Posts by Locutus

15

"religious confession" HELP NEED INFO

by JT in

my cdrom disk is not working- does anyone have any infor that you have saved in your archieve that deals with "religious confession".

on date line it was mentioned as a poster has brought out that the elder tried to invoke confession as a reason not to tell anyone.

i would be interested to see what comments that the wt has made on the issue of confessions.

Locutus

I'll work on getting the Mesa Tribune article scanned and I'll send it to the owner of the quotes page. In the mean time there is a typo correction - "Bill Van De Wall...and this week" should be "said this week."

15

"religious confession" HELP NEED INFO

by JT in

my cdrom disk is not working- does anyone have any infor that you have saved in your archieve that deals with "religious confession".

on date line it was mentioned as a poster has brought out that the elder tried to invoke confession as a reason not to tell anyone.

i would be interested to see what comments that the wt has made on the issue of confessions.

Locutus

Thanks for the WT articles. At first, I felt like someone was trying to turn me into a JW by starting a topic that I would read and spamming Awake!’s in it, and if so - "Do Not Call." I have a lot of pain associated with the WT. I’ve never been in a KH, and never want to be. However, I have done research over the years into the WT. Doing so has been therapeutic, and finally joining in on discussions is a big step for me.

The point I was trying to make is this -

Although there are exceptions in some states, conversations between a Catholic and a priest during confession are "privileged and confidential", they are inadmissible into a court of law. Same holds true for rabbi’s, etc. It sounded to me like that is what Mr. White was trying to do, keep evidence from being entered by claiming "the confidentiality of the confessional."

When I said "admitted into court" in my other post, I don’t mean admitting in court to doing the crime, I mean evidence that can be entered or is admissible into court records so the jury can consider it when deliberating the case.

I have seen some of the offensive "Golden Age" cartoons that bag Catholic’s, so I was wondering what they’ve said about the confessional. From the first article above, it seems to me they first say others use of it is meaningless, but JW’s should use it by "going to the elders." Sorry if it was a dumb question.

I did some searching and found something interesting in the Witness Inc. book "Refutation of Preparing for Child Custody Cases." On pages 157-158 there is a copy of a news article from the The Mesa Tribune, dated 10/3/87.

It starts with :
<Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide are being order to ignore confidentiality requirements in legal, medical, and other private records and obey the "highest level of authority" when a fellow member is discovered to have been involved in serious sin.>

and later says :
<Bill Van De Wall, a Jehovah’s Witness spokesman in Brooklyn, N.Y., where the Watchtower is published, and this week he was convinced all Witnesses would be grateful for such help even if their confidential records were made public.>

Then on page 162 it shows page 15 from the September 1, 1987 of the WT :
<The may be occasions when a faithful servant of God is motivated by his personal convictions, based on his knowledge of God’s word, to strain or even breach the requirements of confidentially because of the superior demands of divine law.>

So, if I were a judge and Mr. White told me he needed confidentiality, and then the prosecution countered with the above, I’d rule for the prosecution. My concern is that most lawyers (like the general public) know very little about the WT, so if the WT claims statements made to an elder are "privileged and confidential", most lawyers would not be able to argue the point.

I can try to get the Mesa Tribune article scanned if anyone thinks it would be helpful. If I’m wasting everyone’s time, just let me know and I’ll shut-up.

I do have an attention getting screen name, huh ? Let me know if I should change it. But, Captain Picard (also known as Locutus) did defeat the Borg when they tried to take over planet Earth.

9

A Canadian Elder Speaks Out!

by silentlambs in

dear brother bowen:.

i have not yet seen the dateline program.

however, i have set my vct to record it this evening, when i will be at the book study.

Locutus

After reading some of the UK BOE letters posted, and the following from Dateline, I get the feeling "confidentiality" is the legal means the WTBTS plans on using to keep all those "special blue envelopes" from being opened (and admitted into court.)

LARSON: (Voiceover) White also told the court that when a church member is called before the elders and admits to a crime, they consider it a religious confession and that, just like a priest or rabbi, he and other elders have good reason not to testify about it in court.

Mr. WHITE: (From audio tape) Jehovah's Witnesses do not want to harbor
criminals or dangerous people. But we want the confidentiality because if that's taken away from us, why should a person ever confess anything?

What has the WTBTS publications said in the past about "religious confession" (for example the Catholic's use of it ?) If they have said negative things about it, those statements could be used to show that a "judicial committee" is not a "religious confession", and therefore not protected by confidentiality laws.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but my opinion is that all the envelopes can be opened as the WTBTS is not a religion, but a magazine and book publishing company, and is therefore ineligible to claim "confidentiality" in such manners.

Bill - I'm just trying to help, and keep up the good work.

Locutus

Attention Carnivore :

by Locutus in

jw
friends

as reported in the news regarding new fbi policies :.

"apparently attorney general ashcroft wants to get the fbi back in the business of spying on religious and political organizations," said margaret ratner of the center for constitutional rights.

please start here : www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/dateline.htm.

Locutus

As reported in the news regarding new FBI policies :

======
"Apparently Attorney General Ashcroft wants to get the FBI back in the business of spying on religious and political organizations," said Margaret Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights.
======

Please start here : www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/dateline.htm

Locutus

1

60Minutes- WT child testifies father molested her?

by Locutus in

airdate : december 27, 1992. topic : jehovah's witnesses (conflict between welfare of child and divorced parent's freedom of religion) .

transcript : 1-800-777-8398, or see http://www.burrelles.com/transcripts/cbs/sixm92.htm (bottom of the page) and http://www.burrelles.com/transcripts/tranburr.htm.. i've lost my copy of the transcript, but this is my recollection of one part of the broadcast : .

the show is from about ten years ago, but still very relevant today.

Locutus

Airdate : December 27, 1992
Topic : Jehovah's Witnesses (conflict between welfare of child and divorced parent's freedom of religion)

Transcript : 1-800-777-8398, or see http://www.burrelles.com/transcripts/cbs/sixm92.htm (bottom of the page) and http://www.burrelles.com/transcripts/tranburr.htm.

I've lost my copy of the transcript, but this is my recollection of one part of the broadcast :

The show is from about ten years ago, but still very relevant today. It dealt with WT child custody cases and what life was like for kids in the WT (no birthdays, no friends / activities outside of the WT, etc.) and the excellent work done by Duane Magnani (www.witnessinc.com) in child custody cases involving the WTBTS.

1) Watchtower lawyers represented a JW wife in a child custody case against (ex-JW or non-JW) husband.

2) Their young daughter (around 6 years old) testifies in court that her father had molested her.

3) Later she testifies than an elder (who was her grandfather) told her to lie in court and say her father had molested her.

4) 60 minutes confronts the person "unofficial representing" the WT, who dismisses it by saying something like "false allegations of molestation are usual in custody cases."

5) 60 Minutes then reveals they did research and found that in JW vs. ex-JW custody cases, it happens much more than usual.

Between Dateline and 60 Minutes, I get the feeling the WT policy on child abuse is "if you're a JW, we'll cover it up, if you a non-JW, we'll make it up."

Again, this is my recollection, transcript post anyone ? Watching the segment is better than just reading the transcript, maybe 60 Minutes should rebroadcast it as it was very insightful into the life of children in the WTBTS.

Locutus