MacHislopp

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Posts by MacHislopp

• 
  22

  1919.WTBS Inc.'s holy year!

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  by the wtbs inc. as years with a special and/or

  (part one )

  "jehovah's witnesss in the divine purpose " published by the wtbs inc. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello again,

  To Ozziepost, ISP, RevMalk, Gpher,

  Thanks for your appreciative comments.

  (Ozziepostmany quotes , as usual in WTBS Inc.'

  world, state ... simply the opposite of the previous one ).

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
• 
  7

  " Only few words, but many lies" pa...

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  make their own decision based on an informed conscience.

  a personal decision

  ) civilian servitude as a substitute for military service would be just as objectionable to the christian.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello Greven and jonny chip,

  thanks for the appreciative comments.

  When I do have time ...I always prepare

  on research, hoping to be useful to some.

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
• 
  5

  Interesting link from Canada (not recent)

  by RAYZORBLADE in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this may have been shared before, but i was re-reading it.

  it was interesting to read it.

  makes you wonder sometimes, doesn't it?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello Rayzorblade,

  thanks for the link. Imho, I believe that the best piece of evidence

  is Salter letter to "the president "of the WTBS Inc. Many interesting,

  factual and truthful statements.

  Thanks, greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
• 
  22

  1919.WTBS Inc.'s holy year!

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  by the wtbs inc. as years with a special and/or

  (part one )

  "jehovah's witnesss in the divine purpose " published by the wtbs inc. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello again,

  these few line to add some comments:

  Simwitness : Yes I do know about those details, I can add them up,

  since t hey are written in the book JWs in the Divine purpose

  c hapter 14, page 91. It is written about the " compromise"

  about cutting out of p ages 247-253 of

  The Finished Mistery book.

  Room215, Nathan Natas, johnny chip and Simwitness

  Thanks for the appreciationusing their own words!

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
• 
  22

  1919.WTBS Inc.'s holy year!

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  by the wtbs inc. as years with a special and/or

  (part one )

  "jehovah's witnesss in the divine purpose " published by the wtbs inc. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello again,

  Now here is.. PART TWO :

  ***Expecting the return of " ancient worthies" and preparing a place for

  them! By the way in 1919, it was not yet " Beth-Sarim" but simply the

  Bethel Home " in Brooklyn New York. As a matter of fact this was written

  in " The Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence " December 15 th ,

  1919 n 24 Vol. XL, page 374 :

  "The Bethel Home is a spot dear to all the saints on earth. The name Bethel

  means the house of God. It was founded by that wise and faithful messenger

  of Laodicea, our dear Brother Russell, as the home from which the message of truth was to be sent forth. In the autumn of 1918 it was dismantled and stood vacant for some time. Many a heart turned longingly toward Bethel, praying that if it might be the Lord's will it would be restored , so that his people in this land

  might have one place to which they could look as a temporary resting place in the

  earth. The Lord opened the way to restore it and after a few months' strenous

  effort it is with pleasure that we are able to announce that the Bethel has been

  refurnished and the offices moved into it. The decoration throughout have been

  changed, symbolizing the incoming age. While most of the furniture is plain, yet comfortable, the drawing-room and the parlors have been neatly and comfortably

  furnished. Some might find occasion to criticize the expenditure of money in

  furnishing these, but it has been thought not improbable that the Lord would be pleased to preserve this place and in due time some of the ancient worthies would find here an abiding spot."

  * Concerning the particular teaching since the year 1918, also the book:

  " Proclaimers " furnishes evidences:

  *** jv 632 28 Testing and Sifting From Within ***

  In the lecture Millions Now Living Will Never Die, delivered by J. F. Rutherford on March 21, 1920, at the Hippodrome in New York City, attention was directed to the year 1925.

  On what basis was it thought to be significant? In a booklet published in that same year, 1920, it was pointed out that if 70fullJubilees were calculated fromwhatwasunderstoodtobethedatewhenIsraelenteredthePromisedLand (instead of starting after the last typical Jubilee beforetheBabylonianexile and then counting to the beginning of the Jubilee year at the end of the 50th cycle), this could point to the year 1925.

  On the basis of what was said there, many hoped that perhaps the remaining ones of the little flock would receive their heavenly reward by 1925.

