Knowsnothing

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Posts by Knowsnothing

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  41

  Who/what decides what is right and what is wrong?

  by Knowsnothing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it the united states of america?

  is it democracy?

  is it communism?

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  Knowsnothing

  KN: So the reason something is moral is because god deside it is moral?

  Sure, why not? It's no different than the examples I gave you. Certain Asians decide eating animals alive is not immoral, because they decide it.
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  106

  If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

  decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

  physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

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  Knowsnothing

  KN: you simply ignored my question:

  Bah... and you've ignored many of mine, simply repeating your one horse pony show of rape and burning babies. Bohm, you wished to engage in this conversation for reasons unknown. Cofty's OP assumes God exists. He proposes a God that acted through evolution to bring about man (theistic evolution). I'm not still fully convinced.

  Still, I can provide no evidence for my assertion of Bible God existing, so you've got me on that point. At that point, we can't even hold Bible God responsible for his inaction, because there is insufficient evidence for his existence. Gotcha.

  Now, you still haven't answered mine. Why do you allow that unborn baby to die, if you can prevent it? You're blaming a non-existent God's inaction for suffering, yet you claim you are better for your inaction. Please reconcile this.
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  41

  Who/what decides what is right and what is wrong?

  by Knowsnothing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it the united states of america?

  is it democracy?

  is it communism?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Knowsnothing

  you tell me, how does god establish something is moral or not? you can just quote craig if you like..

  If you look a bit further down the vid, I'll admit that WLC get's his ass handed to him. His main contention raises a good point, though. Any objective morality must be established by something/someone unchangeable. It must be absolute. We have seen from culture to culture, from empire to empire, that what is moral is subjective. Eating animals alive is a practice in some Asian countries. They see nothing wrong with it. Abortion isn't condemned in Western countries.

  Allow me to explain this as best I can. I think it makes sense to me. God, as the Ultimate Authority, also has the Ultimate Power. He has the power and authority to homogenize all the differing moralites and make it into one. This solves the problem of conflicting moral values that our pluralistic society offers. It feels as if we are always trying to offer something better, but it is that very action that ends up dividing us all, in the end.

  Put simply, if we could all agree on what is moral, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, but God as a perfect agent, has the power to consolidate one single, functional morality, regardless of what we think is and isn't. Sounds a bit dictatorial, but what better solution do you have?
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  106

  If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

  decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

  physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

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  Knowsnothing

  okay so the reason why god should not take the baby out of the overheated car is because of some actions by some other humans 6000 years ago which

  (incidently) you have no evidence ever took place? Is that correct?

  You're silly. I like that.

  The reason is the same reason you do not wish to intervene in the pregnant woman's decision to abort or not. It's her call. She calls the shots. You let her.

  i would if i believed it was a child.

  He who defines the terms, wins the debate. Good job.
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  41

  Who/what decides what is right and what is wrong?

  by Knowsnothing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it the united states of america?

  is it democracy?

  is it communism?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Knowsnothing

  The good part starts at 4 mins, 50 seconds. Sorry, but I guess youtube doesn't allow embedding time.

  All law and morality is essentially based on what offends our conscience.

  Too bad, I'm a psychopath. Nothing offends me, I am free to do as I choose.

  So you go with: "morals is not based on human oppinion", and then its apparently a cogent argument.

  So, God establishing morality is merely 'God's opinion'? It would seem to me that it surpasses mere opinion.
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  106

  If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

  decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

  physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

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  Knowsnothing

  The fundamental fallacy that is being comitted here is that we do not need to flesh out the perfect balance between intervention or not to figure out some extreme cases. For instance, when should we intervene in other parents parenting? we cant make a perfect standard, but that does not prevent us from making the clear and solid judgement you should intervene if the parents are having their children locked in the basement.

  For God's case, it's different. We can't hold him accountable. In the beginning, we asked for autonomy and we got it. He doesn't have to respond to us. He isn't accountable to us. We are accountable to him. It is he who would ask why we allowed what we allowed. Given that we were capable of stopping it, we would be inexcusable.

  God is hands off. For now, we do what we can and deal with the consequences, whether good or bad.

  You are still relectant to deal with the fact that there are, indeed, many examples of the very extreme cases you advocate for intervening with. WWI & II come to mind. In all those cases, it is a human problem, something of our choice. Eliminating these sources of suffering, while being great in the now, wouldn't alleviate the core problem. We still want to do whatever the hell we want! We don't want to be told what to do and not to do.

  Let me turn this on you now, and see how you would respond. You are pro-choice. Why aren't you intervening for the life of that innocent child in the womb? Does that mother have autonomy or not? Please, don't chicken out. I know this is a hard one.
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  10

  I dug deeper into the teachings of my Mormon faith . . and became JW

  by bats in the belfry in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  and also consulted with responsible mormon church leaders.

  i was told that the answers to my questions involved mysteries that one day would be solved as the light became brighter.

  (february 1, 2013, page 9).

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  Knowsnothing

  that one day would be solved as the light became brighter.

  Oh, the irony!!!
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  41

  Who/what decides what is right and what is wrong?

  by Knowsnothing in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it the united states of america?

  is it democracy?

  is it communism?

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  3. 
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  Knowsnothing

  Is it you? Is it me? Is it the United States of America? Is it democracy? Is it communism? What makes something right or wrong?

  I'll leave this video up as a starter.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8wUOUmM1OA#t=04m50s
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  106

  If There was a Cosmic Pain meter...

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  imagine that it was possible to precisely measure the amount of suffering in the world at any given moment - a cosmic "pain meter".

  decide for yourself what the unit of measurement would be.. we can only imagine a fraction of the combined suffering that is being felt right now.

  physical pain, emotional despair, grief, desperation, loss, terror and hopelessness.. of course if there is an omniscient god then he knows to the last iota what that theoretical meter would read right now.. the bible contains a number of answers to the question of suffering - ever since the babylonian exile one popular answer has been to blame his nemesis the devil, "we know that we are children of god, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Knowsnothing

  okay knowsnothing, but if you agree humans should not have the freedom to rape other humans then there is no reason to bring up the question of autonomy to begin with. you are not putting a coherent argument together, you are simply asking questions and then asking more questions and at no point actually getting close to answering the fundamental problem.

  Autonomy has everything to do with it. Does suffering stop at rape? Please stop pandering to rape, as if rape alone is a cause of suffering.

  The fundamental problem is why does god allow suffering. I didn't exactly come here with a specific argument in mind, I'm just exploring the limits of just how 'accountable' god is for allowing suffering, and how much a part we play in that as well.

  asking questions, changing subject. god can clearly prevent evils --for instance the baby in the overheated car from dying-- without putting up a heavenly government.

  That's true. He could do this one act without making a government. The thing is, however, that as I have repeated, that is not the only source of suffering. What else must he intervene in to satisfy you, without establishing some sort of government?

  You're also trying to shift the blame on god when a human is fully capable of preventing this evil. Ok, but now that we've addressed the issue of personal accountability, what about natural phenomena over which we have no control over, that cause suffering as well? Things like disease, death, famine produced by droughts, tsunamis, etc. We realize we are not in control of these things, though we may try. God is fully capable of ending these, yet doesn't. That's where this verse would come in: 1 Corinthians 15:24 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
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  39

  Are We Living At The End Of An Age?

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hardly know what else to call it.

  i have felt many emotions in my life and anxiety, many times but this is different.. it's a sense of the impending, a build up of pressure like a wall of water behind a cracking dam.

  when does it break?.

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  Knowsnothing

  at least it won't be Armageddon!

  Perhaps not in the Biblical sense, but how do you know we don't end up screwing ourselves up?