MDS

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  9

  God's Kingdom-Can Its Coming Be Pre-Announced?

  by MDS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the kingdom of god -- is it pre-announced with outstanding, observable events going before its coming?

  jesus said the following,.

  at luke 17:20, 21 we read:.

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  MDS

  I "second the motion." Meeting adjourned.

  MDS
• 
  9

  God's Kingdom-Can Its Coming Be Pre-Announced?

  by MDS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the kingdom of god -- is it pre-announced with outstanding, observable events going before its coming?

  jesus said the following,.

  at luke 17:20, 21 we read:.

  1. 
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• 

  MDS

  Ah Hah:

  ...Other than believing,

  what exactly is it that you would have them do about it?...

  "Other than Believing", "other than Believing," ... other than...

  hmmm....

  My friend, BELIEVING, putting complete Faith, in the "message," the "report," the "good news," is EVERYTHING... Yes, "Believing" or "expressing Faith," is everything. There is no "other than," because true "faith," also is accompanied with "works," too. So the man of God, is then, complete, as "love", hope and Faith, together conquers all...including Satan himself and this world. -- 1 Corinthians 13:13

  It is just as Isaiah 53:1 says:

  "Who has put faith in the THING HEARD

  [literally the "Report" see fnt large print NWT Ref Bible] by us?..." -- See Also John 12:38, Romans 10:16

  Please note, "Ah Hah," yes... To NOT "BELIEVE", or to, "DISBELEIVE", to lack FAITH, in God's Message is considered by Jehovah God, an OUT RIGHT ACT OF DISOBEDIENCE TO HIM...
  "disobedience," ...like Adam and Eve...Satan.

  Or, did you not know this?

  Listen carefully...

  "Nevertheless, they did not all OBEY THE GOOD NEWS. For Isaiah says: Jehovah, who put faith in the "thing heard" [literally "Report"] from us?...But as respects Israel he says: "All day long I have spread out my hands toward a people that is DISOBEDIENT and TALKS BACK." -- See Romans 10:16; 21

  Sound familiar...?

  It is an easy thing to do... that is to doubt the "message" from Jehovah God, like Priest Zechariah did, when he was told, in his old age, he and his wife would produce a son, the one who became known as "John, the baptizer." For doubting, he was rendered "mute" until after the child was born..."because" as the angel said, "you did not BELIEVE MY WORDS, which will be fulfilled in their appointed time." -- Luke 1:20

  Ah Hah,

  ITS A SIN to disbelieve, to lack faith, to NOT believe the "message", the "Report", the "thing heard," the Word of God...God's Message, the "Good News."
  "...

  ...What is the next step? (please phrase your answer in one sentence of your own words, if you can)

  Okay...WTS/GB receives the "mark of the beast" in total compromise when the "Great War" of Daniel 10:1 DOES NOT LEAD TO ARMAGEDDON as predicted in publications, much to their chagrin, shock and horror, leaving those who are now witnesses of their unique "fall" from status as "prophets," now are suddenly, and surprisingly, unwilling to receive the "mark", therefore, INSTEAD OF TOTAL DESTRUCTION LIKE THE WTS, must now receive as Discipline from God, 42 months of trampling upon themselves (by political nations, "beast"), as decimated nation, the Jehovah's Witnesses, worldwide, a DISOBEDIENT PEOPLE clearly revealed for all to see, with only the "humble" among them expected to SURVIVE THE UNPRECENDENTED ORDEAL, just as the "Report" has been speaking of for years and years, and yes, just as, Zephaniah 3:11, 12 says:

  "...In that day you [Israel] will not be ashamed because of all your dealings with which you transgressed against me, for then I shall remove from the midst of you your haughtily exultant ones; and YOU WILL NEVER AGAIN BE HAUGHTY IN MY HOLY MOUNTAIN...and I shall certainly let remain in the midst of you a people HUMBLE AND LOWLY, and they will actually take refuge in the name of Jehovah." -- Zephaniah 3:11, 12[/b]

  One sentence...

  MDS

  Edited by - MDS on 18 November 2000 16:40:5
• 
  9

  God's Kingdom-Can Its Coming Be Pre-Announced?

  by MDS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the kingdom of god -- is it pre-announced with outstanding, observable events going before its coming?

  jesus said the following,.

  at luke 17:20, 21 we read:.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MDS

  Frenchy:

  You mentioned on the "reflections" thread on the main forum, that you didn't want me to go away mad....but you didn't want me to "preach" to you, either.

