Posts by Martini

27

baptism.....again

by claudia in

jw
friends

hi, i dont know how to tell my family that i dont wish to be baptized yet, i want to be baptized to serve jehovah, but i am unsure about being baptized as one of jehovahs witness.

why cant i just be baptized like it says in the bible?

what can i tell my family?

Martini

Hi Claudia,

I'm sure you can appreciate that it's difficult to give advice without knowing certain particulars about a persons circumstances and background so please accept our comments as general suggestions.

You asked, "how do I tell my family that I don't wish to be baptized yet?"

I believe you can tell them in those exact words. Of course your tone of voice here is very crucial. It must be said in a calm,
respectable and non-arguementative manner. Remember nobody accepts changes over night, so you may have to repeat your position often. Perhaps others in your family or congregation of your age group were/are already baptized at your age ,thus setting the standard that your parents are looking to for you also. They may not at this time accept a deviance from the norm, but if you stick to your guns, eventually they will adapt to your point of view towards a later
baptism.

Then you said,
I want to be baptized to serve Jehovah, but i am unsure about being baptized as one of jehovahs Witness. why cant i just be baptized like it says in the bible? what can i tell my family? thanks in advance

I agree with you here that the scriptures do encourage Christians to be baptized. However
the WTS has made it so that JW's are also baptized into the Organization, especially in view of the current baptisimal questions.

Again if your unclear about 'belonging' to the WTS Organization (and I mean this in a VERY literal sense)then it would be wise to wait until you are more certain, before taking this huge step of baptism. The WTS claims baptism is only a normal progression in our dedication to GOD however baptism into the Organization binds you with many extra-biblical resposiblities exclusive to JW',and I think you know what these are.

All a person can say is he/she is not ready,
all the while revealing little by little what your true feelings are, and remaining hopeful that your family will accept you for who you are. At least if you should decide to leave the Org. they will not have to shun you, like they would have to if you were baptized and later disfellowshipped.

Wishing you happiness.
Your friend,
Martini.

32

The Holy Spirit

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

okay, i'm interested in what everybody thinks on this.

i believe that for the most parts all religions start off with a good motive, i.e., to provide a forum that will help people to serve god.

(basically).

Martini

Hi Frenchy,

First off are you certain the H.S. is Jehovah's active force and not some third person in a Godhead?

Hehehe...actually I say that with a smirk on my face because I'm not serious when I ask that question, however I do wish to point out there are as many beliefs as there are people on this whole religion thing.

It appears that what beliefs are real and work for one person do not for another and yet each is comfortable with their own brand.

These same issues are evident in all religions including our own. Only difference with our JW brand is that if we choose to disagree our whole life is disrupted.

Therefore my biggest contention right now is that the Society should allow for liberal
congregational discussion periods of our beliefs OR allow for exiting our belief system all together but without reprisals.

Sorry to have changed the subject on you Frenchy, but what your pointing to is a deviance from traditional WT teaching. Even though I may agree with you that Holy Spirit is operative upon any individual with faith, how can I seek new beliefs when it's difficult to release myself from present beliefs without getting DF'd for apostacy?

Still very open of course to hearing views of others on the subject you have raised here regarding God's H.S.

Love and Friendship,
Martini...

105

I'm a Neutral Jehovah's Witness

by Martini in

jw
friends

dear brothers and sisters,.

i martini, will confide in you that i have become a neutral jehovah's witness.

i wonder if i'm not coining a new phrase here!.

Martini

Dear Friends,

I wish I had more time to spend with you here.Most times all I have time for is to take a quick look and read what all of you are saying without making a reply, but rest assured I will as soon as I can.I am also of the impression that the same goes for all posters here, so let's not get discouraged if participation isn't what we would like it to be...got that Simon:).

Just a thought to those posting here,I'm not too concerned about your status within the Organization. After reading about and dicovering how badly our disfellowshipping policies are affecting former witnesses, I have nothing but compassion for these individuals and their families. Having said that I would still talk to you, even in person if I had to,so long as we can respect one another with fine manners of speech and conduct or as some call it good etiquette,OR heck with just plain good old Christain love.

