cobweb

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Posts by cobweb

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  13

  "Our Lord and Savior" . . . Seriously??

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  did anybody else notice in the convention drama when they went to the memorial the speaker called jesus "our lord and savior"?

  when have you ever heard jws use that phrase?

  christians, yes; jws, no..

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  cobweb

  Its been 20 years out for me but I do recall witnesses using that expression. Also from the UK.
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  85

  Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.

  just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.

  it would be good to show that this is not the case..

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  cobweb

  millions of christians manage to live with the tension between their faith-based beliefs and an acceptance of the facts of science.

  People are able to hold two contradictory ideas in their head at the same time. We were JW's so we know this. It does cause cognitive dissonance though.

  The way i dealt with evolution as a JW was to not think about evolution, thereby reducing the dissonance. I knew evolution was something science accepted and it was at odds with my belief so that meant I had to not be too curious about it, not place much value on it. This is normal for JW's and its quite rare for a JW to really have any scientific curiosity. When a David Attenborough nature documentary was shown, I would mentally filter out the frequent mentions of evolution. It was necessary and i did it subconsciously.

  As you say, there are Christians who do manage to believe in evolution but I think either they must have to make some substantial compromises to their beliefs to make it hold together in their head, are willfully obtuse or ignorant about it, or they don't think too hard about evolution or science in general.

  I don't quite understand how it is possible to value both Science and Christianity highly because it is such a compromised position. How is it possible to truly value Science, the scientific method and believe in evolution while also base ones central core belief on a bronze/iron age book full of supernatural stories which has no evidence whatsoever and clashes with a lot of scientific evidence that exists?

  If one values the scientific method one will take an evidential approach to the world, recognise the cognitive biases and logical fallacies that humans are victim to and try to eliminate these in ones thinking. By recognising and seeking to eliminate these biases and logical fallacies, it follows that belief systems for which there is no evidence will not be valued.

  But I know you weren't talking about value for the scientific method, just about Christians accepting evolution, so i have gone away from your point somewhat.

  
  
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  85

  Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.

  just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.

  it would be good to show that this is not the case..

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  cobweb

  I'm sure Cofty will be interested in the notion that all of his carefully constructed threads describing the evidence for the fact of evolution is just a faith in evolution no different from faith in a man in the sky.
• 
  85

  Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.

  just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.

  it would be good to show that this is not the case..

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  cobweb

  I'd definitely recommend the book Faith vs Fact: Why Science and Faith are Incompatible by Jerry Coyne if you haven't read it. I'd be interested to know what you thought.
• 
  85

  Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you identify as a christian but you have accepted that the diversity of life - including humans - resulted from a process of biological evolution could you add your name please?.

  just to be clear i am referring to the fact that our physical lineage could literally be traced back all the way to non-human species.. if you like maybe you could comment on why you see not conflict between evolution and your christian faith.. there is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism.

  it would be good to show that this is not the case..

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• 

  cobweb

  There is a tendency to conflate evolution with atheism. It would be good to show that this is not the case.

  I don't really understand where you are going with this. Do you yourself believe in Christianity as well as Evolution?

  I do see a conflict between having irrational beliefs such as in miracles and the resurrection of the dead and also a scientific approach which values evidence. If you do have the scientific approach, how can you then suspend it in the case of your chosen belief. It would be totally inconsistent.
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  11

  ISIS update

  by The Fall Guy in

  1. social
  2. humour

  it's reported that isis terrorists in syria are putting small video cameras on all of the vehicles they use, in order to use the footage as propaganda.

  they're calling them daesh-cams..

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  cobweb

  It was a funny joke though lol

  Daesh-cams
• 
  18

  Books are not dying out and this is not the reason for the WT turning to tablets

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there's a popular misconception that books in general are in terminal decline, that this is the reason the wt organisation has turned to tablets instead of print, and this in turn has created a financial crisis for the organisation which traditionally relied upon publishing books for income.

  this is wrong on a number of levels.

  firstly physical books are not in terminal decline, they are as popular as ever with consumers.

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  cobweb

  Your right, although many assumed books were going to become redundant, they are still popular. People like the tactile feel of a book. There are parallels to the resurgence of vinyl.

  I don't feel like there is a general misconception on this point though. When I asked my still in family about tablet use, one of the reasons they gave was that it saved the org money which they saw as a good thing as it could be used for other things. They also seemed to take pride in making use of modern technology, i suppose in the same way as Russell with his photodrama of creation and Rutherford with his phonographs.
• 
  11

  ISIS update

  by The Fall Guy in

  1. social
  2. humour

  it's reported that isis terrorists in syria are putting small video cameras on all of the vehicles they use, in order to use the footage as propaganda.

  they're calling them daesh-cams..

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  cobweb

  I wouldn't be optimistic. They may be being fought back in Syria and Iraq but they have a presence in a number of other countries around the world. The Philippines seems to be a new one. Also, as Cofty says, there will be a greater likelihood of terrorist attacks in the West.
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  6

  book advice about the 'jw experience'

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm looking for a book recommendation about the jw experience for the audience of a non-jw friend.. here is a scenario: you have recently left the jw religion and have made a friend who has little knowledge about your old religion.

  you would like them to understand more about you but at this point you feel awkward about explaining your religious background and don't feel confident that you can make them 'get it'.

  you decide you would like to give them a book that will do the grunt work of explaining it all; one that will give them a deeper insight into your former world than you feel able to provide, which will additionally explain why it is that you are now in the position you are, friendless, unsure of many things and adrift at an age where most people have got their life sorted.. if someone were in this situation and needed such a book, what you recommend?.

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  cobweb

  I'll check those out Wake me up. I think something with a narrative which has personal experience at the heart is going to work best for a non-JW, though i'm open to any suggestions. I agree about books such as Apocalypse Delayed and CoC. They're great books but neither seem quite suited to the purpose.

  Thanks also for the suggestion dubstepped. I'll give your podcast a listen. I would like a book ideally though if something appropriate exists.
• 
  6

  book advice about the 'jw experience'

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm looking for a book recommendation about the jw experience for the audience of a non-jw friend.. here is a scenario: you have recently left the jw religion and have made a friend who has little knowledge about your old religion.

  you would like them to understand more about you but at this point you feel awkward about explaining your religious background and don't feel confident that you can make them 'get it'.

  you decide you would like to give them a book that will do the grunt work of explaining it all; one that will give them a deeper insight into your former world than you feel able to provide, which will additionally explain why it is that you are now in the position you are, friendless, unsure of many things and adrift at an age where most people have got their life sorted.. if someone were in this situation and needed such a book, what you recommend?.

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  cobweb

  I'm looking for a book recommendation about the JW experience for the audience of a non-JW friend.

  Here is a scenario: You have recently left the JW religion and have made a friend who has little knowledge about your old religion. You would like them to understand more about you but at this point you feel awkward about explaining your religious background and don't feel confident that you can make them 'get it'. You decide you would like to give them a book that will do the grunt work of explaining it all; one that will give them a deeper insight into your former world than you feel able to provide, which will additionally explain why it is that you are now in the position you are, friendless, unsure of many things and adrift at an age where most people have got their life sorted.

  If someone were in this situation and needed such a book, what you recommend?