LoneWolf

Joined

• started 73 topics
• posted 511 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by LoneWolf

• 
  74

  I'm thinking of applying for reinstatement

  by Cygnus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, here's how it is.. i just finished reading the "dead" thread.

  now, listen.

  i do not believe in life after death.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LoneWolf

  Herbert ---

  to believe that sepia-tinted three-legged virgins live on Mars

  Not three legged. Three breasted. Much more attractive.

  LoneWolf
• 
  55

  OUR LAWYER'S LETTER TO WATCHTOWER & THERE R...

  by ARoarer in

  1. social
  2. current

  when an elder called us to "invite" us to the kh to meet with them to question us regarding accusations of apostasy, while another elder sneakily sat on another line as a "second witness", we, after not being active for several years, having no contact with anyone in the congregation, we felt their phone call was harrassing.

  we called our lawyers who drew up a letter that say:.

  watchtower bibel & tract society.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LoneWolf

  That you have been considering this too warms my heart.

  If there is anything I can do to help in these matters, I would love to. Keep in mind that I am "out", in the sense that they know who I am and how I stand. I fact, I have rubbed that in their faces and dared them to do something about it. That means I'd be happy to take the stand and testify if called on.

  How I'd like to be one of your witnesses in the meeting with the elders! Of course, I'd have to wrestle a few hundred others for that privilage. LOL.

  LoneWolf
• 
  129

  MANDATORY Reporting of Child Abuse

  by silentlambs in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  it appears there are a few misconceptions when it comes to the reporting of child abuse.

  the federal law child abuse prevention and treatment act (capta)(jan. 1996 version), 42 u.s.c.

  failure to report can result in civil liability.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LoneWolf

  silentlambs and dungbeetle ---

  Do us all a favor and can it. You're doing more harm to your cause than good.

  Bill, I wholeheartedly agree that the WTBTS is wrong in its approach and something needs to be done. However, your emotional approach and uncalled for name calling, even if successful, will lead to a solution that may even be worse than than the current status quo.

  As morrisamb has been trying to point out to you, these are extremely complicated situations and each one of them have unique features that have to be considered if there is to be a successful resolution. There is no "one size fits all".

  You both come on like self-righteous do-gooders who care little who gets hurt worse, just as long as you get to vent your frustration. How you personally feel --- outraged, or any other way --- is immaterial. How the victims feel is what's important. By our overruling their feelings and flying ahead in a crusading manner, we simply rape them all over again.

  Once again, and even clearer: Nobody gives a damn how you feel. We all give a damn how the victims feel. Get down out of your ivory towers. We don't need any "the operation was a success, but the patient died" attitudes mixed up in these matters.

  I'd like to help. But as long as this self-righteous attitude is demonstrated on your part, forget it. The victims are in just as much danger from you as they are from the pedophiles. It's just a different form of danger.

  I don't expect you to understand the above paragraph, so I'm posting something that should clarify it under a separate thread. I'll call it "The 'Boomer's' Crusades."

  Let me emphasize something here. There are a great many people who have learned the hard way that the government and the popular "counseling services" available and recommended to everyone these days are every bit as suspect as anyone else. The reason is obvious. They are made up of imperfect humans, just as all other organizations are made of. Anyone who looks to them as a panacea is bound to be disappointed.

  waiting --- I appreciated your post. It's very accurate.

  LoneWolf
• 
  55

  OUR LAWYER'S LETTER TO WATCHTOWER & THERE R...

  by ARoarer in

  1. social
  2. current

  when an elder called us to "invite" us to the kh to meet with them to question us regarding accusations of apostasy, while another elder sneakily sat on another line as a "second witness", we, after not being active for several years, having no contact with anyone in the congregation, we felt their phone call was harrassing.

  we called our lawyers who drew up a letter that say:.

  watchtower bibel & tract society.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LoneWolf

  Hello, ARoarer,

  More power to you.

  There is something that you may find interesting and that I would sure appreciate if you could do.