  Since you have "invited" me to speak on my behalf, then I will speak, but only on this "Bible Research Forum." You and your "friends," can have your "fun", philosophying, theorizing (since not a one of you, have even the fainted "clue" as to what's really going on and the Biblical relevance involved here), over on the main forum and I won't spoil your fun there.

  But, I have decided to make a comment to you about your above statement, since such a statement is completely and clearly incorrect and completely misinformed.

  Frenchy, ask yourself: Is it really wrong for someone to "preach" to "Israel," that's God's Name People, Jehovah's Witnesses? Is that so wrong? -- Romans 10th chapter.

  Jehovah's Witnesses did it to every one of their "friends," neighbors, and associates, day in and day out, but, now, ... no one can "preach" to us?... is that right?

  How, totally hypocritical!

  This cannot be denied...As in the past, isn't it true, that "Israel," Jehovah's witnesses, are in need, in dire need of some serious "preaching," to itself, as we recall, given the present state of spiritual affairs handed JWs, under the WTS and GB directions for the past few years. Really, they are "sheep" that have been "skinned and thrown about...", as in Jesus'...the same as in his day. -- Matt. 9:36

  But you don't want to hear any "preaching," at all, is that right, Frenchy?

  That is also, the way it was, in Jesus' day too...at least by those official opposers of Jesus, the Pharisees, and religious leaders of his day.

  As you recall, I'm sure, 2 Tim. 4:2 shows the "Word of God," would and should be "preached," in "favorable and troublesome season." And nothing will stop this, because this is God's doing.

  Unbeknowst to you, and many others, still, this "preaching" message, the "Report," will be done, carried out, for a 7 year period to "Israel," a special "invitation" given to Israel,

  BEFORE

  Jehovah appropriately DECIDES to give The "Message," The "Report," the "Good News" to the Gentiles, the "nations," appreciative individuals who are clearly more worthy recipients and more responsive, than proud, stubborn, presumptuous "Israel" of our time, Jehovah's Witnesses of our day. These "Gentiles," will number some 200 million strong, in fulfillment of Matt. 24:14, and Mark 13;10.

  Now for the next comment you made about me.

  Leading question designed to illicit a reply from some poor unsuspecting sucker that will open the way for the questioner to give his answer which is in fact the whole object of this little farce. MDS is not asking for an opinion to which he will give due consideration but is merely seeking an opening to deliver his ‘report’ message. This is an old and familiar WTS tactic that is used effectively in the field service.

  My friend, you IMPUTE bad motive to me. Do you have such "proof"?

  Well, still anyway, so far no one has "replied" to the question... I wonder why?

  Could it be, they are completely "ignorant," just as yourself, on just how to understand such a delicate, yet precious spiritual "truth"?

  For your information, I asked the same question on 4 different boards, "Jerusalem 2," "Eden2Outpost," H2O, and here...and no one could provide the answer.

  How about "answering" the question yourself...then, since it is sooo simple to you?

  And about the message I speak of, "The Report," the message is free...I speak of it freely to you and others on this board. The "message" is free.

  You say I'm trying to sell a book. Yes, we do have a book...written by us. But no where, do you see me speaking about or myself, directing, selling, or trying to make anyone buy a book...soliciting money and so on. No, I do not need to "sell" anything...personally speaking. Whether you decide to "purchase" any thing is your personal choice...be it book, magazine, and so on. No one trying to "twist your arm", in any way. If you don't want the book, then guess what, don't buy it.

  But, you seem quite eager, to make sure that no one else "listens," and make up their own minds.

  But my advise is for you to "buy," something...

  "eyesalve, that you may rub in your eyes, so that you can see again." -- Revelation 3:18

  That's what you should "buy."

  It is you, who and your companions on this board, who are in "need" of buying something, anything, to help unravel, untangle this "mess" you are in, courtesy of the WTS/GB. Now, Jehovah must provide an "answer" -- to put things "straight," as they should be. -- 2 Tim. 3:16

  But, do we have the faith...that's the question.

  So, at present, You are the one, perplexed with "questions," "wonderings," and the sort.

  God will provide...but will you "listen," or continue to look for every opportunity to, deride, chide, and RIDICULE...I wonder.