  This year also was associated with expectations for resurrection of faithful pre-Christian servants of God with a view to their serving on earth as princely representatives of the heavenly Kingdom.

  If that really occurred, it would mean that mankind had entered an era in which death would cease to be master, and millions then living could have the hope of never dying off the earth. What a happy prospect! Though mistaken, they eagerly shared it with others.

  ***Used Masonic symbols like cross and crown :

  *** jv 200 14 "They Are No Part of the World" ***

  "For years, Bible Students wore a cross and crown as a

  badge of identification, and this symbol was on the front

  cover of the Watch Tower from 1891 to 1931.

  But in 1928 it was emphasized that not a decorative symbol but ones

  activity as a witness showed he was a Christian.

  See also The Watchtower January 1 st , 2000 page 9 15:

  For example , in the 1920s many Bible Students wore a pin

  featuring a cross-and-crown emblem, and they celebrated

  Christmas and other pagan holidays.

  ***Used of "The Ancient Egyptian Winged Sun Disk Symbol" on

  the book "Finished mistery " published from the year 1917;

  (see front cover of the book)

  also see an enlarged picture of "The Ancient Egyptian Winged Sun Disk Symbol" from this link: http://wingedsundisksymbol.homestead.com/

  *** Taught and believed that C.T. Russell was

  the "faithful and discreet slave" :

  "Jehovah's Witnesss in the Divine purpose "

  published by the WTBS Inc. , in 1959 , page 95

  stated : Some insisted on living on the past, in

  the time of Pastor Russell, when the brothers in general

  had viewed him as the sole channel of Scriptural

  enlightenment. It was the published and accepted

  thought down till 1927 that he was that servant

  of Matthew 24 :45. (footnote : w. 1927, pp.55,56)

  and :

  *** jv 626 28 Testing and Sifting From Within ***

  Clearing Up the Identity of the Faithful and Wise Servant

  Many who were sifted out at that time clung to the view that a single individual, Charles Taze Russell, was the faithful and wise servant foretold by Jesus at Matthew 24:45-47 (KJ), which servant would distribute spiritual food to the household of faith . Particularly following his death, The Watch Tower itself set forth this view for a number of years. In view of the prominent role that Brother Russell had played, it appeared to the Bible Students of that time that this was the case.

  He did not personally promote the idea, but he did acknowledge the apparent reasonableness of the arguments of those who favored it. He also emphasized, however, that whoever the Lord might use in such a role must be humble as well as zealous to bring glory to the Master, and that if the one chosen by the Lord failed, he would be replaced by another.

  In 1881, Brother Russell himself had expressed the view that that servant was made up of the entire body of faithful spirit-anointed Christians. He saw it as being a collective servant, a class of persons who were united in doing Gods will. (Compare Isaiah 43:10.) This understanding was reaffirmed by the Bible Students in 1927.

  Jehovahs Witnesses today recognize the Watchtower magazine and kindred publications to be the ones used by the faithful and discreet slave to dispense spiritual food. They do not claim that this slave class is infallible, but they do view it as the one channel that the Lord is using during the last days of this system of things.

  *** Taught and believed that C.T.Russell ,who died in 1916, was granted

  the privilege.to exercise some strong influence on the Harvest work.:

  " The Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence " November 1 st ,

  1917 page 325 :

  "Hence our dear Pastor, now in glory, is without doubt, manifesting a keen interest in the Harvest work, and is permitted by the Lord to exercise some strong influence thereupon. (Revelation 14:17) It is not unreasonable to conclude that he has been privileged to do, in connection with the Harvest work, things which he could not do while with us. Although we recognize that the Lord is the great Master and Director of the Harvest, yet we recognize that He would privilege the saints beyond the veil to have a part in the work on this side; and thus all the saints, both in Heaven and upon earth, are now given the honor of concluding the work on this side, preparatory to the full establishment of the Kingdom of Glory."

  Btw this kind of teaching was confirmed, without specific names, and

  applied to the all the resurrected anointed, in the year 1988, with the

  publication by the WTBS Inc. of the book:

  "Revelation It's Grand Climax At Hand! " page 125

  "And in response one of the elders said to me: 'These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?' So right away I said to him: 'My lord, you are the one that knows.'" (Revelation 7:13, 14a) Yes, that elder could locate the answer and give it to John. This suggests that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today."

