Well, as usual, we see another example of the "great love" and "mercy" that JW's have for humanity, much less their own members. I honestly don't think I can name one other organization that destroys families with such callousness and hatred. Well, maybe Adolph Hitler. That's not saying much for the WT when THEIR version of Christianity sounds just like Hitler's version of Nazism. Any thoughts on this??
mcsemike
JoinedPosts by mcsemike
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Couple's faith tested
by Dogpatch ingreat yarmouth mercury, uk - 19 hours ago.
members of the bradwell congregation - including their only child, a daughter - are now forbidden from speaking to david and brenda gibbons since they were forced to.
they were thrown out by a judicial committee at great yarmouth kingdom hall in july, after writing a letter containing personal criticism to another member of the congregation.. .
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WHY IS THE WTBTS OBSESSED WITH MASTURBATION????!!!!!
by Gill inwhat exactly is the cause of the wtbts total obsession with masturbation?.
is there any religion in the world that has printed so many articles on this topic?.
if your feelings are similart to those of luiz, pedro or andre, take courage.
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mcsemike
First, I think it is sick that a group of men question young people, and especially females, about this subject. Don't they always advise young girls with "certain problems" to go to their mother or a "mature sister"? My bet is most "mature sisters" do it also, especially if their husbands have died or are impotent.
Secondly, I wish all of you would use a larger font. I'm having trouble reading all of these comments.
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How much influence did the internet have on you leaving the organization?
by The wanderer inuntitled document <!-- .style1 {font-family: verdana} .style2 {font-family: verdana; font-style: italic; } --> discoveries about the organization on the internet admittedly, had it not been for the internet, and all of the dis-.
coveries that were found on it; i would still be one of jehovah's .
witnesses.
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mcsemike
I had my doubts in the early 1990's, and I know the internet was there, but it wasn't anything like it is today. Also, some had quit the WT in the 1970's and 80's, but not that many. Now if you take how many have left, along with all the information on the internet, especially all of the BOE letters and other documents, it is so easy to see the WT's nonsense from day ONE.
I had an extensive library, even having the Studies in the Scriptures by Russell that I got at a flea market in PA Dutch country 20 years ago. But I didn't have access to the WT and Awake (and it's earlier names) from 1890 to 1950, so much of the nonsense was unknown to most, including me. After the aluminum cookware, reading bumps on Russell's head, vaccinations, Rutherford's being a drunk, the hatred he held toward the world, 1925, blah, blah and so forth, I wondered why I hadn't checked all this first. But again, it just wasn't easy to find.
You get love-bombed when you show up. My family was disfunctional. I was looking for the meaning of life. I also went to the first meeting to please an old friend who became a JW. I met a woman that first night and our eyes locked. We got marrried that year.
It's hard to check on all the negative stuff when a few dozen people have you over for dinner every night for a year, you meet and start dating your future wife, everyone was my age, etc. This was in 1977. Even though the 1975 had failed, everyone seemed to think that we might be off a few years, so what?
I also remember, and Ray Franz mentioned this in his book, the 1970's were more mellow and tolerant. Half of ever hall I ever visited was the age of late 20's, early 30's. So I had an instant family, but one that was my generation. (OOPS, NAUGHTY WORD. OH MY GOD, I'M GOING TO DIE! ARRGGgghhhh........)
Sorry, I made it back. (No light at the end of the tunnel with Jesus calling me.) Anyway, we played softball after each Sunday meeting, had picnics on Saturday afternoons, and other things. It's pretty hard not to be impressed with 200 people all getting along and acting like they've known each other for 40 years and are all related.
Again, I now know I joined for psychological reasons. If my wife, whom I married in 1977, had quit 3 years later, I might have as well. When things got tougher in the 1980's, especially 1983, it wasn't fun anymore to be a JW. Of course, that's no reason to choose this religion, but they just "felt right". I never thought to see if they "were right". Now I have and I know the real truth. My best to all.
