Posts by Knowsnothing

39

Are We Living At The End Of An Age?

by metatron in

jw
friends

i hardly know what else to call it.

i have felt many emotions in my life and anxiety, many times but this is different.. it's a sense of the impending, a build up of pressure like a wall of water behind a cracking dam.

when does it break?.

Knowsnothing

at least it won't be Armageddon!

Perhaps not in the Biblical sense, but how do you know we don't end up screwing ourselves up?

106

If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

by cofty in

imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Knowsnothing

"Should humans have the freedom to rape other humans?"

No. They also shouldn't have the freedom to murder, talk injuriously about others, lie, steal, or anything else that is bad.

That would mean, then, that God would've placed a just and righteous government. We would now be subject to him. Would you agree that to end such a world, it would have to be subject to God?

have a moral obligation to prevent a baby from dying in an overheating car.

Why? Where does this obligation come from?

its a non-argument.

Says you.

106

If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

by cofty in

imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Knowsnothing

Hmm... Rape is awful indeed, and yet I can think of many other equivalent sufferings, perhaps worse. The point is this, how much autonomy should humans have?

Allow me to rebutt with this. To some, porn is morally wrong. Say you like to watch porn, (if you are a male, I will assume you have watched it at some point in time). Should God interfere in your watching of porn, effectively prohibiting you and every individual on earth from such a practice?

Freedom comes at a price, bohm.

4

Hey WTS! Japan Is Totally Doomed

by metatron in

jw
friends

sales of adult diapers exceed those used for babies:.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-23/japanese-stocks-yes-they-really-think-so.

how do you borrow from your grandkids future if there are no grandkids?.

Knowsnothing

This is pretty sad... Japan reached great heights, and is now in its decline..

This other article is pretty interesting too.

106

If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

by cofty in

imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Knowsnothing

Spoiled children? A person who get raped and cry for god to save her while it is going on is a spoiled child? dude... that is so messed up.

I'm not saying rape is a good thing. You sure like to twist things up, build up a lot of strawmans...

Spoiled children in that we want to be masters of ourselves, yet complain to God to solve our problems.

I dont really think you are being honest with me, but if you are, i feel sorry for you. I can simply tell you i do not believe in god and can very easily make the moral distinction between hitler and (for instance) a nurse.

Let's not squirm at the implications, bohm. In a world in which we make the rules, in which morality is subjective, what makes Hitler 'right or wrong'? Let it be noted that I do not endorse his brutality, slaughter, and crimes perpetrated on humanity. I'll post a youtube vid. that will go to the heart of the issue in a bit.

Yah, and we would get a silly book which claimed it was okay to stone people and glorified genocide.. crazy shit.. And people might walk around

and tell each other why the crazy shit was actually moral, but it wouldnt be, because what is good or not does not have to do with what someone

wrote in a book.

It has everything to do with what people opine, unfortunately. Well, if you wish to entertain the discussion a bit, let's get into it.

So anyways, here is a debate with Sam Harris and William Lane Craig on Objective Morality. The debate starts at 4:50, and William is up first.

He makes a good point. Objective morality is independent of human opinion. Good is always good. Bad is always bad. He says, "to say that the Holocaust is objectively evil, is to say that it was evil, even though the Nazis who carried it out, thought that it was good. And it would still have been evil, even if the Nazis had won WWII, and succeeded in brainwashing or exterminating everyone who disagreed with them, so that everybody thought that the Holocaust was good."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8wUOUmM1OA

106

If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

by cofty in

imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Knowsnothing

Again your response does not work at the parking lot. God is slowly watching the baby get cooked and all the while I am supposed to think that he is sitting on his throne and going: "well, those people passing near the car, they should be more observant, they should notice there is a baby inside, bad on them". Cant you hear what a psychopat this is turning God into?

Hmmm.... How much do you expect God to intervene in human affairs? Would God saving all the collectively burning infants solve the world's problems? Would you prefer God to snap his fingers and make everything alright now? Why? Haven't people said they don't need God? Bohm, are you asking for God to bail you out?

God has also choosen. God never choose to do what he expect and demand we do.

For good reason. We think ourselves superior to God.

If i may translate the reply, god want to tell us we suck and that point is so valid to communicate he will allow children to be slaughtered by the millions; I

get the picture.

Exactly. We aren't fit to rule. Yet, we want God to intervene temporarily, or permanently come swoop down and end the suffering, yet continue on about our lives doing whatever we want. What spoiled children we are.