  In conclusion, I'm sure that there are ample evidences that BEFORE that special year 1919, and even years AFTER, the " early Bible Students" were quite far and away from the teaching of the Word of Godand some of the practices and doctrines remained for many, many years after , in spite of the fact that , according to the WTBS Inc., Jehovah God :

  1)

  "removed all stumbling blocks and led them to

  freedom so that they could render pure worship

  to him. "

  2)

  "liberated them and restored them to their spiritual

  estate, "their land". There they received a double

  portion of blessings."

  3)

  "them with an abundant supply of spiritual waters,"

  and also

  4)

  They needed to see God's purpose and teaching clearly.

  False beliefs are stumbling stones on the pathway to life,

  but Jehovah's Word is " like a a forge hammer that smashes the crag."

  My last thought in this matter that the vast majority of the JW's don't have the time (understandable) nor the disposition nor the keen desire (debatable) , to examine what is continually given to them and always labelled as as coming , from the representatives of Jehovah God's visible organization on earth , under the care and the oversight of

  God's beloved son , Jesus Christ !!!

  Of course until there is life there is hope!

  I'm sure that some will find all this material interesting.

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  " Sustineas tibi Habitu esse similes, qui sint virtute impares".

  (Fedro ,IV)
• 
  22

  1919.WTBS Inc.'s holy year!

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  by the wtbs inc. as years with a special and/or

  (part one )

  "jehovah's witnesss in the divine purpose " published by the wtbs inc. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello everyone,

  Most of us are quite familiar with thousands of quotes

  concerning various and different years, highlighted

  by the WTBS Inc. as years with a special and/or

  prophetic meaning. The latest one is the year 1919

  and the WTBS Inc. has made full use of it in two of

  the most recent publications.

  (PART ONE )

  This time as the title states, I'll show some quotes

  from the book:

  " Isaiah's Prophecy - Lightfor all Mankind " Vol. II

  published by the WTBS of New York, Inc.

  International Bible Students Association Brooklyn,

  New York, U.S.A. in the year 2001, and used in all

  congregational's book studies. The schedule began on

  September 16 th 2002, and will end on October 13 th , 2003.

  In this book there are many reference made about the year " 1919 ".

  For the sake of clarity I've chosen some - out of a total 56 -

  and I'll prove with the WTBS Inc., that after all , that year

  " 1919 " was not so special and blessed by God ,as they

  would like all the JWs - esp. the " R& F " to believe.

  I've chosen, as proofs, only some of the most important and

  clear evidences - where possible from some of the

  most recent publications - otherwise this research , would

  have taken too much space.

  Let's begin with the quotes from the Isaiah's book:

  ****page 272, 21 :

  " Jehovah showed concern for the welfare of the anointed remnant in 1919. because of their contrite humble spirit, the great God, Jehovah, kindly noticed their affliction and delivered them from Babylonish captivity. He removed all stumbling blocks and led them to freedom so that they could render pure worship to him."

  ***page 306, 5 :

  " In 1919, however, Jehovah shed forth his light upon them. In response , they stood up and reflected God's light, fearlessly proclaiming the good news of God's Kingdom.-Matthew 5:14-16;24:14 "

  page 326-327, 13 :

  " The final one of these stately " trees" have flourished in the years since 1919, when Jehovah revived the remaining one of the Israel of God from their

  temporary state of inactivity. By supplying them with an abundant supply of spiritual waters, Jehovah has produced a virtual forest of righteous, fruit -bearing trees. - Isaiah 27:6 "

  page 330, 21, :

  " Finally, in the spring of 1919, they were freed, and later all charges against them

  were dropped. Thus the scheme to stop the preaching work backfired. Instead of allowing his worshipers to suffer lasting shame, Jehovah liberated them and restored them to their spiritual estate, "their land". There they received a double portion of blessings. Having Jehovah's blessing more than made up for all that they had suffered. Truly they had reasons to cry out joyfully!"

  page 340, 10 :

  " Starting in 1919 a similar change was experienced by the Israel of God.