Claudia,
You raise an excellent subject at this time.
I agree with Frenchy, baptism into the organization is a very serious proposition.I read somewhere that getting baptized is like commiting the 'unforgivable sin'.When you stop and think about this, there is much truth in that so long as your not a baptized publisher the brotherhood will tolerate your lack of living up to the 'status quo'.Even if your were to fall into sin the consequences are not nearly as devastating.
Take your time and weigh out all your options first.

Frenchy,
I think we can be thankful for your input Frenchy given your experience with the Org.Too I can appreciate that your example was not intended to bash the elders or the Org. but simply to support your point.I am hopeful that this DB can continue to
distinguish itself as being a reflection of witnesses who have sincere and honest questions and doubts about our worship with a view to finding realistic solutions and compromise with the organization.

Brothers, is this too much to ask for?

I can see we are all approaching our open-ness with prudence and this is good.
Prov 15:28
The heart of the righteous one meditates so as to answer,but the mouth of the wicked ones bubbles forth with bad things.

Thanks again friends.Talk to you later.

Martini, who can feel the warm winds of change are a comin! Praise Jah.

105

I'm a Neutral Jehovah's Witness

by Martini in

jw
friends

dear brothers and sisters,.

i martini, will confide in you that i have become a neutral jehovah's witness.

i wonder if i'm not coining a new phrase here!.

Martini

To my friends 7of9,Claudia,Spectromise and
Frenchy.

Thanks, you guys are wonderful.
This forum is becoming a special meeting place for me, thanks Simon.
It feels good to be able to speak up and to sense some understanding, finally!
I hate to think that after two and a half
decades, logging on tens of thousands of
service hours, helping a half dozen young
folks find the 'way' to God, that all this
should be reduced to 'dust in the wind'!

As of yet I have no idea where the dust will settle, but perhaps those of us on a board like this can be supportive and assist one another to deal with our individual and personal concerns. Perhaps the Society feels they have the Elder arrangement in place to deal with these issues, but in reality those poor men are hard straped to following written rules and regulations in handling sensitive issues, such as those I have expressed. Myself and I'm sure all of you do not wish to make any trouble for the Society but we do want to be heard. I wish the brothers in leadership roles would listen to our pleas for honest discussion.
Perhaps indirectly we can communicate to the Society through our posts right here, right now!

Love you guys, please let's continue to talk along these lines.

Martini, who is stuck in Neutral!

105

I'm a Neutral Jehovah's Witness

by Martini in

jw
friends

dear brothers and sisters,.

i martini, will confide in you that i have become a neutral jehovah's witness.

i wonder if i'm not coining a new phrase here!.

Martini

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I Martini, will confide in you that I have become a Neutral Jehovah's Witness. I wonder if I'm not coining a new phrase here!
I believe this is a catagory of latter day witnesses who like me are still active but in their heart of hearts are tired of the routine. They no longer wish to follow entirely the prescribed pattern of spiritual and material behavior recommended in detail to us through the pages of the Watchtower.

Does anybody hear what I am saying?
Brothers where is the problem with these folks, like myself?

I need your comments to ponder.
Please don't parrot by saying..."be regular at your meetings, be regular in field service, read your bible, pray and comment at all your meetings", because I've heard this all before, and...
IT is NOT working for me personally!

Are there ONLY 2 options;
1.To remain Neutral and unhappy in serving
God through the WT prescribed way OR
2.To leave the Organization and heeping upon myself all the consequences of losing family,
and possibly to lose God's favor and be destroyed by Him?

Martini, who has waited long enough to ask these tough questions.

47

What's Sacred, what's not?

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

let's put forth a question here that should provoke some interesting responses.

please feel free to give your thoughts on the matter inasmuch as that is the purpose of these boards.

we (jehovah's witnesses) do not accept blood transfusions on the principle that 'blood is sacred'.