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WAYNE CAIRNS - JW Elder EXPOSED - Pleads Guilty to "Indecent Act"
by Scully inthe morning star sept 24, 2006 page a6 vernon bc canada newspaper.
the article reads and i quote in full: .
school bus driver given conditional discharge .
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mcsemike
Metatron: How low can they go? They are already at the very bottom. (No pun intended.) They live in a sewer of lies, deceit, corruption and the breakin of every decent Bible principle I ever read. I know when I used to question elders and CO's, I'd get the "you weren't there, you might not have all the facts". Ane YOU WERE?? I asked??? Do I have to live in Malawi and Mexico for ten years each before I'm qualified to see the BS about the party card and military service. Do I have to be a delegate to the UN to verify that the WT was a whore when it joined the UN? I play the piano, better than most, perhaps. But if I'm playing even "Mary had a little lamb", and I hit a clunker, any five year old can hear it and tell me I made a mistake. He doesn't have to be better than I am to hear an error. I can get cute and say, "Okay, if you're so good, you come up here and play it better." But that's not the point. The WT already puts itself ahead of ALL other humans in every field of endeavor. My point is that the rank and file are perfectly capable or researching the Bible and the proof on the Internet WITHOUT THE WT'S HELP, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!! Many of us are writer's, scientists, highly educated, network administrators. I don't need the WT's permission to research the Internet and when I find something wrong then I have to report it, only to be told that Satan controls the media and of course he'd lie about us. Editors are NOT going to risk their jobs to make up sensationalism just to get a raise.
How can thousands of elders be free from accusation when so many people hate them that if murder was legal, we'll get in line and fire until my pistol melted in my hands? I'm going to find that article in some WT in the 1950's where the writer was actually bemoaning the fact that the WT couldn't kill the rest of the world using whatever weapons they chose because they were all guilty of idolatry. If they can't wait to pull the trigger or at least now , wait for God to do it, why are WE crazy when WE want to shoot the whole bunch of them?
To Anitar: Another good point about the money defending him. I wonder how many worldly people who donate a few bucks for the ragazines (Oh, I'm SO sorry, I meant toilet paper cutup magazines) would like knowing that their money will help keep a pedophile free and ready to do it again?? As far as only a JW can be trusted, I've been cheated more by JW's (usually elders) than all the worldly repairmen put together. It's a shame for the WT when my advice, when looking for a person in the yellow pages, is to ask "are you a JW?" and if he eagerly says yes, were you one?, I say I never hire or work with JW's, they cheat me all the time. How would Jesus like this?
We are thousands on this forum. Doesn't anyone know a newspaper writer who would like this story. They love to dig up the dirt on scumbags like this. Can't we get the media involved more deeply?
My best to all.
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If this doesn't scream mind control, nothing will
by restrangled inthis poem was written by a 15 year old jw to encourage one of my younger relatives to get back to the kh.
to get to the meeting ahead of time.
to make our way to the counter to get in line .
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mcsemike
I don't know if it's any good, but I wrote something in Word. It won't let me copy and paste it into this reply box. Can someone please help me? Thanks.
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Wikipedia being abused by Jehovahs Witnesses
by Simon ini had a look at the wikipedia entry for jehovahs witnesses yesterday and noticed that it wasn't as comprehensive as it once was.. most links to non-pro-jw sites have gone as is anything truly critical or exposing of their beliefs and practices.. last night i added a link to this site to the "other sources" section.
this morning it is gone.. i wonder whether this is some private zealot who has decided to do it or an organised campaign?.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/jehovah%27s_witnesses.
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mcsemike
JW's are NOT supposed to be on Wikipedia for starters. The WT has made it plain that the Internet is off limits to JW's except for the official WT site. I'm not an expert about Wikipedia. But I am a Microsoft systems engineer. If you WT lurkers don't keep your big noses out of what doesn't concern you, I will make sure the info is posted on other sites and linked back to Wiki. I also have the knowledge of how to send you files that will destroy your pc's. I can also complain to Wiki. It's true that it is supposed to be a FAIR picture of the WT. If I looked up Hitler or Jim Jones, I'd hardly expect to find glowing tributes to either of them. You WT clowns have to expect your fair share of criticism. After all, you are a child-raping cult and you WILL be exposed. No Jehovah God is going to save you.