Morals without God are subjective. You can't claim anything is good or bad.

hahahahaha!!!

I laugh too! Who's morality is the most valid, then? Stalin? Hitler? Do you realize in a world without God, might makes right? You could show me all the different statistics about how horrible these men were, but on what/whose authority can you claim your ideology is superior, better than their's? If they had won the world, wouldn't they be writting and claiming what is good and what isn't? How is our current world any better? Freedom of expression? They can claim freedom of expression leads to divisiveness, and a continuation of war. Free market economy? Look at the shithole we are in now. Freedom of religion? More divisiveness. Etc. etc.

I think a perfect is example is the abortion issue in the US. Who is to say what is right and what is wrong? It is merely subjective.

On one side, they claim the woman is the ultimate arbiter of her body, which I can understand.

On the other side, they claim the life in the womb isn't being given a chance at life, which I can understand.

Is either right or wrong? Good or bad?

106

If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

by cofty in

imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Knowsnothing

What if there is purpose to the suffering, in the grand scheme of things? - knowsnothing

Please share what that might be - cofty

Universal Sovereignty. Should humans be allowed to rule themselves? Do humans have a right to live without God's intervention? What say you, cofty? Should you be a free moral agent? Do you get to decide what is good or bad, or are you supposed to subjugate yourself to what God says is good or bad?

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

Knowsnothing

Isn't being just the 100% application of law? Hell, even the Bible condemns being 'too just'.

Eccliastes 7:16 Be not over just: and be not more wise than is necessary, lest thou become stupid.

At the end of this long thread... my thoughts. What if I'm wrong? I potentially loose eternal life. Well... I had a good ride. Out of all the unspeakable odds, I was born and I existed. Millions upon billions of other people could've come into existence, yet I did. I beat those odds, if only for a few years. Then, I go back into the nothingness I came from. What a strange, fragile, yet beautiful thing life is.

546

non believers what if your wrong ?

by unstopableravens in

i do not wish to debate anything here like i have said in the past i have much respect for most on this forum (believers and non believers) i am simply wondering if the atheist or non god believers every worry about what if your wrong?

it seems that many who were jw for so many years attach jehovah/yahweh with the watchtower and since the wt is wrong than god does not exist.

i ask this question only because i care about people and salvation thats why i want to help as many as possable come out of this cult,and since i truly believe in god i dont know what is in the cinscience of those who dont.

Knowsnothing

Unstopable, the God of the Bible isn's 100% just. He is merciful, which breaks justice. He is also vengeful, which is contradictory from mercy.

In life, I have learned to embrace the contradictions. It is God's contradictions I cannot accept, being that the God the Bible proposes isn't supposed to be contradictory.

12

Would this lie count as sin?

by Knowsnothing in

http://edgeofcivilization.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/lies-and-politics/.

the story however starts years earlier when themistocles, a politician and general campaigned for money to build a stronger navy against a probable persian attack.

the athenians didnt believe him comfort, complacent and confident.

Knowsnothing

Well, it can be easy to tell one lie and convince yourself that it is for the good of people... then continue on to tell more.

Indeed, a slippery slope.

Plus... the invasion was probable, the claim goes. What if it was not going to happen, and the building of the army spurred it on.

On the other hand, what if nothing was done, and the invasion came? Would you let someone pillage your house?

What if it was not going to happen, and he convinced everyone that it was going to happen, and then instead of defending against an enemy, they invaded?

Wars are messy. Should I stop defending my country just because a friend of mine might be the casualty of friendly fire? Invasion wasn't likely, they only had enough for defence. It took some incredible military tactics to pull of the win they did.

Or something else happened to harm someone innocent, because of that lie?

The same goes for the truth.

He was proven right... or so the story goes... but how many instances of that go the other way? How many will justifiy their own deception (and would have been wrong) from this sort of thing?

Yes, we all attempt to justify when things go wrong.

Athenians: Themistocles, why didn't you build a navy?

Themistocles: You wouldn't give me the resources. You thought the Persian threat was over.

Athenians: Why didn't you try to convince us somehow?

Themistocles: I could've lied, but that would be wrong. Aren't you glad I didn't deceive you, and was moral?

Athenians: Ok, Themistocles. To thank your moral integrity, we will reward you with the privilege of being the first Persian slave!

Themistocles: Morality triumphs again!

You know the saying... oh what a tangled web we weave...?

Complex societies are a tangled mess, but we struggle through it and find a way to survive.