Rubadub Aha!!!
scotoma
JoinedPosts by scotoma
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76
Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?
by yadda yadda 2 inrobert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.
"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.
they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.
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76
Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?
by yadda yadda 2 inrobert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.
"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.
they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.
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scotoma
As a parent of 4 children I encountered the "You do it too" argument all of the time.
It is a childish argument and it is no less childish for adults to use it.
Just because some people engage in a questionable behavior such as mocking or ridicule has no relevance to whether the practice deserves our acceptance.
The real problem is that such a childish argument usually sidelines the real issues.
There are 4 types of laughter (I believe Eric Berne discussed this in Transactional Analysis).
Ha Ha - Ridicule
Ho Ho - Benevolence
Heh Heh - Deceipt
Aha - Joy of discovery.
We want to get people to discover truth so they have a "reason" to change.
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76
Is it wrong to mock and ridicule the Watchtower Society?
by yadda yadda 2 inrobert j ingersoll on the great voltaire:.
"it has been claimed by the christian critics that voltaire was irreverent; that he examined sacred things without solemnity; that he refused to remove his shoes in the presence of the burning bush; that he smiled at the geology of moses, the astronomical ideas of joshua, and that the biography of jonah filled him with laughter.
they say that these stories, these sacred impossibilities, these inspired falsehoods, should be read and studied with a believing mind in humbleness of spirit; that they should be examined prayerfully, asking god at the same time to give us strength to triumph over the conclusions of our reason.
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scotoma
Mocking is not right or wrong in itself. It is a matter of personal style.
If your objective is to assist people in changing their belief then ridicule and mocking is NOT a good idea. It's a type of bullying and the result is the band wagon effect. People will enjoy the mocking, ridicule and kicking of the opponent and have a good laugh with you but the resulting mob walks off and nothing has changed. It's like beating a pinata for a few sweets. It is a technique to bring people to your side even though no logical reasons have been given for such a shift in viewpoint.
Actually resorting to humor and ridicule is a serious fallacy when it comes to argumentation. Humor and ridicule is often used in an effort to avoid serious discussion because a person doesn't want to invest the time it takes to respond appropriately to an opponents position.
There is room for humor in arguing but it should only be used to relieve tension so you can move on to the more important issues that require a serious response.
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29
Obama Speaks as The Great Whore
by scotoma inobama speaks at us war cemetery on d-day landings anniversary.
"united states of america is and will remain the greatest force for freedom the world has ever known.".
on may 28, obama delivered a commencement address to the us armys newest officers at west point, where he argued america would remain an empire forever.. .
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scotoma
Wizzstick,
Since I don't believe in an all powerful all knowing god I build my "belief" system around evolutionary materialistic principles.
So I am open to the possibility of other sentient beings on other planets in the multiverse (word describing aspects of the many worlds theory).
Individual organisms can be intelligent but there needs to be a social matrix for the development of really big ideas.
Today we benefit from the accumulated knowledge of billions of individuals.
Social structures rooted in sexual reproduction and long child-rearing are concerned with the survival of society. This springs from concern for those closest to us (relatives) and diffuses outward.
Advanced societies are interested in the welfare of others. By advanced I mean the realization that we are all related and therefore deserving equal rights. It is likely that this concern for others is intrinsic to the ability to build complex machinery including whatever technology might enable interdimensional travel.
This cultural evolution cannot be forced. It must emerge over long periods of time. Although it may be tempting to rescue people from war and starvation it would interfere with the natural development of a deep cultural realization of what is needed for species survival.
So these extradimensional observers would refrain from sharing information that could make matters worse. All species develop because of self interest. At some point that development gets the dominant species to the point where they can destroy themselves with weapons of mass destruction.
Somehow these cosmic older brothers need to introduce the need to survive by building a brotherhood. Nature gives us two methods of survival. Fight and flight. Of the two flight has the greatest possibility for survival because it buys time for thinking and planning. Fighting as an option is summed up by "who ever lives by the sword will die by the sword". When a country is going through a civil war some men fight but others flee with their families. Flight enables survival. Fight secures a boundary or border which is a setup for future disputes and war. A strong brother hood is an advantage in a flight situation.
The Bible is full of scenarios of survival by flight. The Bible is a lesson in the futility of fighting for your country. The nation of Israel fought to maintain its land. Eventually, they lost it. Christians were told to flee Jerusalem when the Roman armies were poised for attack. Likewise Christians were told if they persecute you in one city flee to another.