  during the first world war, anointed Christians appeared to be disowned by God. But in 1919 their favored status was restored, and their way of worship, purified. This affected their teachings, their organization, and their activity. The Israel of God came into its "land," its spiritual estate, or realm of activity.- Isaiah 66:7,8,20-22 "

  page 345-346 20:

  "Since 1919, anointed Christians have been set apart for divine service and are traveling "the Way of Holiness." (Isaiah 35:8) They were the first to walk on the spiritual highway out of Babylon the Great. (Isaiah 40:3; 48:20) God gave them the privilege of taking the lead in declaring his mighty works and in showing others the way onto the highway. Ridding it of stones - clearing away stumbling blocks - was mainly for their own benefit. (Isaiah 57:14) They needed to see God's purpose and teaching clearly. False beliefs are stumbling stones on the pathway to life, but Jehovah's Word is " like a a forge hammer that smashes the crag." With it, anointed Christians shattered stumbling stones that could trip those who wanted to serve Jehovah.- Jeremiah 23:29 "

  page 346, 21 :

  " In 1919 when the anointed remnant were delivered from bondage to false

  religion, they did not wander aimlesly."

  page 348, 24:

  " In 1918, three and a half years after his enthronement, he cleansed Jehovah's spiritual temple, as represented on earth by the congregation of anointed Christians. (Malachi 3:1-5) His being raised as a signal marked the beginning of the great ingathering of people from all over the earth, in support of the Messianic Kingdom. Following the ancient pattern, " salvation " came to the Israel of God when they were liberated from Babylon the Great in 1919. "

  - Personally, the following THREE quotes are brilliant, just pure gems.!!! Hold on, first turn to page 397, 14:

  " In the modern-day fulfillment of these prophecies , there was an inmportant spiritual development in 1918 in connection with Jehovah's worship. Jehovah and Jesus evidently made an inspection of all those claiming to represent pure worship. That inspection led to the final casting off of corrupt Christendom. For Christ's anointed followers, the inspection meant a brief period of refinement followed by a swift spiritual restoration in 1919.- 1 Peter 4:17 "

  Now for the final fireworks , lets turn to page 400 - 15 more pages and then it will be the end of the 2 nd volume - and take 19 :

  " Spiritual Israel too was blessed with abundant nourishment after the restoration in 1919. Since then the flow of spiritual food dispensed through "the faithful and discreet slave " has been steady. (Matthew 24:45-47) This has indeed been a time of consolation and joy for the anointed remnant. But there have been further blessings."

  Finally let's advance to page 415, to a very revealing and loaded paragraph 15,

  one last effort:

  " The anointed ones who were gathered in the early years did not expect Jehovah to accept them as they were before coming to a knowledge of Bible truth. They took steps to cleanse themselves of spiritual and moral defilements so that they could be presented as a " gift in a clean vessel," or as stated by the apostle Paul, " a chaste virgin to the Christ." (2 Corinthians 11:2) In addition to rejecting doctrinal error , the anointed ones had to learn how to remain strictly neutral in the political affairs of this world. In 1931, when his servants had been cleansed to an appropriate degree , Jehovah graciously granted them the privilege of bearing his name as Jehovah's Witnesses . (Isaiah 43:10-12)."

  Please keep in mind that this material has been published in the year 2001, which means more that 82 years after the events of 1919 "!

  Now let's go to the WTBS Inc. quotes that surely will give a completely different, if not opposite view concerning the " spiritual " situation of the "e a r l y Bible Sttudents " before, during and after the year 1919.

  Many of such informations can be read in a well known book:

  "Jehovah's Witnesss in the Divine purpose " published by the WTBS Inc.

  in the year 1959 .

  There on page 91 it is written the situation and even

  the "uncleanliness " of " the early Bible students"

  ***Believed that there were certain saving qualities in their self-merit;

  "Jehovah's Witnesss in the Divine purpose "

  published by the WTBS Inc. , in 1959 , page 91

  ***Were guilty of creature worship;

  "Jehovah's Witnesss in the Divine purpose "

  published by the WTBS Inc. , in 1959 , page 91

  ***They had a democratic form of 'election 'for

  congregational oversight (elders and deacons);

  "Jehovah's Witnesss in the Divine purpose "

  published by the WTBS Inc. , in 1959 , page 91

  ***Had an incorrect view of the " higher powers "

  mentioned in Romans 13:1;

  "Jehovah's Witnesss in the Divine purpose "

  published by the WTBS Inc. , in 1959 , page 91

  Furthermore the " early Bible Students "

  ***Celebrated " pagan " holydays such as Christmas ;

  " Proclaimers' book, published in 1993:

  *** jv 198-9 14 "They Are No Part of the World" *** WhentheWorldHadItsHolidays

  When Jehovahs Witnesses cast aside religious teachings that had pagan roots, they also quit sharing in many customs that were similarly tainted. But for a time, certain holidays were not given the careful scrutiny that they needed. One of these was Christmas.

