Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free wills involve, and you will find that you have excluded life itself.
botchtowersociety
JoinedPosts by botchtowersociety
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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botchtowersociety
The universe is uncaring, how much evidence do we need - its is surely self-evident.
That is a normative statement. When you use terms like uncaring, you are making judgements on what constitutes caring, and what does not. You make a moral, or value judgement. On what foundation can you make that statement?
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course, I could have given up my idea of justice by saying that it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist--in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless--I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality--namely my idea of justice--was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.
That's fine by me but lets not pretend its anything other than a 21st Century American, Johnny-come-lately, let's all feel good about ourselves, version of the gospel.
If that were the case, you would possibly have an argument. I recommend you investigate historical non-Protestant teachings on sin and justification.
How many christians would admit that the natural world is pure carnage and that god made it that way?
The world is still in a state of becoming. We have a role to play in its future. That is part of why we are here.
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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botchtowersociety
That is just one sort of Christianity, Cofty. A great many of us do not believe we are condemnded, or deserving of death.
I find the atheist's characterization, on this thread, of the Universe as a horrid place to be rather dehumanizing as well.
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328
A few Dawkins quotes to think about.
by AK - Jeff in"faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.".
"my last vestige of "hands off religion" respect disappeared in the smoke and choking dust of september 11th 2001, followed by the "national day of prayer," when prelates and pastors did their tremulous martin luther king impersonations and urged people of mutually incompatible faiths to hold hands, united in homage to the very force that caused the problem in the first place.".
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botchtowersociety
It is an amazing, wonderful Universe.
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9
Britain is better than USA and Canada for Music
by eruption inthe beatles, led zepplin, the rolling stones, pink floyd, the who, the sex pistols,cream, duran duran, queen, radiohead, the smiths,black sabbath, deep purple, oasis,progidy.
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botchtowersociety
Dylan, The Doors, Allman Brothers, Grateful Dead, Eagles, Hendrix, Miles Davis, BB King, Willie Nelson, Elvis Presley (before the army stint), Johnny Cash, Ray Charles, The Beach Boys, Lynyrd Snynyrd (before the plane crash), Aerosmith (before MTV), Van Halen, The Ramones, Lou Reed/Velvet Underground, Talking Heads
Creedence Clearwater Revival, Boston, Kansas, Journey (Yes I do like them) , Fleetwood Mac (OK that's both), Tom Petty, Guns N Roses, Metallica, Jane's Addiction, Alice in Chains, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against the Machine, Nine Inch Nails, Green Day, Dave Matthews.....
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botchtowersociety
And the Spice Girls.
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botchtowersociety
Bob Dylan strongly influenced the Beatles.
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botchtowersociety
The British were/are very good at taking American music styles and doing great things with them.
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botchtowersociety
Much darker. I should have said, color castaño oscuro.
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botchtowersociety
Mis ojos son de color castaño.