Eventually conditions will reach the point of a tribulation that will need to be cut short for the survival of all flesh. There will be survivors of that tribulation. They will survive because of flight to a place of protection. At the point where humans are going to destroy themselves these cosmic brothers will appear in the sky and bring an end to the battle.
The prophesies in Daniel, Revelation and other places in the Bible are meant to keep the flight reflex well tuned. These cosmic older brothers have probably saved many planets from losing their sentient species. They no doubt have big data and can look at the configuration of the continents and predict based on advanced statistical analysis who the players will be in the final show down.
This is the "elevator ride" description. There is a lot more. I just don't see any need in elaborating. I think the key is to look for a devastating event that is called the "disgusting thing standing where it shouldn't". That's the cue for flight.
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29
Obama Speaks as The Great Whore
by scotoma inobama speaks at us war cemetery on d-day landings anniversary.
"united states of america is and will remain the greatest force for freedom the world has ever known.".
on may 28, obama delivered a commencement address to the us armys newest officers at west point, where he argued america would remain an empire forever.. .
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scotoma
Apognophos:
Scholars are not necessarily correct. Specialists are narrow focused and form opinions that are often indefensible.
Scholars are not paid to do other peoples thinking for them.
Each individual needs to weigh evidence. If knowing that there are scholars that believe that there is no such thing as prophecy settles the issue for someone, well they might not want to go beyond that.
There are plenty of people like me who feel this is still an open ended question.
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29
Obama Speaks as The Great Whore
by scotoma inobama speaks at us war cemetery on d-day landings anniversary.
"united states of america is and will remain the greatest force for freedom the world has ever known.".
on may 28, obama delivered a commencement address to the us armys newest officers at west point, where he argued america would remain an empire forever.. .
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scotoma
DJS:
I post for myself. It is kind of a journal of the evolution of my opinions. If someone post something I extend them the courtesy of acknowledging that and try to further the conversation if the comment hints at the least bit of sincerity.
I'm certainly not trying to keep it alive. It has already gone over the time horizon where it is unlikely that too many people will visit it.
Anyhow, I will probably post again as I choose, and at that time anyone who doesn't want to engage me won't.
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29
Obama Speaks as The Great Whore
by scotoma inobama speaks at us war cemetery on d-day landings anniversary.
"united states of america is and will remain the greatest force for freedom the world has ever known.".
on may 28, obama delivered a commencement address to the us armys newest officers at west point, where he argued america would remain an empire forever.. .
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scotoma
Apognophos:
The preterist goal is to treat prophecy like some weird poetry that lets people vent their woes. They do this because they reject the notion that such a thing as "prophecy" is possible. This requires that they back engineer everything to fit the time period in which it was written. It is pure speculation. Worse yet it is incoherent speculation. They encounter questions they can't answer and that never can be answered because all the facts are supposedly already on the table and a lot doesn't fit. They end up with explanations that are quite similar to Watchtower techniques. They resort to strange relationships of collectives and classes.
Think about what you wrote: "The whore and the beast are largely the same character, Rome. It's just that the woman is the city and the hills are its rulers." Sounds like the old "faithful and discreet slave are the collective body of annointed and the domestics are the individuals." Or jesus didn't show up in 1914 as predicted so he had to have come invisibly." Who writes this stuff? John Levitt (Saturday Night Live's Habitual Liar). Yeah Yeah that's the ticket.
I am not prepared to take apart the preterist interpretations. Not because it is hard but there are enough ongoing arguments among preterists themselves over the meaning of revelation. And then you have the Protestant interpretations where everything takes a crazy turn so that the apostate catholic church becomes the whore. That's where the Russelites entered the picture and as JW's came up with the idea that all religion except JW make up a world empire of false religion.
My interpretation is based on parsimony. It is simple and even though some of the events haven't happened yet it isn't hard to see where it is all going.
Babylon is described as the richest entity on earth. Who could that be?
She has committed fornication with the kings of the earth. Who could that be?
She is trying to ride the Wild Beast which is some kind of succession of empires? Who could they be?
All those who have ships at sea mourn when she is suddenly destroyed by the Wild Beast. What could that mean?
The ten horns who have never had an empire gain that status by alliance with the Wild Beast. Former soviet states all of whom are separate political entities are being wooed by Russia.
The Soviet Union appeared slaughtered to death.
It's death stroke is healed. People wonder admiringly "Who is like the wild beast? Who can do battle with it? " Is Nato going to put Ukraine back together again and pull it into the European Union? That can't be answered for sure. But the reason it can't be answered is that it remains to be seen. The preterists don't have that luxury. If they don't know something - so what - it doesn't matter because it's history not prophecy.
