StandFirm

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Posts by StandFirm

• 
  67

  In response to Standfirm's comment about the two witness rule.

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  standfirm told me thatl.

  ife is to short,.

  the jw organization says that two witnesses to separate acts of wrongdoing are acceptable for someone to be df'ed.. "if there is another witness to the same type of sin on the part of the accused, this would be basis for forming a judicial committee.

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  StandFirm

  life is to short,
  
  At the time of my response I did not realise that you had been abused. I am very sorry to hear it. I hope you are feeling okay, and that the abuser and any who covered it up get what they deserve. I also apologize if my comments were taken as callous, which they in a sense were. I only thought you were commenting on the policy, not that you were abused yourself. That was my mistake.
  
  Regarding your comments on Witness policy,
  
  You wrote:
  "First of all it dose not say that the accused could be DF'ed all it says is that it would be the basis for forming a judicial committee a far cry from being DF'ed."
  
  But it is the first step in that process. Being hardened in a course of sin, like abusing others, is generally considered indicative of lack of repentance. Even if the person was somehow considered repentant, child abuse always means that a public reproof is given with a warning talk on the same subject, thus all will know what the person did.
  
  "Unless a child has the ability to come forward when he or she is raped at the age of six, seven, eight, nine or ten years of age which most kids cannot do. I know I could not do IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
  
  That is, sadly, true in many cases, but not all.
  
  "Then what they say later in life when they are in their 20's, 30's or 40's is memories."
  
  The 1995 Watchtower was speaking about repressed memories, not memories you carry with you always but don't speak about.
  
  "The elders will say..."
  
  I think that this is attributing bad motives to the elders. Even if some elders were so callous, such an attitude has always been condemned by the organization. People in the world in general have said similar things, but that doesn't mean all of the world has such a callous attitude.
  
  "Even if they say that yes Brother Wonderful fondled then or made them before oral sex on him they will not be believed because they were alone when he did it."
  This is precisely the thing the "Flock" book spoke against. They stated that "another witness to the same type of sin" was sufficient for judicial action to be taken.
  
  "We are asked why did we not speak up when we were children and you are thinking in you head I am 40 years old and you are not believing me now, what chance in hell did I have as a 10 year old or 6 year old to be believed. What the molester said was true no would believe me if I did tell. It is true no one does even now that I am 40 years old."
  
  That is very sad. It is a human failing, not an organizational one.
  
  "There is no answer the victim dies either way you look at it."
  
  Sadly, that is true. No matter how well things are handled afterwards the damage has been done.
• 
  14

  Elders' Manual - Prior to "Flock" Book

  by StandFirm in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watch tower publications index under "watch tower publications" under the "books" subheading mentions the following elders' manuals prior to the 1991 "flock" book.

  1960: kingdom ministry school course.

  1972: kingdom ministry school course (revised).

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  StandFirm

  St George of England: That booklet has some info from legal cases up to 1950. I have that in hard copy form.
• 
  14

  Elders' Manual - Prior to "Flock" Book

  by StandFirm in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watch tower publications index under "watch tower publications" under the "books" subheading mentions the following elders' manuals prior to the 1991 "flock" book.

  1960: kingdom ministry school course.

  1972: kingdom ministry school course (revised).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  StandFirm

  Marvin Shilmer,

  Have you considered sharing the information therein? It would be a great help to discussion by both pro- and anti-JWs as the later manuals have.

  If you would be willing, I have a couple questions to ask here about a couple of subjects.
• 
  14

  Elders' Manual - Prior to "Flock" Book

  by StandFirm in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watch tower publications index under "watch tower publications" under the "books" subheading mentions the following elders' manuals prior to the 1991 "flock" book.

  1960: kingdom ministry school course.

  1972: kingdom ministry school course (revised).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  StandFirm

  InterestedOne: Does it matter? It's none of their business.
• 
  20

  The two witness rule on child abuse still makes my blood boil

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  today while i was working i remembered a wt on there having to be two witness to a person who comes forward later in life saying he had been molested as a chld and i was thinking no it really could not have been to blatant like i remembered it.

  sadly i did find it and no i remembered it right.

  it to me is sick!

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  StandFirm

  Hey OUTLAW. I came back for research purposes and thought I'd mix it up a little while I'm here. Anyway, what is this about with pedophiles not bringing an audience?

  The victim is a witness to their own molestation. Can you imagine any organization that would take action against someone on the word of one person alone with no corroborating evidence?
• 
  14

  Elders' Manual - Prior to "Flock" Book

  by StandFirm in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watch tower publications index under "watch tower publications" under the "books" subheading mentions the following elders' manuals prior to the 1991 "flock" book.

  1960: kingdom ministry school course.

  1972: kingdom ministry school course (revised).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  StandFirm

  St George of England: Those are the equivalents of the Organized book, not the elders' manual, and they are available at http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/booklets/ptiu.html and http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/booklets/preaching.html

  Thank you though.

  Remember all, these elders' manuals will help you expose JWs more, or expose apostates more, depending on who you'd ask.
• 
  20

  The two witness rule on child abuse still makes my blood boil

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  today while i was working i remembered a wt on there having to be two witness to a person who comes forward later in life saying he had been molested as a chld and i was thinking no it really could not have been to blatant like i remembered it.

  sadly i did find it and no i remembered it right.

  it to me is sick!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  StandFirm

  life is to short,

  The JW organization says that two witnesses to SEPARATE acts of wrongdoing are acceptable for someone to be DF'ed.

  "If there is another witness to the same type of sin on the part of the accused, this would be basis for forming a judicial committee."-Flock book, elders' manual, published in 1991.
• 
  14

  Elders' Manual - Prior to "Flock" Book

  by StandFirm in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watch tower publications index under "watch tower publications" under the "books" subheading mentions the following elders' manuals prior to the 1991 "flock" book.

  1960: kingdom ministry school course.

  1972: kingdom ministry school course (revised).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  StandFirm

  The Watch Tower Publications Index under "Watch Tower Publications" under the "Books" subheading mentions the following elders' manuals prior to the 1991 "Flock" Book. They are:

  1960: Kingdom Ministry School Course

  1972: Kingdom Ministry School Course (revised)

  Under "Brochures":

  1977: "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" (first brochure)

  1979: "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" (second brochure)

  1981: "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" (third brochure)

  I already have the 1991 "Flock" book both without and with notes. I also have the 2010 Shepherding book.

  My request is, Where can I find downloads of any of the older elders' manuals listed above?

  Thanks in advance!
• 
  25

  2011 Convention Releases - PDFs?

  by StandFirm in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  does anyone have links for pdfs of any of the convention releases this year?.

  many thanks..

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• 

  StandFirm

  BTTT.
• 
  15

  WT scars that run deep

  by man in black in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my son who is 26 yrs.

  old recently confided in my wife and myself that he is having a rough time moving on past the jw mindset.. he was associated with the witnesses for the first 24 years of his life, and he really tried to do the whole witness thing correctly, yet he was and still is a shy person.

  now that he has been out for two years, he is having a lot of anger toward people who believe in god.

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  StandFirm

  Don't similar things happen to people who leave any religion they've been with the total of their life so far?