  For some time now I've been looking for a situation where a certain strategy could be applicable. This looks like it may be one. In fact you yourself bring it up:

  Yet they don't allow for anyone else to have religious freedom without religous persecution.

  In a sense, the Society has all of its eggs in one basket. Without their defense of freedom of religion, they have almost nothing. How interesting it would be if we could transform this almost impenetrable wall that they hide behind into their enemy by using it as a weapon against them. Remember how the only thing that will cut a diamond is another diamond?

  Sue them for violating your freedom of religion. Pit the freedom of religion of an individual against the freedom of religion of an organization. Put the question before the court: Does a religious organization have the right to force individuals to violate their conscience?

  There are all kinds of things that could sweeten this pot. For instance:

  1. The Nuremburg Trials. Men were convicted and executed for NOT following their consciences.

  2. Some religions have been running amok. The governments have few weapons to pull them into line. This could be developed into a tool that would help. I think that the State Department would be quite interested in how such a case would turn out.

  3. The ACLU may very well be interested. They can hardly be classified as religion's ally.

  4. It's unique approach will get the attention of a vast number of powerful people. Win and you've destroyed their defenses. They'll be as helpless as a beached whale. Lose, and you've still done considerable damage.

  This is an untried approach and therein is its advantage. It's new ground and they haven't been over it a thousand times before. As a result, they'll be more tenative.

  Perhaps most importantly, you will be one-upping them in the finesse and mind-game departments. This will scare the crap out of them. They've had it too easy for too long.

  The favor you could do me is to run this by your lawyers. I'd like to know their opinion.

  LoneWolf
• 
  74

  I'm thinking of applying for reinstatement

  by Cygnus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, here's how it is.. i just finished reading the "dead" thread.

  now, listen.

  i do not believe in life after death.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LoneWolf

  This is quite a thread!

  one ---

  The logic thing to do is not think too much about logic. By nature we are not logic in the strict sense of the word, why try to change.
  Another logic thing i should do is to stop now before i get into deep s.

  ROTFLOL!!! Enjoyed your post and the way you think. I think we’d get along quite well.

  Alan ---

  As for freedom and truth being mutually exclusive, I have no idea what you're talking about. I have a great deal of freedom these days, and I use that freedom to pursue truth wherever I find it. Life has its usual problems (middle age creeping up etc.) but life is good.

  I must completely agree with you here. I find life good and exciting in spite of being constantly hemmed in by limitations of the religion, laws that make no sense, and many other things. (I was a self-employed contractor for years too, and know exactly what Cygnus is referring to about crabby personalities, shoddy work, crummy customers, etc., etc.)

  Farkel ---

  You speak as though faith and logic are mutually exclusive, and I can’t agree. In fact the very reason that I do find life good and exciting is because I have defied the Society’s policies and applied logic to anything and everything I can, especially faith. I find continuity throughout, although I hope that you will not read into those words the thought that I know everything. I don’t. However, a dim outline of something vastly bigger than we are is beginning to come into view, and the little bits that I glimpse are utterly fascinating.

  Please, too, do not read into this, that I feel I am some privileged character that has been given some special “dispensation of holy spirit” and am trying to make some name for myself. That’s hogwash. Instead I feel like I am some wanderer that by sheer luck has found a beautiful canyon and am exploring some of its nooks and crannies. It seems that every time I wander around a corner there is something that makes me want to jump up and down and yell “Holy cow! Do you see what I see?”

  Those who think they've already determined their destinies are the most boring and arrogant people I've known.

  And that in a nutshell is the problem in nearly all religion. All knowledge gained is usually twisted into or formulated in some way to flatter our egos. If we can back ourselves out of the equation, at least to the extent that it won’t color our findings, then it’s amazing what can be found.

  Mommy Dark ---

  Good to see you again.

