Posts by cobweb

37

Police cordon around Honiton's Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses after fatal stabbing

by ShirleyW in

jw
friends

hey uk folks, what's going with this story?

was it an unbelieving mate that attacked and elder or something?.

cobweb

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/fatal-stabbing-at-jehovah-s-witness-hall-may-be-religious-hate-crime-say-police/story-30376760-detail/story.html

44

I appreciate "our" free speech.

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

i had given serious consideration too leaving the board.

i rationalised my views on " muslims" we're not held by the majority so i should leave.

but this would have been wrong thinking, instead i should appreciate the platform i was given to debate with free speech.

I share your "Muslim views" and find myself wanting to visit this board less due to the rabid anti-muslim sentiment which dominates on here. The Reddit board has none of that which is refreshing. I still come here for the JWrelated threads and have adopted an avoidance strategy for the Trump/Muslim/Terrorist attack type threads because they are no good for my peace of mind.

31

Have Jehovah's Witnesses Become Boring?

by David_Jay in

okay, that new video about 1975 has got people talking, and yes, the child abuse cases will always require us to remain vigilant...but after my having left in the late 1980s/early 1990s, it seems all the real "exciting" stuff is gone.

when i left the witnesses were still preaching that the "generation that was old enough to understand the events of 1914" will not pass away before armageddon comes.

no blood cards were our badges (not that stupid jw logo) and that card meant what it said, "no blood"!

cobweb

yeah I agree. The most popular threads on this board now seem to be politics related but they seem largely pointless because everyone is convinced they are right and can't understand why others can't see it and the pages go on and on forever without progress.

I think I know why you wrote this:

So we're left with taking our anger out on one another sometimes, biting and backbiting others we should be supporting after leaving the Witnesses, never stopping to realize that the people we should be arguing with are not each other but with the Witnesses.

I think its probably JWs who have become athiests like me who are more guilty of this. This board should be accepting of other people's beliefs and try to be respectful of them but because many posters are in the process of recovering from having the wool pulled over their eyes and are embracing a new zeal for scientific rationality, their anger can be directed toward belief in general and want to challenge and tear it down. Advocating any belief system with too much enthusiasm can be like a red flag to a bull to some on this board. I understand this - it is a very human reaction under the circumstances, but its unfortunate for those who do want to explore new spiritual paths, and it would be better if they could do so without having to be so defensive about it.

47

Has the Bible been redacted so that YAHWEH can be promoted to EL's position as Almighty God?

by I_love_Jeff in

for background, read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/yahweh, the section, "iron age i: el, yahweh, and the origins of israel.

" "el and his sons made up the assembly of the gods, each member of which had a human nation under his care, and a textual variant of deuteronomy 32:8–9 describes the sons of el, including yahweh, each receiving his own people.

"el, the kind, the compassionate,' 'the creator of creatures,' was the chief of the canaanite gods, and he, not yahweh, was the original 'god of israel'—the word 'israel' is based on the name el rather than yahweh.

cobweb

Thank you for taking the time to explain all of that David Jay. It is certainly a very different approach to the literalist Christianity that those used to the JW religion are used to and it requires a bit of mental expansion to grasp it.

I do have a binary mindset and want to pin things down to determine if things are true or not. I have rejected religion & God altogether. Your belief system seems to operate on a higher layer to this and therefore facts & debates about the evolution of man's conception of God don't really touch upon this.

What you describe of the Jewish understanding of God seems in some ways closer to something like Taoism than Christian literalism. I had not appreciated how different Jewish belief was.

47

Has the Bible been redacted so that YAHWEH can be promoted to EL's position as Almighty God?

by I_love_Jeff in

for background, read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/yahweh, the section, "iron age i: el, yahweh, and the origins of israel.

" "el and his sons made up the assembly of the gods, each member of which had a human nation under his care, and a textual variant of deuteronomy 32:8–9 describes the sons of el, including yahweh, each receiving his own people.

"el, the kind, the compassionate,' 'the creator of creatures,' was the chief of the canaanite gods, and he, not yahweh, was the original 'god of israel'—the word 'israel' is based on the name el rather than yahweh.

cobweb

David Jay

That is a fantastic & clear summary & matches everything i have read.

Could you explain something to me though on a personal level. When you are able to trace the evolution of the God of Israel - from its assimilation and blending of other ancient God's - seeing that God as essentially a man made construction, - is it still despite knowing this, the biblical God that you believe in or is it something different? If it is a different more evolved understanding of God, from where does this belief come from or is it that for you the spiritual belief is not bound by authoritative texts but is more about your own internal experience? If it is an internal experience then how does it connect to a shared understanding of what it to be Hebrew? Is it more about the shared sense of national identity than specific ideas about God?

I think for many Christians, if they were to deeply study the information you have outlined it, it would be the cause of them abandoning their belief. But for you it seems not to be the case.

47

Has the Bible been redacted so that YAHWEH can be promoted to EL's position as Almighty God?

by I_love_Jeff in

for background, read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/yahweh, the section, "iron age i: el, yahweh, and the origins of israel.

" "el and his sons made up the assembly of the gods, each member of which had a human nation under his care, and a textual variant of deuteronomy 32:8–9 describes the sons of el, including yahweh, each receiving his own people.

"el, the kind, the compassionate,' 'the creator of creatures,' was the chief of the canaanite gods, and he, not yahweh, was the original 'god of israel'—the word 'israel' is based on the name el rather than yahweh.

cobweb

There is a pretty solid scholarly consensus for this yes. Its a bit of a revelation when you learn about it.

The Early History of God by Mark S. Smith is very good if you want something more substantial on the subject.

25

How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

by I_love_Jeff in

read exodus 22:6-8

jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

cobweb

David Jay

I had understood that El Shaddai meant God of the mountain which made sense to me because both El and YHWH associated themselves with mountains. You translate it 'Almighty God' though. Why the difference?

25

How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?

by I_love_Jeff in

read exodus 22:6-8

jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.

8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.

cobweb

Great post David Jay. You really know your stuff.

9

BBC Radio 4 feature on child Abuse

by Isambard Crater in

jw
friends

on the radio this morning.

here is the link:.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08njt79.

cobweb

I heard this, this morning too. It was featured as a headline in the news and papers rundown at 8am and then i saw it had been the main story in the earlier 7:10am Sunday show. It was a good 18 minute long feature and they trailed it several times through the show.

BBC radio 4 is THE main talk radio channel in the UK - many like me set it as their morning alarm & i'm sure even going out so early, it got a good audience.

2

JW's vs Evangelicals

by cobweb in

someone on my twitter timeline has retweeted posts that contain the hashtag youdon'tknowevangelicals.

it surprised me how familiar a lot of the comments felt to me and i was struck that some of what i think of as jw behavior, mindset and attitude is shared by evangelicals.

there are differences too of course by read the list of tweets below and see if these sound familiar.

cobweb

I was particularly surprised by the Smurf reference. I really did think that was a JW only thing, and I say that as someone who only learned about it being 'a thing', on these boards after I left. Perhaps its a U.S centric issue lol