  This holiday was celebrated yearly even by members of the Watch Tower Societys headquarters staff at the Bethel Home in Brooklyn, New York. For many years they had been aware that December 25 was not the correct date, but they reasoned that the date had long been popularly associated with the birth of the Savior and that doing good for others was proper on any day. However, after further investigation of the subject, the members of the Societys headquarters staff, as well as the staffs at the Societys branch offices in England and in Switzerland, decided to stop sharing in Christmas festivities, so no Christmas celebration was held there after 1926.

  ***Celebrated birthdays :

  *** jv 200 14 "They Are No Part of the World" ***

  In their Daily Manna book, Bible Students kept a list of birthdays. But after they quit celebrating Christmas and when they realized that birthday celebrations were giving undue honor to creatures (one reason that early Christians never celebrated birthdays), the Bible Students quit this practice too."

  ***Taught , for decades that the Great Pyramid

  was a strong and corroborative witness to Gods plan ;

  From the "Proclaimers" A book, published by the WTBS Inc., in 1993 -

  *** jv 200 14 "They Are No Part of the World" *** (publ. 1993)

  For some 35 years, Pastor Russell thought that the Great Pyramid of Gizeh was Gods stone witness, corroborating Biblical time periods. (Isa. 19:19)

  But Jehovahs Witnesses have abandoned the idea that an Egyptian pyramid has

  anything to do with true worship.

  (See Watchtower issues of November 15 and December 1, 1928)

  Yet the same book " Proclaimers " , wrote , only 421 pages after:

  *** jv 621 28 Testing and Sifting From Within ***

  It certainly could not be expected that God would use C. T. Russell if he did not loyally adhere to Gods Word. (Jer. 23:28; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17)

  And :

  "As Jehovahs Witnesses today review the work that he did, the things he taught, his reason for teaching them, and the outcome, they have no doubt that Charles Taze Russell was, indeed, used by God in a special way and at a significant time."

  But of course, another 7 years passed and the WTBS Inc. gave an entirely

  different picture , about the matter , in the pages of The Watchtower , 1st January 2000, pages 9-10 16-17 :

  Some Bible Students became engrossed with measuring different

  features of the pyramid to determine such matters as the day they would be going to heaven ! This so-called Bible in Stone was held in esteem for some decades , until the Watchtower issues of November 15th and December 1st, 1928, made clear that Jehovah needed no stone monument built by pagan pharaohs and containing demonic signs of astrology to confirm the witness given in the Bible.

  ***Taught false dates as if truly coming from God :

  i.e. 1874, 1878, 1881

  *** jv 632 28 Testing and Sifting From Within ***

  Based on the premise that events of the first century might find parallels in related events later, they also concluded that if Jesus baptism and anointing in the autumn of 29 C.E. paralleled the beginning of an invisible presence in 1874, then his riding into Jerusalem as King in the spring of 33 C.E. would point to the spring of 1878 as the time when he would assume his power as heavenly King. They also thought they would be given their heavenly reward at that time. When that did not occur, they concluded that since Jesus anointed followers were to share with him in the Kingdom, the resurrection to spirit life of those already sleeping in death began then. It was also reasoned that the end of Gods special favor to natural Israel down to 36 C.E. might point to 1881 as the time when the special opportunity to become part of spiritual Israel would close .

  Started teaching from the year 1918 :

  "In this year on February 24, the discourse :

  "The World Has Ended -- Millions Now Living Will Never Die"

  is first delivered in Los Angeles, CA. ,by brother Rutherford.