I suggest you practice saying "do you want fries with that" instead of trying to stamp out everyone who disagrees with your precious perverted religion. If you continue to sue ex-JW's who tell the truth, some of you are going to get hurt. (Before everyone brands me as a Mafia killer, I'm referring to financial, social, and psychological damage. You know, the kind you caused the rape victims you lie and deny.)
Wikipedia is a community affair. You don't own it. Whoever is going through the material taking out the "real truth" had better stop right now while you still are able to. My daughter was raped and my family destroyed. I'm going to have my revenge if it takes 30 years and 2 million dollars, all of which I will have to work with. I am warning you for the last time. Stop your BS, stop hurting people, apologize in PUBLIC, make restitution, or you will die. That's what the Bible says happens to liars. Don't make it more painful by getting me involved. You'll just go broke first and go to jail before you die. "No matter how fast you run, you'll only die tired."
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What do you think the Society's future holds?
by KW13 ini get the feeling the society is gonna suffer a huge loss of number, with people who are in getting old, those 'raised' in the so called truth leaving and less and less interested ones because more people are aware.. .
it has its ups and downs but it seems the ups aren't as big as they used to, some never recovered from 1975 and others from the 1995 generation thingy.. your thoughts?.
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mcsemike
From what I've seen in Psych, there are strong arguments for a fast decline once the child abuse thing really hits the fan, a moderate decline over the years, or as some have said, almost no decline because of the suckers. The WT, I have to admit, seems to be the exception to the rule. I sometimes think they live a charmed life. Very few other religions could even have gotten this far after 125 years of the BS that they have put out.
I think the USA numbers will decline, and soon. I know many people are furious with what they are learning on the Internet, and this country has all the info at its disposal that it needs. The baby boomer generation, where many of the young "1975 or bust" JW's came from, are now approaching their 60's and have no pensions or good jobs. I am in the lead when it comes to this. I'm 56 and now looking to start a new career in psych, network engineering, teaching music, or some business. I should be retiring. Most of my neighbors here in FL that are my age have huge pensions and are DONE working. Some are 50, some are 90. They ALL have LOTS of money. I live with a family member right on the river near enough to the Space Center to see the rockets go up from our dock. Yet I have to find work.
The JW's come in our development once or twice a year. Maybe one house takes a magazine to be polite. I told the whole association (25 homes) what happened to my child and they were disgusted. The JW's won't ever place another magazine in here again. So the word is getting out. One person at a time, but it's getting out there.
I truly believe that it will take a dramatic national event to severely hurt them. Someone MUST get on TV with a book, his/her story, or something. I wouldn't recommend this, but even if some poor teenager who had been molested and DF'd for "allowing" it, and this happens by the way, were to climb the Brooklyn Bridge and threaten to jump and keep NYC in the news and on TV for an entire day, THAT might attract some attention. And if they jumped, it would attract more. After all, there have been suicides due to molestation. But they don't happen in a dramatic way and they are not seen by millions.
In Florida, they publish for free, a newspaper listing the child molesters that are caught each month. They include their picture, address, description, age, where they live and work, and what exactly they did to the child. There are many guns down here and thousands carry. So you can put 2 and 2 together and see what might happen on occasion. This also makes the news, but is not the answer.
Aside from a dynamite book and its author getting on Oprah, I think the best way is for all of us to email our friends, tell our neighbors, call the local newspaper people, wear Silent Lamb pins, and go door to door (after the JW's have been through, telling the householder not to read that book and why you just visited them). If door to door works for the WT, it should work for us. A grassroots movement would be very effective, I believe. It's cheap, easy, and relentless. The WT can't stop it. If you see JW's go down your street, wait ten minutes and visit the same houses. Chances are, the people know you better since you live there and wouldn't most people prefer to see you visit and help them dispose of the magazines while telling them of the child abuse and lies, than have the JW's make a return visit and annoy them further? In any case, we can all only hope and do our best.
