kramer

Joined 14 years ago

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Posts by kramer

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  12

  Alcoholic

  by openheart in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  9 years ago

  hi i was raised in the truth in the uk since my birth in 1970 i went wayward as my family left in 1981 when i was 11 never took a career just wasted my life away now i'm 46 i rejoined when i was 22 rose to be a auxiliary pioneer and ms then it all went wrong my wife diagnosed bipolar disorder i got diagnosed depression a mega implosion occurred now i'm lost what now ?.

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  9 years ago
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  kramer 9 years ago

  Hi drop me a line if you want through PM, I have a bit of experience here, and have got through (or more accurately learned to live with) similar problems ... In short, professional help is a must , and mutual help groups if possible - easier of course if you are in a city. I know the feeling of being lost and without hope with these things, you can work through it!

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  44

  What crime should elders report?

  by kramer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  9 years ago

  so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

  how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

  assault on a congregant?.

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  7 years ago
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  kramer 9 years ago

  @anders , the question isn't a straw man, primarily as I am not arguing a position here just asking a question

  people are saying that elders should report allegation of crime to police, why should that apply to any crime? And maybe also as a good upstanding citizen we should report ALL crime, but I know I wouldn't report an alleged assault ,.. But definetly report burglary or ongoing domestic abuse

  i guess the difference is around reporting all alleged offences v all confessed crime

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  44

  What crime should elders report?

  by kramer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  9 years ago

  so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

  how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

  assault on a congregant?.

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  7 years ago
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  kramer 9 years ago

  @loveunihateexams , do you as a good upstanding citizen report jaywalking crimes to the police?

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  44

  What crime should elders report?

  by kramer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  9 years ago

  so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

  how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

  assault on a congregant?.

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  7 years ago
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  kramer 9 years ago

  @rebelfighter - yes I agree our brothers should go through that sort of process, compulsory for appointed people around designing person protection procedures, and for all charity volunteers there should be a day of introduction, repeated annually about this

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  44

  What crime should elders report?

  by kramer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  9 years ago

  so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

  how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

  assault on a congregant?.

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  2. 
  3. 

  7 years ago
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  kramer 9 years ago

  @landers, maybe you are replying from a Scandinavian perspective (from your name)..in the UK or US that obligation isn't there outside of the public sector

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  44

  What crime should elders report?

  by kramer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  9 years ago

  so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

  how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

  assault on a congregant?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  7 years ago
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  kramer 9 years ago

  @loveunihateexams so, the elders should report speeding offences? Or jay walking, or assault on a congregant?

  Link
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  44

  What crime should elders report?

  by kramer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  9 years ago

  so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

  how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

  assault on a congregant?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  7 years ago
• 

  kramer 9 years ago

  @anders Andersen, what law are you referring to in, which country, I don't know of a law (in the UK) that requires individuals or organisations to report accusations of crime

  so the elders should report every accusation (not proven claim) of petty theft, or assault?

  Link
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  44

  What crime should elders report?

  by kramer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  9 years ago

  so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

  how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

  assault on a congregant?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  7 years ago
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  kramer 9 years ago

  @jwleaks - yes, I guess for insurance purposes, it's necessary (unless they underwrite the risk themselves, not sure if they do)

  the Borg get criticised for not reporting - but I haven't seen anyone offer a comprehensive framework for how it should be (they of course should have one and make it publicly available

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  44

  What crime should elders report?

  by kramer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  9 years ago

  so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

  how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

  assault on a congregant?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  7 years ago
• 

  kramer 9 years ago

  How about an example where a brother is dealt with judicially on drink driving, where they were not caught by the police, should the elders report that? Does it make a difference if the car was empty, or full of minors?

  Link
• 
  44

  What crime should elders report?

  by kramer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  9 years ago

  so, i am trying to get my head around what the right position of elders should be when they come across crime is.. i think i get the issuess around clergy confidentiality - and how that might potentially be breached when they talk about it to other elders, let alone the police.. but if people are saying that elders - or clergy of another faith should report crime to the police when it is confessed to the, then where are the boundaries.. so if someone says they should report to police on a confessed example of child abuse, that's one thing.. how about reporting to police consensual sex between a 19year old and 15 year old - which is statutory rape in the uk.

  how about criminal fraud if they come across it.

  assault on a congregant?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 

  7 years ago
• 

  kramer 9 years ago

  I imagine that the question is how you deal with an impact on a minor - but what about the rape of an adult that the victim doesn't want to report, should the elders do that?

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