Posts by Knowsnothing

132

"Believers" vs. Atheists- Why this formulation?

by Band on the Run in

i believe christ is god.

when i left the witnesses i believed i had to be agnostic.

through a scheduling conflict, i studied the new testament in college.

Knowsnothing

Really, the only 'believers' represented here are Christians. 'Believers' could be Muslims, Jews, Mormon's, etc., but I've yet to see one on here.

106

If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

by cofty in

imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Knowsnothing

Cofty, you never really addressed this important point I brought up in the first page, regardless of how bad an apologist I am.

Why does God allowing pain constitute a judgment against him? What about is it about suffering that merits condemning God? What if there is purpose to the suffering, in the grand scheme of things?

The 'meter' you propose is something subjective. How can you accurately measure pain/suffering?

106

If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

by cofty in

imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Knowsnothing

We don't have the power to end all the suffering in this world. But we could at least end that which we cause, ourselves. We just don't. As long as that

remains, no matter what God wants for us, and no matter what he has taught or continues to teach through his Son, we will continue to suffer.

Let's suppose we all followed Christ's Law, and mitigated suffering as much as humanly possible. We still have a whole series of natural events that are against our happiness, our health, and our survival. Love and kindness isn't going to stop disease, earthquakes, predation, tsunamis, volcanic erruptions, and the avalanche of other innumerable threats we face. Love and kindness is great and all, but it's not how the world works.

12

Would this lie count as sin?

by Knowsnothing in

http://edgeofcivilization.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/lies-and-politics/.

the story however starts years earlier when themistocles, a politician and general campaigned for money to build a stronger navy against a probable persian attack.

the athenians didnt believe him comfort, complacent and confident.

Knowsnothing

Why, tammy? He saved the Athenians an unwanted invasion. Was there any other way to get them motivated to build a navy? Perhaps. Was there much time left for action? No. What exactly does he need to be forgiven for, saving his apatheic people through the use of deception?

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

Knowsnothing

Here it is, unstopable. Would this lie count as a sin?

12

Would this lie count as sin?

by Knowsnothing in

http://edgeofcivilization.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/lies-and-politics/.

the story however starts years earlier when themistocles, a politician and general campaigned for money to build a stronger navy against a probable persian attack.

the athenians didnt believe him comfort, complacent and confident.

Knowsnothing

http://edgeofcivilization.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/lies-and-politics/

The story however starts years earlier when Themistocles, a politician and general campaigned for money to build a stronger navy against a probable Persian attack. The Athenians didn’t believe him – comfort, complacent and confident. And most importantly, they’d rather increase their personal wealth of Athenians than do anything to protect the common good.

Feeling strongly the need for a stronger navy, Themistocles did what many politicians have done

throughout the centuries; he lied. He told the

Athenians the small island of Aegina was planning to attack merchant ships, and they need to invest in the navy to protect their commerce. The Athenians agreed to give money to Themistocles’ navy.

Themistocles was proven just when he had built a significant navy to battle Persians forces. The interesting thing to note is Themistocles lie to the Athenians may have saved Ancient Greek civilization. Had the Persians won decisive victories at sea against Themistocles and beaten King Leonidas our modern world culture may be significantly different.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

Knowsnothing

knowsnothing ur first piont still it would not matter if you accidently killed someone in a car accident you can still be held resposable manslaughter.

How do I put this, unstopable? Accidents are avoidable. Being born with sin isn't. You go into the court house, and you are pressumed guilty until proven innocent. You are never innocent, because you are born. Just being born is a sin. Can you really fathom that?

and how can you say you never sinned on purpose can you tell me that you never lied lusted after a women on purpose.

That's true. I have. We were talking about inherited sin alone. Now you bring up intentional sin. That is where point two is applicable. You can't just have Jesus come in and save the day because you intentionally lied or lusted. How do you pay for that sin? I'm going to start a new topic on sin. I've got an interesting example that I think will be difficult for apologists to deal with.

106

If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

by cofty in

imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Knowsnothing

It's clear there is no god. How could a god who loves his children allow them to suffer so much?

You're allowing emotions to get in the way. You forget that suffering ends, at some point in time.

If there is a god, he/she/it should be accused of reckless disregard for the safety and happiness of mankind, for recklessly pursuing his own aims while causing/allowing universal suffering.

Well... what doeshe gain in causing/allowing universal suffering? What if there is purpose to it?

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

Knowsnothing

Unstopableravens
Post 176 of 179
Since 12/12/2010

cofty ok now onto ur next question about good just forgiving people without have the death of his son or anyone, if you went to court and someone was on trail for a crime and the judge believed the person was really sorry and he said you no sir you commited a robbery and stole 10,000 dollars and beat up that old couple who you stole from but ur sorry so im going to let this slide and have a good day. many would call into question what kind of judge is this wheres the payment for his crime where the justice. so god could do that just forgive but he would not be just in doing so.

Here is where your analogy fails. This guy purposely did something wrong. Inherited sin means you did something wrong, but not on purpose. Would it be fair if the judge didn't take this into account?

Another thing is this. Why would the judge let someone else get jail time, for something you did wrong. Only you can serve time for something you've done wrong, no one else can do that for you. It's not a question about money, it's a question about justice, about law.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

Knowsnothing

Let's start with sin, and specifically original sin. It is because of Adam and Eve we sin, correct?

We inherit sin. We've no choice in the matter. God hates, detests sin. Sin is whatever he deems it to be. Sin is what God doesn't like, what doesn't meet up to his standards. The minute we are born, we are already on God's black list! Since debt is always used as an analogy to understand sin, let's go down that avenue.

God is essentially a banker, one that hands out loans. Without him you can't start up a business (have life). In the case of Adam and Eve, he invested in them, in their life, with the hopes of returns (procreation, more human life). He gave them certain conditions they must agree to, and he wouldn't charge them anything. He would only collect debt (sin/death and transmission of sin/death to offspring) if they failed their side of the deal (eating from the tree/disobedience). They indeed did, and God collected. Here's the deal. People that weren't even born yet were entered into a contract they weren't there for! When these people come into being, they are already being asked to pay a debt they didn't even know about! The worse part? The banker has unlimited resources, but because he must stick to his own contract, he will continue to collect the debt time after time! What avarice!

At this point, I could mention Jesus, the nice wealthy guy comes in and pays it all off. Before we go any further, ask yourself, why do we even need to go that far? God already had the resources to pay the debt, he just didn't want to! It's not even fair to accept the nice guy's offer. All the banker has to do to forgive the debt.... is forgive the debt!