  This is followed by another one , in March 31, in Boston ,MA.-"

  "Jehovah's Witnesss in the Divine purpose "

  published by the WTBS Inc. , in 1959 , pages 76, 77, 93, 98, 104, 140

  Many things were written in the 128- pages book :

  Millions Now Living Will Never Die " like the expectations

  abouth the year 1925 :

  From the Yearbook 1980 , page 62 :

  The book Millionshad been widely used in the French field since 1921 and on the basis of its contents, much was expectedof 1925. But when 1925 came and went without the anticipated happening coming to pass, those on the outside who had read the book made fun of the brothers. Worse still, the faith of some of the brothers themselves was shaken.

  Some expected to go to heaven that year."

  Concerning the publicity given , the book :

  "Jehovah's Witnesss in the Divine purpose "

  published by the WTBS Inc. , in 1959 , page 140

  stated :

  ..the campaign Millions Now Living Will Never Die

  from 1918 to 1921 was a step in the direction of reaching this

  class destined one day to populate the earth.

  As a further proof, read what was written , even in the year 1919,

  there is a good one in:

  " The Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence "

  December 15 th , 1919 n 24 Vol. XL, page 373:

  "The public seems eager to know something about the times in which

  we are living and the meaning of all these wonderful phenomena. It a

  great comfort to the hearts of many people to hear the message ,

  " Millions Now Living Will Never Die," which the Lord's people can

  confidently " announce , knowing that many of the generation now

  upon the earth shall not pass away bu live on until the Lord's Kingdom is fully established . They have in mind the words of the Master that ' were not the days of tribulation shortened there would be no flesh saved , but that for the elect's sake much flesh will be saved'; and that thus these millions will be brought through the time of trouble and have the opportunity of accepting the blessing of life under the terms of the New Covenant."
• 
  10

  Jehovah's Witnesses Deny They Are A Cult

  by Kenneson in

  1. social
  2. current

  in today's globe and mail, an article entitled "where cultists play" addresses the issue of cults, principally in quebec.

  it takes a good look at the raelians and other cults of french origin.. speaking of france, it says that "the government has drawn up a list of 172 groups it considers to be cults; those deemed the most 'dangerous' are subject to special scrutiny.

  the list, which attracted criticism from civil libertarians, includes jehovah's witnesses and seventh -day adventists.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello Kenneson,

  thanks for the news. In last decade the WTBS Inc. has

  great difficulty in France, Belgium, Sveden etc.

  It will continue and Farkel gave the reason:

  "No Cult has ever admitted they were a Cult.

  That's why they're Cults!"

  Great Farkel!

  Greetings , J.C.MacHislopp
• 
  7

  " Only few words, but many lies" pa...

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  make their own decision based on an informed conscience.

  a personal decision

  ) civilian servitude as a substitute for military service would be just as objectionable to the christian.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello No Apologies,

  thanks for appreciative comment.

  I do agree with you:

  "Do you know of any witness couple whose

  conscience still will not permit them to celebrate

  their anniversary? " I'm sure that if they exist,

  they would be in the order of 0,00000001 % !!!

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
• 
  23

  Elder Lou Anguiano Ordered to Stand Trial

  by Nathan Natas in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/news/stories/20030208/localnews/944157.html .

  saturday, february 8, 2003 .

  trial ordered for jehovah's elder.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello Nathan Natas,

  thanks for the information. As it has been commented...

  "he was an elder when all started..." Again another of

  those " appointed", " blessed" and "helped by God's

  spirit", thanks to the mighty WTBS Inc. !! I do

  hope that he gets what he deserves - the sick and

  pervert 'elder or former elder.

  My thoughts are with the victim and the family,

  who surely were asked , as usual, to hide the matter.

  Greetings, J.C;MacHislopp
• 
  7

  " Only few words, but many lies" pa...

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  make their own decision based on an informed conscience.

  a personal decision

  ) civilian servitude as a substitute for military service would be just as objectionable to the christian.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MacHislopp

  Hello everyone,

  This time I'll concentrate in giving a factual, documented proof,

  concerning the great issue of :

  " civilian service that is a part of national service

  under a civilian administration "

  Let's start with the " new light/ viewpoint/ doctrine/ opinion"

  which was published by the WTBS in the year 1996:

  *** w96 5/1 20 Paying Back Caesar's Things to Caesar ***

  19 What, though, if the State requires a Christian for a period of time to perform civilian service that is a part of national service under a civilian administration? Here again, Christians must make their own decision based on an informed conscience. We shall all stand before the judgment seat of God. (Romans 14:10) Christians faced with a requirement of Caesar should prayerfully study the matter and meditate on it. It may also be wise to talk the matter over with mature Christians in the congregation. After this a personal decision must be made.Proverbs 2:1-5; Philippians 4:5.