  Borgfree ---

  I keep hearing about these ex-witness conventions and “apostofests” and am somewhat curious about them. How many show up on average, what they consist of, etc.

  joelbear

  I do not find them intellectually corrupt. Indeed at the intellectual level they make a great deal of sense. Most of the pieces fit together logically. You are already aware of my thinking on the "justice question", which is one important piece that does not make sense. Its an important enough piece to keep me from going back. It involves both the manmade congregational judicial system and the divine justice system as explained by the Watchtower. Neither one make sense logically, nor do either have a sound scriptural basis. The society picks and chooses scriptures that describe the way they see justice as needed to be meted out both now by congregations and eventually by Jehovah. I find this to be their greatest crime. And since the story of the Bible is basically man committing a crime, paying a sentence, being bailed out and having to face trial on an individual basis, the issue of justice must be dealt with accurately or everything around it becomes moot.

  Excellent! I agree with nearly all of it. The greatest problem is that they allowed their ego to get involved.
  
  1. They got some knowledge.
  2. That meant that God blessed them.
  3. If God blessed them, then that must mean they are special.
  4. If they are special, then they are holy.
  5. If they are holy, then God’s spirit is helping and guiding them.
  6. As it makes no mistakes, then they make no mistakes.
  7. Therefore they cannot go back on what they’ve said, as then the whole house comes crashing down.
  8. And so on.

  By their ego, they made the trap, set it, and caught themselves.

  This whole situation makes me remember the scripture about how Jehovah puts hooks in Satan’s jaws and drags him forward to his destruction. Every time some small bit of progress in knowledge is made, Satan works overtime to corrupt it and forbid further thinking, which in turn triggers intellectual rebellion and further thought.

  May Sarton once wrote to the effect that intellectual growth is necessary to humans for us to enjoy life, but that it is always painful. There’s a great deal of truth to that.

  Cygnus ---

  Note my comments to joelbear above.

  I firmly believe from all I’ve seen and studied that Jehovah wants us to inquire and study and question and progress, and that this is on an individual basis, not something that is handed down from on high.

  However, in these last 5 years since I quit the JWs, I have found NOTHING that is any better than what they have to offer. I have spent quite a lot of my time trying to convince myself that there are alternate possibilities that perhaps my passing from this plane of existence might result in something palatable that I can absorb as satisfactory, but it isn't working.

  If my thoughts above are correct, then the reason that it isn’t working is that the answers that you are looking for are not found in the philosophies that exist today. We have vast quantities of knowledge (raw material) that can now be cranked into the things that we were taught, and that would change these dramatically. To do so, though, would take humility and an open mindedness to other’s views that many have a hard time maintaining.

  There are many I have seen express that there is a great peace that descends upon one when it is finally accepted that there is no paradise, etc. However, I see no difference between this sort of peace and the peace that a terminal cancer patient experiences at the very end of life after the stages of denial, anger, etc., are finally exhausted. I suppose that they would say that I am in the denial stage, but naturally, I deny that.

  Seriously, though, I still see far too much evidence that it is true to give up on it. Until all these other possibilities are exhausted, I see no reason to reject it and would be intellectually dishonest in doing so.

  Please listen to Siddhashunyata. Never compromise your conscience in order to find peace. You will then lose what little peace you have, along with the respect that even your enemies have for you (but won’t admit it). You will then have nothing but contempt from all who know of it. You will have destroyed yourself from within.

  Again, this is an impressive thread.

  LoneWolf
• 
  18

  Dissension

  by teejay in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  beginning over a hundred years ago with the sincerely misguided (albeit egotistical) pastor russell on down to todays corporate incarnation of jehovahs mouthpiece otherwise known as the governing body of jehovah's witnesses, all of the leaderships crimes can be traced to a single kernel of untruth that lies at the very heart of this ungodly organization.

  a typical expression of this single but immense seed of falsehood is clearly seen in the following quote, typical of thousands made in the watchtower over the years:... if we fall into the habit of ... ignoring counsel from jehovah through .

  his faithful slave class, it will not be long before our hearts become callous, .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LoneWolf

  Hi, teejay,

  For those who missed it, I wrote some on this subject back in December. It includes a quote by H. G. Wells that is especially apropos. It's in the piece "The Natural Life Cycle of a Religion."