Martini

Frenchy,

I like to believe that IF our ban on blood
transfusions IS scriptural than we should respect it like we respect God's law on blood shed (murder). Nobody seems to object that murder in any way, shape or form is wrong. Why? because it's a law, universally clear and acceptable to all peoples. Our blood stance apparently is not so clear and
acceptable by all people even witnesses. So it should remain purely a matter of personal conscience.BTW this principle should apply to
all doctrine that is unclear in scripture.
As it is I for one would NOT accept a blood
transfusion, ONLY because I could not stand
to hear hundreds of family members
murmuring that I was disfellowshipped for
accepting a blood transfusion. I would
prefer to die on the operating table than to die tortured by gossip.
If Society lifted the blood ban I would
accept it but ONLY as a very last resort.

Martini...who has never needed a pint!

6

What's it gonna be?

by Frenchy in

jw
friends

some time back i noted on another board that what is really needed is a site wherein a witness can discuss his faith.

not a site where everything that is not considered 'positive' is censored (what can you discuss then?

) and not a site for bashing jw's (if there is nothing positive, what's the point?

Martini

Greetings good people,

Frenchy, I concur with your logic.
If the hearer of prayer censored all
our thoughts, who could pray!

I wouldn't say anything here that I wouldn't say to Jah in prayer, and trust me I bet
He has to take things I say with a grain of
salt at times, but hey what's He paid the
big price for anyway? Christ's Ransom that is.:)

Martini,
;who at times talks like someone who is full of sweet wine at the third hour, so please
don't take things as they appear K.
Ac 2:15

Hey speaking of Acts2 did anyone read that
piece a brother wrote, showing how the 120
disciples were not in the upper room?
If you don't recognise what I'm speaking
about, drop it k!

26

THE END is no longer...

by Martini in

jw
friends

...at the tip of my tongue!.

question:.

i know we are not into end time dates anymore.however suppose you are in your.

Martini

...at the tip of my tongue!

Question:

I know we are not into end time dates anymore.However suppose you are in your
mid-forties,would you feel comfortable
saying to non-believers that the end of
this wicked system is expected within
your life time?
Personally I cannot bring myself to utter
those words anymore, as I did prior to the
'generation' change. I simply say we do not
know when the end will come, this despite
the fact that our publications still place the End as imminently upon us.

Martini,
P.S. Please delete if this post is found
offensive or controversial.
Many thanks.

31

Would you listen to a rumour?

by Simon in

jw
friends

remember that article brothers?we have been up and running for less than a week and already have had accusations of apostacy bandied about.please stop and think before you make a serious allegation like this.

imagine the hurt it would cause to a genuine brother if it wasn't true.this doesn't mean that we should let our guard down against those who would try and disrupt things or cause divisions amongst us but i'm sure these poeple would like nothing more than to see us fall out with each other.some of these rumours have been spread by members of other boards or people pretending to be them.just be on your guard to this sort of activity and help us by not passing on unfounded accusations.thank you.

Martini

Hi Simon,

>>How did you decide on your nickname - favourite drink? Maybe I should change myself to 'Stella Artois 500ml can'

Nope I drink RYE...In another language
Martini means small martian...LOL
Actually your close, these "Spirit" terms have a way of getting our creative juices
flowing, thats why I used them both in a
figurative and literal way! LOL

Anyhow about JW rumors, I believe the
internet will set the record straight.
Sooner or later the facts will dominate.

Talk ta ya Simon,

Martini...No Rossi
P.S. what is 'Stella Artois'?

31

Would you listen to a rumour?

by Simon in

jw
friends

remember that article brothers?we have been up and running for less than a week and already have had accusations of apostacy bandied about.please stop and think before you make a serious allegation like this.

imagine the hurt it would cause to a genuine brother if it wasn't true.this doesn't mean that we should let our guard down against those who would try and disrupt things or cause divisions amongst us but i'm sure these poeple would like nothing more than to see us fall out with each other.some of these rumours have been spread by members of other boards or people pretending to be them.just be on your guard to this sort of activity and help us by not passing on unfounded accusations.thank you.

Martini

Simon,

Great board bro, looking forward to posting
little later, just to let you know with my
very first post I'm in support of your
approach. Let Jah's Spirit Rule.

Later,
Martini