  Let's read two paragraphs further down;

  " 21 What if the Christians honest answers to such questions lead him to conclude that the national civilian service is a good work that he can perform in obedience to the authorities? That is his decision before Jehovah. Appointed elders and others should fully respect the conscience of the brother and continue to regard him as a Christian in good standing. If, however, a Christian feels that he cannot perform this civilian service, his position should also be respected. He too remains in good standing and should receive loving support.1 Corinthians 10:29; 2 Corinthians 1:24; 1 Peter 3:16. "

  Great, the WTBS Inc. waited until the year 1996, before, writing to the R&F, and above all the young brothers, coming to the conclusion, at the end of the with article , that to accept or refuse : " civilian service that is a part of national service under a civilian administration "

  was , after all a matter of:

  1*** " own decision based on an informed conscience ";

  2*** " a personal decision..";

  3*** " is his decision before Jehovah.."

  Now, the WTBS Inc. again, thought that most of the R&F had short

  memory, and/or read very little and/or made no researches at all, and

  all this without forgetting the impact made by the above mentioned article

  on the thousands of JWs and ex-JWs touched personally by theconclu-

  sions printed .

  So as usual , we take the time machine and arrive in the year 1974 when

  an article on the Awake! stated this:

  *** g74 12/8 22 The Netherlands Frees Imprisoned Witnesses

  *** But Jehovahs witnesses in the Netherlands have refused, not only military service, but also any noncombatant work offered as a substitute.

  The Scriptural reason for their stand will be considered later in this article."

  *** g74 12/8 23

  The Netherlands Frees Imprisoned Witnesses ***

  Authorities Begin to Listen

  On March 26, 1971, three representatives of Jehovahs witnesses met with a forum representing the ministries of Defense and Justice. The discussion lasted two and a half hours.

  One of the first points of discussion presented by the forum was this: That you wish no part in performing military service is clear and needs no further explanation. But what really is your objection to civil, alternative service?

  The Witnesses explained that it is not that they are opposed to civil service as such, but, rather, it is a matter of strict neutrality. Therefore, any work that is merely a substitute for military service would be unacceptable to Jehovahs witnesses.

  Other questions narrowed the issue down still further. When a person objects to military service, the governments agents declared, he passes from military jurisdiction on to civil jurisdiction and from that moment has nothing at all to do with the military. Why, then, is the accepting of such civil service still so objectionable?

  Willingly accepting such work is objectionable to the Christian because of what Gods law says about the matter: You were bought with a price; stop becoming slaves of men. (1 Cor. 7:23 ) Civilian servitude as a substitute for military service would be just as objectionable to the Christian. In effect, he would thereby become a part of the world instead of keeping separate as Jesus commanded.John 15:19; 17:14-16.

  Do you notice that contrary to the statement made on *** w96 5/1 20 Paying Back Caesar's Things to Caesar *** , it was not an individual witness who face

  the representatives of Dutch " ministries of Defense and Justice", but some

  " three representatives of Jehovahs witnesses "!

  Now if the issue was really a matter of:

  1*** " own decision based on an informed conscience ";

  2*** " a personal decision..";

  3*** " is his decision before Jehovah.."

  why somebody else should speak, in an issue which involves a

  "personal decision "? Then we should not forget what those

  " three representatives of Jehovahs witnesses " stated:

  ***" any work that is merely a substitute for military service would be unacceptable to Jehovahs witnesses."

  And also, something else which I believe is of the greatest importance:

  "Civilian servitude as a substitute for military service would be just as objectionable to the Christian. In effect, he would thereby become a part of the world instead of keeping separate as Jesus commanded.John 15:19; 17:14-16."

  It clear that in 1974, was officially stated in front of government officials that:

  a) " any work that is merely a substitute for military service.."

  and , just in case the position would not be clear enough it was added , always by " three representatives of Jehovahs witnesses "

  that :

  b) "Civilian servitude as a substitute for military service would be just as objectionable to the Christian."

