily accessible here on-line.

I recall hearing various discussions on just about every detail of every subject imaginable. Most of what was believed gave me something to look forward to. But what eventually caused me to drift away were those who claimed that God's true people might have to engage in some violence to help Him carry out His purposes, just as his Chosen People the Jews had had to. I just couldn't believe that it could be necessary.

But with all that has gone on in the world in the past several years, it seems that they may have been right. So it makes sense that the Governing Body was completely replaced a little over a year and a half ago. Perhaps the new leaders will vote in such a way that the direction will be given to help put it all in motion. Many may balk--but the years of blind obedience to whatever the Faithful and Discreet Slave has decreed will prove to be advantageous. Believe one thing today, and its opposite next week--perfect training for Jehovah's people to be able to do what otherwise might be difficult.

It won't be easy to take a knife and go out and kill several of your favorite family or acquaintances. But of all the various possibilities that I heard entertained by various Elders and Overseers those years ago, that one seems most in line with Bible prophecy. No goats--that is, those who are not sheep, but who are against The Truth--will survive Armageddon. They will be destroyed forever, with no chance for a resurrection. But if they are already dead when Armageddon comes, then they will have a chance.

The other prophecy which such action will help to fulfill is that of preaching the good news of the Kingdom to everyone before the end comes. Most people in the U.S. have heard of Jehovah's people--but sadly, all that the vast majority know is that they go door to door pushing their religion. Most people know very little about that True Religion--instead, they are filled with the lies they have been told. But when the Faithful begin to slaughter the unclean peoples, it will be widely reported in the newspapers and on TV, and will give Jehovah's people the opportunity at last to declare the Good News about the Kingdom. The goats will then have their last chance to join the Great Crowd. Sadly, however, most will attempt instead to destroy God's people, which will then bring destruction upon them.

This idea that Jehovah's people should begin Armageddon has no doubt been prevalent in other countries for years, where such slaughter of their enemies has been going on forever. But, sadly, in the U.S. people have become a bit squeamish when it comes to the reality of what must transpire. Apparently the Faithful and True servant has felt it necessary to keep such ideas from the ministers who are working so hard to spread the good news. And, no doubt, they have been wise to do so, wanting to wait until the time is right. Maybe until the one-millionth Witness is dedicated and baptized?

But it needs to happen soon, as various elements within the Organization have taken on many very worldly characteristics. The lust for power and money has consumed many. Sadly that has been an outgrowth of teaming with Jimmy Swaggert in the fight against the IRS in the early 1990s. But something had to be done. It would have been much easier to let each individual publisher be responsible for his or her own taxes--but then some control would have been relinquished, and that cannot be allowed to happen until after Armageddon. The end really does justify the means.

Another reason that it needs to happen soon is that rumblings are being heard about possible class-action lawsuits being filed against various groups of Elders. The recent and current crop of lawsuits concerning harboring of pedophiles is but the tip of the iceberg. Enough money has been set aside to settle those claims. But if ten thousand disfellowshipped and/or disassociated ones come forward as a class and demand justice and restitution for invasion of their privacies and for lewd questions being asked concerning their immoral acts, it could bankrupt the Society. "Loose lips sink ships", and there may be enough people who have overheard various comments about various Elders enjoying "listening to the girls" or "hearing the stories of the boys" to begin to realize what they mean. And, obviously, many have gone beyond merely listening or looking. The warning to those young people that if they tell they will be destroyed has worked so far--but their numbers are seemingly about to reach a critical mass.

And it is the Society's obsession with record-keeping which could be their undoing, just as it was for the Nazis after World War Two. Records have been kept of all those who were disfellowshipped and disassociated, the reasons why (mostly for immorality, no doubt), and the elders involved. In any class-action lawsuit, company records are subpoenaed so that potential members of the class may be contacted and given the opportunity to join the class. Perhaps someone needs to begin thinking about destroying some of those records. Also in the records no doubt are the Society's deliberations and decision-making processes concerning which controversies to promote most heavily in each new country the "Good News" was taken to. Controversy gets publicity, makes the people feel good and persecuted, and even gets some sympathy. It also gets people killed some places. But to have one policy in one country and its opposite in another can't be right.

The repression of the natural sexual urges of adolescents is a very dangerous business. The energy thus harnessed can, if channeled properly, be put to many very productive uses. But, unfortunately, those repressed adolescents grow up to be repressed adults (adults, at least, in body) who then take advantage of their positions of trust so that their own sexual fantasies may be fulfilled. The energy thus produced is very difficult to control. So it is that no doubt the Governing Body is planning to direct the final channeling of that energy.

How will it happen? I imagine a simple announcement in The Watchtower stating: "Look for an extremely important announcement in the Watchtower six weeks hence. New understandings give no doubt that the end of the wicked system of things is very near indeed." Then the announcement, eagerly awaited, will be made--but the magazines will not be mailed out. Instead, they will be hand-delivered by trusted servants only to every Kingdom Hall for study on that Sunday. And the exciting news will be given: "You will personally help to bring about the fulfillment of Jehovah's purposes". Events will happen very quickly. Even if only half of the million Witnesses fulfill their obligation to kill two or three unbelievers, over a million dead will certainly get the attention of Satan's governments and His handmaiden Christendom. They will attempt to destroy you, but Jehovah will save you.

