cobweb

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Posts by cobweb

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  80

  Major Doctrinal Changes Must Be On The Way

  by notsurewheretogo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the statement in the article "who is leading gods people today?

  " in the feb 17th study edition of the wt is very interesting.. it states: ""the g.b.

  is neither inspired nor infallible" ..we can err .in doctrinal matters....".

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  cobweb

  I think if you went to that watchtower study you would be majorly disappointed by the reaction. There won't be one.

  I am not convinced this is even a change. As far back as I remember they have always held two contradictory positions.

  For the most part they uphold the line that they are jehovah channel, spirit directed mouthpiece. This is their position of strength.

  However when it suits their purposes -when they make a mistake about prophecy they roll over on their back and use the 'we are imperfect men' line. I can't remember the exact wording of their 1975 non apology but wasn't that what they said? They don't tend to use this defence often as it takes away their power but it is in their historical arsenal.

  Witnesses are able to accept both positions and not recognise the contradiction.

  As for why they are using this 'we are just imperfect humans' argument now, I agree, I can't see a reason for it other than to lay the groundwork for changes in the future. This is like an apology for something that they haven't announced yet.
  
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  16

  The WTBTS' "Golden Calf"

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in recent months i have personally experienced 3 times how jehovah's witnesses' thinking and ad hominem attacks are being molded by their masters in the wtbts.. 1) j.w.

  family members have stated that i am no longer part of the family because i say "negative things" about the org.. 2) my closest friend in my former congregation complained several weeks ago that i was "finding fault" with the org every time we had a conversation.

  nothing from him since.. 3) when reverse witnessing to an elder at a trolley recently, he accused me of "criticizing the organization.".

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  cobweb

  WT ​February 2017 par.12, p.26 - "The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction."

  
  

  ...and yet, you still have to go along with everything they say as though they are.
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  21

  Is Christianity contingent on belief in a talking snake?

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a question mainly for those who are christian as i myself am not:.

  to what extent is christianity contingent on a belief in the book of genesis.

  i know there are some christians who accept that the creation story is a myth, and maybe the adam and eve story too.

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  cobweb

  Some interesting points, thank you. Yes I agree that a lot of the Christians jettison what they disagree with and stick with the central tenant that they find most emotionally compulsive - that of the general notion of Jesus life and sacrifice, resurrection etc. I think many are willing to cut the arms and legs off their belief system as long as the beating heart of Jesus can be retained. In that way Christianity is resistant to being killed through appeals to literal thinking and rational argument. But for someone who does come from a literal understanding of the Bible, like Jehovah's Witnesses, I wonder if a loss of belief in Adam and Eve etc would be more destructive to their overall faith.

  
  

  Suppose the Adam and Eve story was always known to be a metaphor, such that nobody thought to specify it when the story was told orally, as it was for hundreds of years before it was recorded in writing. Maybe the names Adam and Eve carry some connotation such that hearers always understood them to be archetypes, but that connotation has been lost to history.

  I can kind of buy that. I have been reading that it is the Greeks who gave us a more logical rational approach but in fact the Israelite had no problem with contradiction - so perhaps they really didn't care whether Adam and Eve and the serpent were real. I would point out though for what its worth that Luke chapter 3 does list a chronology that goes from Adam to Jesus.

  
  
  
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  21

  Is Christianity contingent on belief in a talking snake?

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a question mainly for those who are christian as i myself am not:.

  to what extent is christianity contingent on a belief in the book of genesis.

  i know there are some christians who accept that the creation story is a myth, and maybe the adam and eve story too.

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  cobweb

  Modern Christians can easily take it as metaphor. It describes the basic situation of guilt and sin entering into the world, but the snake doesn't have to be literal.

  What is sin in your view? Is it particular actions that a person takes? The Christian view is that all people are born sinners by virtue of decending from Adam and Eve, rather from any action taken. It is the specific actions that they took that tainted all following generations. This is what required Jesus's ransom sacrifice.