  It should be added that this - firm - position was backed up

  supporting scriptures, i.e. John 15:19; 17:14-16.-

  Should we remind all, that any brother who might have chosen:

  " any work that is merely a substitute for military service.." or

  "Civilian servitude as a substitute for military service would

  be just as objectionable to the Christian."

  would have been considered, by the congregation's elders, according to the WTBS Inc.'s directives published in the elders' manual " Pay attention to the flock " as having dissociated himself from the congregation and as resultto be shunned and avoided by all " loyal Christians" in the congregation. (See ks/ page 101, sub heading " Implications of disassociation).

  Wothy reminder is also the article which was published in the year 1966

  (Awake ! September 22 nd , 1966 pages 21-23 ) and also in the Yearbook

  1991 where it is written:

  *** yb91 166 Sweden-1991 Yearbook Report ***

  Representatives of the branch office appeared before the committee, explaining that the Witnesses could not accept any substitute for military service whatsoever, no matter how praiseworthy the task.

  Please notice than in the early 70's , the : " epresentatives of the branch office", not the individual witness by himself, explained to a

  Governmental committee that:

  Witnesses could not accept any substitute for military service whatsoever, no matter how praiseworthy the task.

  In case one should forget, the WTBS Inc. hammered again the same

  nail in the year 1986, with this statement:

  *** w86 9/1 20 Christian Neutrals in a Bloodstained World ***

  16 These Christians continued to pay back Caesars things to Caesar. They obeyed the laws of the land as upright citizens. (Matthew 22:17-21; Romans 13:1-7) But more importantly, they paid back to God the things that belonged to him, including their dedicated lives and Christian worship. Hence, when Caesar demanded to have Gods things, they acted in harmony with the principles stated at Acts 4:19 and Ac 5:29. Whether the issue was shedding blood, noncombatant military work, alternative service, or saluting an image such as a national flag, faithful Christians took the position that there was no middle ground . In some cases they were executed because of this stand.Matthew 24:9; Revelation 2:10.

  Much surprise and indignation, was felt by thousands of brothers world-wide

  when such comments appeared on a magazine in 1998 :

  *** w98 8/15 17 Strengthening Our Confidence in God's Righteousness ***

  Feelings of Having Suffered Needlessly

  6 In the past, some Witnesses have suffered for refusing to share in an activity that their conscience now might permit. For example, this might have been their choice years ago as to certain types of civilian service. A brother might now feel that he could conscientiously perform such without overstepping his Christian neutrality regarding the present system of things.

  7 Was it unrighteous on Jehovahs part to allow him to suffer for rejecting what he now might do without consequences? Most who have had that experience would not think so. Rather, they rejoice that they had the opportunity of demonstrating publicly and clearly that they were determined to be firm on the issue of universal sovereignty. (Compare Job 27:5.) What reason could anyone have to regret having followed his conscience in taking a firm stand for Jehovah? By loyally upholding Christian principles as they understood them or by responding to the proddings of conscience, they proved worthy of Jehovahs friendship. Certainly, it is wise to avoid a course that would disturb ones conscience or that would likely cause others to be stumbled. We can think in this regard of the example that the apostle Paul set.1 Corinthians 8:12, 13; 10:31-33.

  9 In modern times, there have been some Witnesses who were very strict in their view of what they would or would not do. For that reason they suffered more than others. Later, increased knowledge helped them to expand their view of matters. But they have no reason to regret having earlier acted in harmony with their conscience, even when this possibly brought extra suffering.

  So, within the space of almost 40 years now itis the brothers fault !!

  It was their conscience after all ! On top of it, how nice , how grateful they

  should be nowbecause increased knowledge helped them to expand

  their view of matters . This is a clear case of adding insults to

  the injuries.

  In conclusion I do believe that again we can see very clearly,

  the devastating effects of another man opinion/viewpoint/doctrine, of

  a worldly proportion. Again just few words but how many lies does

  recent WTBS Inc. s history reveals.

  I hope that this part too, could be useful.

  Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  " Per quae peccat quis, per haec et torquetur " (Solomon , Wisdom, XI, 17)