@Michelle: but, if by free will, we mean "the ability to choose to serve God or not," and God cannot choose not to serve himself, and thus does not have that option of "sinning," then how can he give that which he does not have to lower life forms? And how come we can be good or bad, but only he can be good? If we consider him the source of good, and the devil the source of evil, then why get mad at Satan and Adam and Eve for opening up those options? Furthermore, if he did not create evil, he did not create free will. The rebellious creation did. And if they did, then free will does not originate with God, but with the lower, disobedient life forms.
Pika_Chu
JoinedPosts by Pika_Chu
-
277
What say you Christians ???
by wobble init seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
-
-
-
277
What say you Christians ???
by wobble init seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
-
-
Pika_Chu
@Tammy: perhaps superior in virtue, but not in "empowerment." Then again, choosing good or evil is not the only kind of empowerment one may have. I figured most rebuttals would be because of the definition of empowerment and the definition of free will. I think my argument would work, given some popular concepts of what "free will" and "empowerment" mean. But the argument DOES depend on how we define those terms.
And the ability to destroy us is restricted by his superior virtue. Depending on how you read into that, of course. Does he simply choose not to out of love? Does love restrict or inhibit, in his case?
-
8
Atheism: Evidence (Part I)
by leavingwt infrom youtube user evid3nc3.
(the full playlist of this video series is here: why i am no longer a christian.).
i lay the philosophical groundwork for my epistemological position of evidentialist foundationalism by contrasting it with the first principles journey of the rationalist descartes.. .
-
-
Pika_Chu
Woohoo! Praise be to Raptor Jesus!
-
77
To My Fellow Atheists...
by Pika_Chu ini present to you:.
quite possibly the worst attempt at apologetics ever.... .
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/nogod.html.
-
-
Pika_Chu
whoops, sorry, another thought here: I agree with Tammy that reward should not be the basis of morals. Love should. I don't believe in God, but I believe in love. I don't think this love comes from him though.
-
77
To My Fellow Atheists...
by Pika_Chu ini present to you:.
quite possibly the worst attempt at apologetics ever.... .
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/nogod.html.
-
-
Pika_Chu
By the way, I do not reject all the concepts of Christianity. Just the idea of the Christian God. Like I said in another thread created by Wobble, I live my life loving others and "turning the other cheek." I also believe that all of us, Christian, Atheist, etc., are all just searching for the real truth to life's biggest questions anyway. Having said that, I think this is something that should unite humanity, not tear it apart, like it has done, historically. But that's not JUST religion. People will hate each other, people will love each other, most of us don't even no each other or ourselves...
-
77
To My Fellow Atheists...
by Pika_Chu ini present to you:.
quite possibly the worst attempt at apologetics ever.... .
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/nogod.html.
-
-
Pika_Chu
@Sab and Tammy: Thank you for the thoughtful words. But I believe love is purely the result of empathy created in the brain, and life (as we know it, anyway), is a mixture of carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, etc. No offence, but that's just how I look at things. And, Sab, what you said was interesting. Things can and do exist without APPARENT reason, but I don't think god should be just this hard to prove. I don't think I'm being stubborn, but I don't see reasons to believe he exists. I know you exist and I don't have to be proven that. Then again, you readily interact with me. It strikes me as very odd that god does not interact with people (at least, not the way I see it). I God who doesn't act like he's there may as well not exist. Again, no offence, but this is merely my perspective.
-
277
What say you Christians ???
by wobble init seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
-
-
Pika_Chu
@myelaine: so, you're saying free will didn't exist until Adam and Eve sinned? Did I understand that correctly?
-
77
To My Fellow Atheists...
by Pika_Chu ini present to you:.
quite possibly the worst attempt at apologetics ever.... .
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/nogod.html.
-
-
Pika_Chu
@Psac: alrighty. But I get the impression you think I'm some sort of lost soul or something. Lol.
By the way, anyone else want to comment on that site...?
-
77
To My Fellow Atheists...
by Pika_Chu ini present to you:.
quite possibly the worst attempt at apologetics ever.... .
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/nogod.html.
-
-
Pika_Chu
@Psac, I think this is where our opinions really start to diverge. I do not believe he has revealed himself in "his" word, nor to I believe the universe gives testimony to him. But I will admit that there may be a god out there. I just don't see the evidence to warrant that conclusion. But the "god" question is one of those important questions in life that no one knows the anwer for sure. We can only be either pretty sure he exists, pretty sure he is impossible, pretty sure he is improbable, or somewhere between that 0% and 99.99999....%, but we can never know for sure. But mysteries still make life interesting. Not all skeptics are killjoys, and I like not knowing for sure. But I just don't think he is PROBABLE.
-
277
What say you Christians ???
by wobble init seems to me that most, if not all christians are really hung up on sin and redemption from sin and how naturally evil we all are.. my question, and observation is this : i had nothing to do with whatever you say adam and eve did wrong, i have always, throughout my life, treated whoever i came into contact with compassion, respect and love.. i have lived by the golden rule.. not many people, hand on heart, can say that, i can.. so, is your god going to judge me for the "sin" of some mythical forebears of mine ?
is he going to say that , because i did not believe in him, i willl be judged adversely, even though i lived by the precepts he is supposed to support ?.
all i can say is, if your god is like that, i refuse to worship or acknowledge him.. and i certainly do not want to get to know him.
-
-
Pika_Chu
Let's see how he gets around this one...Lol.