  MDS
• 
  92

  Reflections

  by Frenchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im starting a new thread because its time i left the bergman discussion.

  i would like to address some comments made by ahhah, however, comments which have given me reason to look deep into myself.. even then, i wonder how objective a person could ever be after having had part of their life taken from them by a cult association.

  on the other hand, who else (other than an ex-jw) would ever care enough to work as tirelessly as he seems to have in attempting to document the potential harm of this religion (biased as it may be).

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  MDS

  Goodbye to all here.

  According to popular demand, I shall not post here ever again...according to your wishes.

  Take Care,

  MDS
• 
  92

  Reflections

  by Frenchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im starting a new thread because its time i left the bergman discussion.

  i would like to address some comments made by ahhah, however, comments which have given me reason to look deep into myself.. even then, i wonder how objective a person could ever be after having had part of their life taken from them by a cult association.

  on the other hand, who else (other than an ex-jw) would ever care enough to work as tirelessly as he seems to have in attempting to document the potential harm of this religion (biased as it may be).

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  MDS

  Ah Hah:

  You asked "why do I post here, on this forum."

  Do I have "freedom" to post here...do I? Is this not, a non-moderated board, we are all posting on. I have every much "right" to post here, as anyone else...or did you not know that?

  But posting here, is no big deal to me...I actually post "occasionally" on 4 forums to date, "Jerusalem2 Outpost," "Eden2 Outpost," H2O, and this one.

  I post when I have a question I wish to entertain comments on, and also when I think someone is sincere in their "search" for truth. When I think they "may" be worth, the time and trouble, ... only then.

  Then, I will make an attempt to help. I use the Bible as my principle "instrument" to help.

  But I think you are after something more... Could it be my identity... who do I claim to be?

  Really, I make no secret of whom I claim to be,

  Isaiah 49:1-4; 50:6,7 eloquently speaks of a "mystery" Servant To Israel, whoms the nation of "Israel" loves to "SPIT UPON," and "DETEST" ... who wishes to make him "ASHAMED" of his God-Given Assignment.

  "Listen to me, O you islands, and pay attention, you national groups far away. Jehovah himself has called even me from the belly. From the inward parts of my mother he has made mention of my name. And he proceeded to make my mouth like a sharp sword. In the shadow of his hand he has hidden me. And he gradually made me a polished arrow. He concealed me in his own quiver. And he went on to say to me: "You are my servant, O Israel, you the one in whom I shall show my beauty."

  "But as for me, I said: It is FOR NOTHING that I have toiled. For UNREALITY and VANITY I have USED UP MY OWN POWER...

  "

  Who is this person? Is this Jesus?

  Who do you think the Holy Scriptures speaks of, in these prophetic verses -- this "mystery" "Israel," this "Mystery Servant," "Ah Hah"?

  Jesus or someone else... who do you say?

  The verses continue, Isaiah 50:6. 7,

  "The Sovereign Lord Jehovah himself has opened my ear, and I, for my part, was not rebellious. I did not turn in the opposite direction. My back I gave to the strikers, and my cheeks to those plucking off the hair. My face I did not CONCEAL FROM HUMILIATING THINGS AND SPIT."

  "Ah Hah," Who do you think the Bible is speaking of here in the above verses, in prophecy?

  Who is this person, that Jehovah God has "hidden,", "concealed" "in his quiver."... The one that Jehovah God has indeed, "shown his BEAUTY." The one that Israel loves to "spit" upon? Even in our day?

  Who is he? Who was he? Maybe, Jesus?????

  Whom? Maybe you do not know.

  I'll tell you something special, although your words are motivated, and fomented in your mouth in sheer hatred...

  Revelation 10:7 still says:

  "but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he about to blow his trumpet, the SACRED SECRET OF GOD according to the good news which he declared to his own slaves THE PROPHETS is indeed brought to a finish."

  The "answers" you all seek, can only be found in the "prophets," the "slaves of God." The "prophets," like Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah... the "prophets," ... the prophetic books, the prophetic books contained ALL OF THE ANSWERS you seek on this forum.

  That I will tell you ahead of time...whether you believe, or choose NOT TO BELIEVE... the "answers" are there.

  But meanwhile, thru out my posting here, you will notice liberal usage of the Bible, Scriptures, God's Word.

  To those who have "ears," let them "listen." The words of Jesus, as you recall, and yes, my sentiments too.

  I will await you reply, if you wish to comment.