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C.O. is in town, the harassment begins...
by PeachRose ini haven't been to meetings in a long time (trying to fade).
ever so often i do run into a witness or 2 who are friendly, but reserved (after all i am considered in active).
anyway, my hubby & i are currently working on a letter to send to the society that will more then likely get us df'd or disassociated (same thing i guess).
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mcsemike
Typical WT propaganda. Now if they were fair, the section on the JW's would have a pyramid, Russell having the bumps on his head "read" by an expert, Rutherford with a mug of beer with whiskey shots in his hand, Franz smoking funny stuff to dream up all the "types" and "antitypes", and several mugshots of all the JW's who have been arrested for raping children. Honestly now, aren't I being fair?? But NOOOOO, all the OTHER faiths are shown as silly, scary, false, etc. Why not the WT?? How about JW's running from aluminum cookware, running from doctors with smallpox vaccinations for their children, JW's taking the polio vaccines and throwing them in the garbage, and all the other humorous things we all could think of. I'd pay good money to see the WT play fair just ONCE in their lives.
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C.O. is in town, the harassment begins...
by PeachRose ini haven't been to meetings in a long time (trying to fade).
ever so often i do run into a witness or 2 who are friendly, but reserved (after all i am considered in active).
anyway, my hubby & i are currently working on a letter to send to the society that will more then likely get us df'd or disassociated (same thing i guess).
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mcsemike
Anitar: Thanks for the kind thoughts. I have my good days and bad days. I mostly want the WT destroyed so they can't hurt more people, especially the children.
There is a quote that says something like: "The more a person tries to prove something to you, the more he isn't sure it's true himself, therefore he desperately is trying to get YOU to believe it so that HE is reassured that it's right." Well, something like that. I hope I made the point. I really think they know it's all garbage, a pipe dream. Pipe dream?? The origin of that expression, according to some historians, is OPIUM pipes. People so out of it, whatever they thought about or dreamed about was just a fantasy. When you look at the WT's beliefs with that analogy in mind, it kind of changes things, doesn't it?
Good luck to all who need it. I hope some of these suggestions help those in the future who feel trapped.
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C.O. is in town, the harassment begins...
by PeachRose ini haven't been to meetings in a long time (trying to fade).
ever so often i do run into a witness or 2 who are friendly, but reserved (after all i am considered in active).
anyway, my hubby & i are currently working on a letter to send to the society that will more then likely get us df'd or disassociated (same thing i guess).
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mcsemike
Anitar: Yes, there is too much cloak and dagger garbage in the WT. Several times I've been called by an elder or MS, even when I was still active, who wanted to ask about another JW. Unknown to me, many times a second brother was listening in on an extension. That is patently immoral, not to mention illegal in most states. Here the elders scream if you try to record or tape a judicial committee meeting and post it on the Internet (there are some, do a Google to find them, they actually threatened the soon to be DF'd brother for saying he might be doing it as they spoke), yet they want total control and intrude into your life by trying to get you to say something and then the second elder is listening and then they've got you. But let a 13 year old girl, along with a few others, all claim that the same elder molested them, and they say "oh no, we need 2 witnesses" or "do you have pictures or proof?". What a bunch of sickos.
I know this is immature, but sometimes people need to be put in their place. Money isn't always satisfying, especially if you have enough, so lawsuits don't feel as good as other methods. Just once, I'd like to punch an elder in the nose in FRONT of the congregation for doing something obnoxious, like how they treat abuse victims. Just the satisfaction of giving him a bloody nose and humiliating him by laying him out cold on the ground. I know so many elders who need some "stuffing" and "hot air" let out of them. Again, I regret my feeling this way, but I was bullied much of my life and I always wished to see the bully get his. To be honest, it was one of the reasons I joined this cult. All the types of people who picked on the "little guy" were going to die. All the rich, the wise guys, the arrogant, etc. After I got my degree, I learned to analyze the JW's I knew. I discovered that most joined for that reason. I also learned that most men joined because someday they hoped to be important by making elder. Where else can a HS graduate, who is more often than not a loser and jerk, become important, carry a nice leather briefcase, play "executive" at each elder's meeting, and have dozens of people (and ALL women) taking orders from him, and often worshipping his every word?? Only in the JW's. In the real world, this man would be supersizing French fries, not his own ego or self-importance.