  If you're interested in reviewing it, here's the address.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=16621&site=3

  LoneWolf
• 
  17

  ROBERT BLAKE ARRESTED!

  by Dutchie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm watching cnn and the actor robert blake, best known for his role in the tv series baretta, has just been arrested for the murder of his wife.

  they are charging him with the deliberate first degree murder of his wife.

  another oj?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LoneWolf

  Hmmmm. I can't say that I approve of murder, but sometimes . . .

  I read an article about his wife. If even half of what her own family says is true about her, then the world isn't really hurt by her loss.

  Yes, yes, I know. Coldhearted, etc. LOL.

  LoneWolf
• 
  39

  Was Eve really Adam's first woman?

  by Shimmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i checked out this really cool book from the library called don't know much about the bible.

  it talks about a hebrew legend recorded in the medieval alphabet of ben sira regarding a lilith who was adam's first wife, who preceded eve.

  in this version, lilith is created from the earth, as adam was.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LoneWolf

  seven006 --- LOL. Slow down, my friend. I can see how you could take that personally, but that wasn't how I meant it. I was warning you to beware of the simplistic thinking that characterizes that school of thought.

  Just as we must beware of some here who would use any tactic to discredit the Society, regardless of whether they are true, fair, or anything else, and thereby setting back the efforts of the rest of us, so there are those equally eager to discredit the Bible and will take shortcuts.

  That, to me, is folly. We want truth, whatever and where ever it may be. That speaks of a thoroughness and great care in examining these matters. To jump to an unwarrented conclusion does no one any favors.

  Thank you for enlarging on what you were referring to originally. That helps me understand what you were referring to. I'd be interested in a few examples and why you feel that the Bible writer copied them, but we've hijacked this thread enough. Perhaps somewhere else?

  You too, take care.

  LoneWolf
• 
  39

  Was Eve really Adam's first woman?

  by Shimmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i checked out this really cool book from the library called don't know much about the bible.

  it talks about a hebrew legend recorded in the medieval alphabet of ben sira regarding a lilith who was adam's first wife, who preceded eve.

  in this version, lilith is created from the earth, as adam was.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LoneWolf

  seven006 ---

  It is all myth. Merchants and traders from both Europe and Asia would meet to exchange goods in Persia. There they would trade stories and myths as well as goods. That is how the stories of the bible are the same ones which talked about Buddha and Krishna in both Hindu and Buddhist religious scrolls hundreds of years before the bible was written.

  Nonsense. And I'm referring primarily to the popular opinion that just because similar events are recorded in different places that one account came from another. That's simplistic thinking.

  To illustrate, flood accounts of great similarity are recorded in both the Bible and the Chaldean legends. The Chaldean legends are older, so many jump to the knee-jerk assumption that the Biblical one is taken from the Chaldean one. One merely needs to read them a little closer to see that there is one vast difference: they are written from two opposing viewpoints.

  One could say that a woman who has been raped and her rapist will have many similarities in their stories of the event. That does not mean that she is merely repeating what he told her.

  LoneWolf
• 
  9

  judged for not ostrisizing?

  by blindfool in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, i'm getting a little lazy here.

  i glanced at a couple of jw books on the issue, but i know you guys can answer, so i'm going straight to the experts.. what happens if a good witness refuses to ostracize a df'd member.

  i know an elder might approach and question their actions, but would a judicial committee ever be formed to stop a person from associating with a df'd witness?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  LoneWolf

  blindfool --- HoChiMin is correct as to it depending on the mood of the body of elders and the makeup of the congregation. You may be able to get away with it in some, but in others anything can happen.

  You may be interested in this account in which a man's elderly mother was DFed for talking with him:

  http://www.xjw.com/rawe-df.html

  LoneWolf