  Take Adam and Eve away - how is it now that i am born a sinner. I might say, I am a good person, not sinful. I don't need Jesus sacrifice. What is a Christian to say to that without referring to the Garden of Eden?
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  21

  Is Christianity contingent on belief in a talking snake?

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a question mainly for those who are christian as i myself am not:.

  to what extent is christianity contingent on a belief in the book of genesis.

  i know there are some christians who accept that the creation story is a myth, and maybe the adam and eve story too.

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  cobweb

  But it is not general 'sins' that Jesus was supposed to die for - it was Adam and Eve's original sin that everyone inherited. This was supposed to be a cosmic balancing.

  “So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous” (Rom. 5:18-19)

  I always thought this was the fundamental value of Jesus sacrifice - making up for Adam's sin. The Apostle Paul was quite explicit on that point. I suppose I can see how individial Christians might fudge an argument that this was generic human sin that Jesus was supposed to redeem but that is to ignore a central argument that Paul was making about the meaning of Jesus sacrifice.

  For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression” (1 Tim. 2:13-14)
  

  For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive” (1 Cor. 15:21-22)
  
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  21

  Is Christianity contingent on belief in a talking snake?

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a question mainly for those who are christian as i myself am not:.

  to what extent is christianity contingent on a belief in the book of genesis.

  i know there are some christians who accept that the creation story is a myth, and maybe the adam and eve story too.

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  cobweb

  If this is so, what is original sin? Isn't that what Jesus died to free people from?
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  21

  Is Christianity contingent on belief in a talking snake?

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is a question mainly for those who are christian as i myself am not:.

  to what extent is christianity contingent on a belief in the book of genesis.

  i know there are some christians who accept that the creation story is a myth, and maybe the adam and eve story too.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cobweb

  This is a question mainly for those who are christian as I myself am not:

  To what extent is Christianity contingent on a belief in the book of Genesis. I know there are some Christians who accept that the creation story is a myth, and maybe the Adam and Eve story too. But that puzzles me. Surely the idea of original sin, that we needed to be redeemed by Jesus Christ are all based on the beginning chapters of Genesis? Disbelieve that and there is no foundation to the value put on Jesus supposed sacrifice as Paul described.

  To me at least, the creation story, Adam and Eve and a talking snake are a bit of a weak fanciful idea to be the foundation of ones sense of personal salvation.
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  Goodreads members who liked Catherine Cookson also liked:

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower bible and tract society, apparently.. i wonder if this is a suggested approved reading list for jw's.. https://www.goodreads.com/author/similar/83837.catherine_cookson.

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  cobweb

  The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, apparently.

  I wonder if this is a suggested approved reading list for JW's.

  https://www.goodreads.com/author/similar/83837.Catherine_Cookson
  
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  8

  jw party goes very wrong.

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://youtu.be/q6b77gm8xxi.

  came across this audio recording on youtube which i found compelling.

  an xjw recounts the story of how jws recently had a big party in the us.

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  cobweb

  Sorry I didn't see it had been posted before. I know what you mean Slimboyfat. I kinda listening to it on that level - it is very salacious - but don't know whether to believe it or not. I found the second conversation with his wife authentic sounding. The idea of an ex jw crafting an audio play deception with fake hidden microphone etc is a bit bizzarre to me, but there does need to be external verification to treat it seriously.
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  8

  jw party goes very wrong.

  by cobweb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  https://youtu.be/q6b77gm8xxi.

  came across this audio recording on youtube which i found compelling.

  an xjw recounts the story of how jws recently had a big party in the us.

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  cobweb

  https://youtu.be/Q6B77gm8XxI
  

  Came across this audio recording on youtube which I found compelling. An xjw recounts the story of how Jws recently had a big party in the US. They all get wasted. A drunk jw brother leaves and drives his car over a drunk brother passed out on the ground and kills him. The first thing the JWs at the party do is call the elders. When the police come they lie about what happened.

  The guy posting this recorded his jw wife secretly, telling him about this and it is ethically dubious that he has posted it on youtube. But its a screwed up story if true. Perhaps there is someone here that can verify it?