Or so you believe. Will you have the courage to act when action is decreed necessary, or will you ultimately be shown not to believe that which you have been preaching for over 100 years?

P.S.--a special thank you goes to brother Stephen ********* of *** *** Street North, Twin Falls, ID 83301 for helping me to a better understanding of most of the above and of much, much more concerning how some of the Elders and Overseers think and act and what their primary concerns are.
---------------------------------

The full name and address of the JW mentioned in the 'PS' was on this email! Not cool. But an interesting email.......

--LisaBobeesa

95

I witnessed to the Christians last night--LOL!

by LDH in

jw
friends

thought you all would enjoy this.. i went to a b'day party for a friend who is a bible-thumper in the worst way!

(10x worse than most jw).. i'm sitting around like a zombie while everyone is talking about how "blessed" they are to "know christ" blah blah blah blah blah.. then my interest got peaked as one of the women started quoting scripture talking about how the reason her life is blessed is that her great great grandmother was a russian mennonite blah blah blah and the bible says that god will bless your offspring if you come to know him.

blah blah blah.. so i start asking a few well placed questions like "well what does that mean for the poor muslim sop whose great great grandmother was a muslim?

lisaBObeesa

Question: Why is it that exJWs often get more offended by Christians expressing their faith than the genneral, non-Christian public?

Question: Why do ex-JWs enjoy arguing with Christians?

Question: When someone says they believe in the Trinity because of what they read in the Bible, WHY MUST we tell them they are WRONG? Why not just say, "Interesting belief."

Question: And if we insist on telling them they are wrong and why, then what is it that makes us any different than the Christian you THINK is preaching to you?

Question: Why are we so POSITIVE we are RIGHT? (Hummmm.......Wern't we just as sure we were right when we were.....?) Isn't there the smallest possibility we could be WRONG about some Biblical issues?

HINT:
What other group likes to argue with main stream Christians, feels that they MUST tell people of other faiths that they are WRONG, and is absolutly, 100% sure they are correct in everything they believe they know about the Bible? What other group is unable to see any reason why people could possibly believe differently unless they are stupid or ignorant?

10

Right to "Sow the Seeds of Doubt"?

by JanH in

jw
friends

from time to time exjws may face the question of whether they should do anything to cause doubts in the minds of their jw family or friends.

many argue that these people are happier where they are, inside the organization, and that becoming an "apostate" would cause too many problems to them.

in other words, perhaps "ignorance is bliss.".

lisaBObeesa

Thanks for the article! Very interesting!

On Sewing doupts:
As far as JWs go, I ask questions or share my point of view on a subject, if they bring something up first (and they always do!).
Of course, I do this with all types of people who are trying to 'sell' me something. Mostly, I guess I am trying to get them to be HONEST, to really realize what it is they are saying they believe.

The only time I wouldn't do this is in the case of a child. Kids are just off limits in my book.

95

I witnessed to the Christians last night--LOL!

by LDH in

jw
friends

thought you all would enjoy this.. i went to a b'day party for a friend who is a bible-thumper in the worst way!

(10x worse than most jw).. i'm sitting around like a zombie while everyone is talking about how "blessed" they are to "know christ" blah blah blah blah blah.. then my interest got peaked as one of the women started quoting scripture talking about how the reason her life is blessed is that her great great grandmother was a russian mennonite blah blah blah and the bible says that god will bless your offspring if you come to know him.

blah blah blah.. so i start asking a few well placed questions like "well what does that mean for the poor muslim sop whose great great grandmother was a muslim?

lisaBObeesa

Someone once said to me that an exJW has a wound. They have been lied to by religion. They have been hurt very deeply by friends and relatives in the name of religion. They have been 'true believers' and got the biggest shaft ever imaginable in return for that belief.

Any reminder is actually painful. It's the scab being torn of the wound. Someone says 'Thank you Jesus' and we cringe. Funny how we don't cringe when someone says, "Thank you Allah." Is it REALLY because we don't hear 'Allah' as much as 'Jesus', or is it a deep, unconscious reaction that makes us want to barf when we hear a happy Christian? And how often is the Christian really (outside of these type of forums) trying to 'cram their beliefs down our throats'? They don't even have to do THAT, do they? They only have to say, "Thank you Jesus" and our reaction is instant. Sometimes our comments to them are 'instant' too. How often are WE the ones challenging their beliefs and thus, just asking for an arguement?

And why is it that we generalize Christians? Where do we get this unspoken idea that Christian=fundie? Perhaps the reason is that NON-fundy Christians wouldn't be arguing with us or telling us that we are going to hell, and so we have no frame of reference. The world isn't back and white, and neither is Christianity. There are shades of grey all around us. Beautiful shades of gray. Throuble is we were trained not to see them. We don't even really believe they exsist.

---LisaBobeesa
(PS yes, I know nobody actually said, 'Christian=fundie' but some seem to hold this belief.)
Thanks for listening!