  TO: CARMEL/CANDYMAN and Other Persons of Interest:

  If it turns out that you are the ONLY one (and maybe someone later on, who lurks here) proves to be the Only one that wants to hear what I am about to say...then I will give you an e-mail address that you can write to, where you can get the details, PRIVATELY:

  [email protected]

  MDS
• 
  92

  Reflections

  by Frenchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im starting a new thread because its time i left the bergman discussion.

  i would like to address some comments made by ahhah, however, comments which have given me reason to look deep into myself.. even then, i wonder how objective a person could ever be after having had part of their life taken from them by a cult association.

  on the other hand, who else (other than an ex-jw) would ever care enough to work as tirelessly as he seems to have in attempting to document the potential harm of this religion (biased as it may be).

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  MDS

  Hi Carmel/Candyman:

  Thanks...

  But...Let's wait and see what "Frenchy" has to say...

  ...Already the "enemies" of truth have begun to "rear their ugly heads in annoyance," some, on this board, even now,

  Some are "readying themselves" to RESIST, just as Satan has inspired them to do...The chief "Resister" of God and Truth.

  However,

  1 John 4:1 gives us the "formula" for testing out "truth," and the "inspired expression, the inspired, utterance from God":

  "Beloved ones, do not believe EVERY inspired expression, but TEST THE INSPIRED EXPRESSIONS TO SEE whether they originate with God..."

  "Test" it... to see whether it comes from God... yes, "test" it ... by using the same tool first century christians had...the ones John spoke of above. We must conduct the "test" using the same tool they had ... the Holy Scriptures themselves. Yes, we must use it, to conduct your "Test," ... not some "man's opinion or ideas."

  After that, after the "test", using the Bible, then, and only then, make your "personal" determination of the matter. We must not let "others" decide for us, personally. We must make our own decisions on what is "truth." Our "personal" decision.

  Remember, Satan is The "resister" to the "truth." He hates it, and he did not "stand fast in it," because "truth is not in him," ... the same way, it is not in some of us on this board, today, as we speak. The "truth" is NOT in ALL OF US, so the Bible says. All of us, do not "love truth," as we should. We must be watchful of these ones. -- John 8:44

  Thanks, Carmel/Candyman, ... I appreciate your comments.

  But now, we must wait for "Frenchy's" comments.

  MDS

  Edited by - MDS on 5 November 2000 15:32:38
• 
  92

  Reflections

  by Frenchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im starting a new thread because its time i left the bergman discussion.

  i would like to address some comments made by ahhah, however, comments which have given me reason to look deep into myself.. even then, i wonder how objective a person could ever be after having had part of their life taken from them by a cult association.

  on the other hand, who else (other than an ex-jw) would ever care enough to work as tirelessly as he seems to have in attempting to document the potential harm of this religion (biased as it may be).

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• 

  MDS

  Hi Frenchy:

  Please, those of you who have hesitated for whatever reason, post your views and comments on this thread..."

  Okay...I'll do just that.

  Whatever can be said about the WTS one will have to admit that it is unlike anything else he has experienced. Do they have ‘the truth’ and have just MISMANAGED IT?

  Why were the promises so real to us? Why do some of us still long for those things once hoped for? Is there someone else out there that has the truth? Will there ever be? .... comments?...

  Many times I've observed many comments, and things that you have stated, that you really, really, want the truth. I am beginning to believe this too.

  I usually, will not post to particular individuals...except on rare occasions...

  ...but for some reason, your name keeps popping up... it seems you are still out there searching, talking about prayers, I remember, one time, I remember, "Why does God NOT answer our prayers," and so on.

  Now, you are giving the "organization" another look, so to speak, you want to know, just what happened up there, what did those people have up at the kingdom hall, that was so hard to walk away from, you wonder.

  Well, Frenchy, in all of your searching, which we know to be a arduous journey in itself, for everyone who really, wants the Truth, the real truth of anything,

  Well... just maybe, just maybe, perhaps, you have stumbled on something greater than even you have imagined...the "real" truth of the matter about the WTS and Jehovah's Witnesses. The "Real Truth" of Life itself!!!

  The "Real Truth" that the whole world wants to know, and will come to know, in God's due time... the "Real Truth," about our Creator, and what He is going to do, about the "situation" you mentioned above.

  You see, only those who truly "grope" for God, will find Him. We are at INITIAL STAGE of the most magnificient developments that are surely destined to happen before mankind, ever...