I know some straying off the main point occurs in these threads, and I am no exception. I was severely clueless most of my life as to WHY people did what they did. I had no knowledge of body language, never knew if someone was upset with me (my wife told me things bothered her for TWENTY YEARS yet I never knew it, yet is that all MY fault?) and in college, didn't know that certain women liked me and I should have been asking them out. When I got the degree, I learned mostly how ignorant I was about human nature, then learned to try to fill in the gaps. I wanted to help anyone here with what I was told by professors. MOST of life occurs on a psychological level or plain. The key to understanding life, and especially RELIGION, is understanding PEOPLE and not what they do, but WHY. This concept is far more important than most people realized. Terry W., whose music I adore (and I've been in touch with him), has written many good pieces about this. So has Randy and others. The key to finding what makes JW's, and especially elders, "tick" is rooted in psychology, not the Elder's Handbook or any WT article. I encourage everyone to read Terry's piece on the main page of Freeminds. It is worth the time. (No, I get no money or royalties. LOL) It will just save many people much time and effort.
JW's, as a rule, are not educated. Nor are they particularly insightful. Many are intelligent, kind, have deep emotions and imaginations. Most of us who were JW's felt we did, isn't that true? But without an unbiased analysis of our personalities, and we won't get that while being JW's (who's going to do it or know how?), we can't grow or recognize the WHYS that occurred in OUR lives when we were JW's. I have had much success in "reading" JW's after I learned why I had become one. I hope this is of value to some people. Again, I don't blame individual JW's, per se, at least not the rank and file. They are blind, ignorant, mean well, and usually don't even know what they are doing. Didn't Jesus, while dying, ask that this type be forgiven "for they know not what they do"? (Nor why?) It's the GB and higher-ups that I blame. The ones who really know the past history, the ones who gloat when they pass rules that hurt those who disagree with them. Rutherford, for instance. An obnoxious drunk who stole his position and bullied everyone who disagreed with him. His "bodyguards" carried canes, almost daring anyone to start something. Like a few canes would stop a mob with guns, right. Can you imagine Rutherford deciding that you WILL receive a shepherding call and showing up with his goons? I truly think I'd need my firearms there, I'm sorry. Whoever is worried about the elders dropping in on you, at least you are safe from harm. The worst that they will do is slam your gate if you tell them to go away.
How many of us REALLY studied ALL the religions AND the WT's past history?? Come on, REALLY? I have the actual Studies in the Scriptures by Russell. I KNOW what they taught. The WT published ONE book years ago that skimmed several religions, pointing out their faults. (I can't remember the name.) Of course we all know it was dishonestly slanted from their point of view. And here is my point. The same pattern of sucking up to the public with kindness, while all the time lying. Then AFTER you join, the iron gate slams shut and you are stuck. Just like my distant cousins of Sicilian origin. You don't retire, they retire YOU, permanently. There was a joke page on the internet once comparing the Pope to the WT Society. There was also one comparing Rutherford to Al Capone. They were funny as hell. But what was more disturbing was the fact that they were true.
Well, I didn't mean to write a book. I just think it's sad that this emotional damage affects so many people. No one should be afraid in her own house. It doesn't say very much for Jesus when his "true followers" act this way. Of course, Jesus doesn't approve, so it's the WT that looks bad. I hope someday to get them all at one shot. Then this nightmare will be over for us and maybe the world can move on. My best to all. Oh, if you REALLY don't want a surprise visit, borrow a pitbull and chain it to the gate.