The Two horned Wild Beast which emerges from the earth in Rev 13:11 that looked docile and lamblike but reverted to its dragon like speech and makes the earth worship the beast that had the deathstroke that healed? Is it mere coincidence that Russia looked like you could lead it around with a shepherds commands. It was so docile under Yeltsin and for the early part of Putin's rule. Not any more. It's back to business as usual.
Somewhere in that tangled mess of symbolism the preterists try to construct a coherent picture and being unable simply write it off as a bunch of allegorical ecstatic ramblings.
Yet those symbols parallel the visions of Daniel. Where Revelation is the Wild Beast vs. The Harlot the book of Daniel the King of the North vs. the King of the South.
I'm not a prophet. But I do have eyes.
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29
Obama Speaks as The Great Whore
by scotoma inobama speaks at us war cemetery on d-day landings anniversary.
"united states of america is and will remain the greatest force for freedom the world has ever known.".
on may 28, obama delivered a commencement address to the us armys newest officers at west point, where he argued america would remain an empire forever.. .
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scotoma
Apog:
OK if Babylon the Great is/was Rome what is the Wild Beast she was sitting on? You know the Wild Beast that all the earth admired?
If you can explain it better than what I present go ahead. I doubt you can.
The one rule you need to follow is the characters that fullfill the prophecy must be "significant".
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29
Obama Speaks as The Great Whore
by scotoma inobama speaks at us war cemetery on d-day landings anniversary.
"united states of america is and will remain the greatest force for freedom the world has ever known.".
on may 28, obama delivered a commencement address to the us armys newest officers at west point, where he argued america would remain an empire forever.. .
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scotoma
Band on the Run,
Stop running and start reading american history.
When you make a statment that starts out with "WHEN ALL IS FACTORED" that is a red flag that you are engaged in special pleading because you obviously haven't considered ALL factors. What's worse is that you must be skipping over the massacre of Indians in the process of stealing their land. You also really haven't factored in the practice of slavery and the inhumane treatment of slaves.
Nor have you factored in the 500,000 children that died in Iraq as a result of the embargo. These are just a few of the atrocities that have been committed by the USA. Do you need to see an exhaustive list of these things?
The USA is NOT a city on the hill except perhaps in the senile minds of the Ronald Reagan types.
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29
Obama Speaks as The Great Whore
by scotoma inobama speaks at us war cemetery on d-day landings anniversary.
"united states of america is and will remain the greatest force for freedom the world has ever known.".
on may 28, obama delivered a commencement address to the us armys newest officers at west point, where he argued america would remain an empire forever.. .
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scotoma
Maybe there are cosmic "big brothers" who are interested in keeping other sentient life from going extinct.
They can't intervene unless extinction was certain.
They likely have seen this situation many times in many places in the multiverse.
They could look at where intelligent life would start (tropical) area and proceed outward.
Stages of the evolution of civilizations could be plotted.
One popular geopolitical theory is the world island theory of Sir Halford Mackinder, George Kennan, and Jozef Pilsudski. This idea has been the driving force behind the relations between Russia and the USA.
The final battle that results in the Great Tribulation is not between good and evil but it is given a geopolitical orientation of North against South.
The South pushes the North and the North prevails.
ATTRIBUTION: ALEXIS DE TOCQUEVILLE, Democracy in America, ed. J. P. Mayer,
trans. George Lawrence, vol. 1, part 2, Conclusion, final paragraphs, pp. 412–13 (1969).
Originally published in 1835–1840.QUOTATION: There are now two great nations in the world which, starting from different
points, seem to be advancing toward the same goal: the Russians and the Anglo-Americans. Both
have grown in obscurity, and while the world’s attention was occupied elsewhere, they have
suddenly taken their place among the leading nations, making the world take note of their birth
and of their greatness almost at the same instant. All other peoples seem to have nearly reached
their natural limits and to need nothing but to preserve them; but these two are growing…. The
American fights against natural obstacles; the Russian is at grips with men. The former combats
the wilderness and barbarism; the latter, civilization with all its arms. America’s conquests are
made with the plowshare, Russia’s with the sword. To attain their aims, the former relies on
personal interest and gives free scope to the unguided strength and common sense of individuals.
The latter in a sense concentrates the whole power of society in one man. One has freedom as the
principal means of action; the other has servitude. Their point of departure is different and their
paths diverse; nevertheless, each seems called by some secret desire of Providence one day to
hold in its hands the destinies of half the world.If humans can see this it wouldn't be hard for some other technically advanced world with sophisticated statistical analysis to figure out much more.