  ...these things we call the "sacred secrets" of God. His "secret" matters, His "confidential matters." (Amos 3:7)

  You have said above...

  "...Maybe they [WTS/JWs] have MISMANAGED the Truth...and that's why it is sooooo hard to walk away from those people..."

  In other words, they really, did have "SOMETHING," that's something, but not ALL OF THE TRUTH, not the whole story, not the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of God, not all of that, but they did have SOMETHING!

  Like Paul said, the Jews of Jesus' day, like the Pharisees (and Sadducees/nation of Israel) as mentioned at Romans 2:20, only had, the "framework of the knowledge of the truth," that's the "framework," [or form, outline, outerstructure] of the Knowledge of the truth"... that's all they had... the "framework" / outline, of the "knowledge of the truth."

  And as we know, the "framework" of anything, say, the "framework" of a house going up for construction, IS NOT, and I repeat, IS NOT THE COMPLETED STRUCTURE. They did not ALL of the "Truth," all of the facts to COMPLETE the struture, the spiritual temple, that God wanted to be built. The Messiah, would have the finishing plans, but would the Pharisees, humbly, wait, admit that they did not have ALL OF THE ANSWERS...but the messiah would, but his "answers" were NOT ACCEPTABLE TO THEM...they rejected his "completion" instructions, in the end. He was not what they wanted.

  But, as you have said above, you are exactly right... they had "some" truth, but they "mismanaged" it. Just like the Pharisees, and religious leaders of Jesus' day, had "some" truth, but again, "mismanaged it," as you say. You are exactly Right!

  They have only a "framework", or sketchy "outline" of truth,in their possession, before Jesus came. They tried to complete the spiritual structure of God, BEFORE the messiah came. They established their own "form of righteousness," apart from God and His much needed additional instructions. The "wineskins" had been stretched to the limit, by their own doing... The leaders "ran ahead of Jehovah." Just like the WTS/GB has done today. -- See Roman 10:2, 3.

  So French, God has already blessed you, with the above insights...You have arrived at this conclusion, the correct conclusion, possibly because you have sought to "find God," you have been willing to "grope" for Him. Yes, as He says, all must, before they can indeed, "FIND GOD." -- Acts 17:27

  But, as you have done, One must "grope" for Him, as Acts 17:27 clearly says:

  "For them to seek God, if they might GROPE for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us."

  The word, "grope" is unique. It is only used when we think of COMPLETE DARKNESS.

  We are in "darkness" .... "complete darkness", where there is NO LIGHT...NO LIGHT at all... we are stumbling into the back room of our house, we reach for the light switch, now where is it, we must "grope" for it, stumble all thru out the dark room, to find another lamp that works, knocking over books, bumping into the tv/radio, making a whole lot of noise, banging our big toe, against the edge of the bed, man that hurts!..but we are "groping" for something, a light.

  Groping For God...we "grope" when we are totally helpless, totally in darkness, spiritually speaking... and we finally recognize this fact, we sense it, we know it...we "grope" for God, when man has completely failed us...like the WTS, the organization, we man cannot help us any more, in a sense, we must find God know, the real truth now.

  We recognize that we are in total darkness...today, spiritually speaking... That's why you are asking these, very hard hitting, pertinent questions, religion, God, prayer and so on.... yes where is God?

  You are "groping" for God, you are sincerely, and earnestly delving into the type of thoughts, and periods of meditation that really, makes for a RETHINKING, a double-take, of the whole matter. You are making sure, so you rethink, about the organization we have come to know as claiming to worship God uniquely, the one that claims it uniquely to recognize His Name, just and ancient Israel did. They claim to be a "People For His Name." But, they clearly do not measure up. You know this to be a fact...and you are right! Just like the nation of Israel during Jesus' day. They didn't measure up, when Jesus came to inspect... The Pharisees and religious leaders had the nation, worshiping them, instead! Man made doctrines, traditions, and all. -- See Matt. 15: 8,9.

  Matthew 15:12,

  astonishingly, shows the disciples of Jesus COUNSELING him, yes instructing the "master" teacher, Jesus himself that what he is saying, his harsh denounciations against the Pharisees and religious leaders of their day, is actually "stumbling the Pharisees," yes, "stumbling" them, the ones who were the ROOT CAUSE of all of the suffering and injustices, the nation had endured, all up until that time!

  Imagine that!

  ... the disciples still, defending the Pharisees, even when they were with Jesus. To the disciples of Jesus, the Pharisees , looked royal, righteous, worthy of much respect, much like the JWs look upon the GB/WTS, headquarters staff. But they are really, DISGUSTING to God, just as the Pharisees were. Jehovah holds the same view of the wicked WTS who has a strangle hold on the stupified brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses. -- See Luke 16:14, 15.

  So thus, they were completely repulsive to Jesus, but completely ACCEPTABLE to the "sheep" that were "skinned and thrown about," yes, the disciples of Jesus, who continued to warn Jesus about speaking against the religious leaders, who had provided soooo much for the nation, spiritually.

  We remember such statements, as

  "...Oh, look at the stones, what sort of stones, on the temple structure... -- See Mark 13:1.

  In gist, Jesus,... have you ever seen anything like this?...isn't this just wonderful!

  What is going on here, even at the very end of Jesus' ministry...they struggled with this "situation," of facing up to the Pharisees, the real truth, the sure aftermath, that Jesus spoke of, that was sure to come? Their "ignorance," could not stop the Will of God, in this matter..."no stone shall be left upon a stone..." God's Will. -- Matt. 24:2

  Back to today, Frenchy,...

  Isn't it true, sometimes, when we really hear the "truth," of the matter, it becomes something that we DO NOT WANT TO HEAR...isn't that true. Now, I don't doubt your sincerity in wanting to really, really, know God's thoughts on the WTS and Jehovah's Witnesses, at all... I see that you are even "groping" for it...

  But, do you really want the truth...

  Kind of like Jack Nicholson's words in that famous movie... "You Can't Handle the Truth..." ... Can you, Frenchy? ... The Real "Truth." It not like ANYTHING YOU HAVE EVER HEARD BEFORE!!!

  I promise you that!

  You see, in a matter of 5 minutes, of less...yes, someone can tell you the "real truth" ... quickly, concisely, it could be presented to you ...someone could give you the entire picture...

  Remember, Jehovah God is consistent... He provided for His people in the past, and ... He is still God, no less powerful than before... the same Jehovah...and He will provide once again...

  In fact, He is ALREADY PROVIDING, answering the questions you have posed, and many, many other questions, that you have not even thought of yet.

  The truth, is really available for God's People Today who are really "groping" for it. Those that really, really, want to know.

  But remember, when you hear it... it may not be what you WANT TO HEAR... it may be repulsive to you... you may want to puke, and reject the "message" of truth... it may sound very, FOREIGN to your ears...

  But the answers are there, right there in the Bible, ALL OF THE ANSWERS too.

  Martini makes the following observation of modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses who are still "loyal" to the organization...

  "...The problem I have is that they appear quite contented. Most are not your model "WT drone" as they once were, but they hold firmly to the belief that they are serving Jehovah and that their love for him is what they cherish most in life. Basically they feel this Organization keeps them focused on their dedication to live not for self but for GOD. Many could find fault with this position, all I know is these people do appear to be doing something for God, I honestly cannot say so much for myself anymore."

  This statement is very accurate.

  But, we must say, this then, reveals a very, serious problem with the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, and also, how they must endure a very serious ENCOUNTER with the Creator, the Most High. They have "learned" now, how to accept outright wickedness, from the hands of the WTS. They have "accepted" it. They have "learned" how to "live with it." The same way the disciples had "learned" to just, accept it.

  Frenchy, I will just say this, from God's prospective, if we thought the "Golden Calf" incident displayed anything about the character of God Almighty, and His great disdain, distaste, for idolatry, ... then, let's just say, Jehovah is going to do something, completely UNHEARD of before, so much so, it literally, will make the "ears tingle." -- See 1 Samuel 3:11; 2 Kings 21:12; Jer. 19:3

  The "ears tingle" just to hear it, to come to know what Jehovah God is going to do about this "situation" you are perplexed with. He does plan to handle it, like never before. He will clearly demonstrate to all, just what it means to be ALMIGHTY, ALL-KNOWING, with no one to check His Hand. (And I don't mean total destruction of the human population either...I'm not saying that either...that wouldn't be "tingling" to the ears, but frightening, terrifying.).

  No, but, I'm speaking of a great "miracle." .... A GREAT, GREAT, GREAT Miracle, a "never-done-before-miracle" ... a One time experience that will never be repeated....something that every body on the face of this earth will see too... :-)

  The Hand of Jehovah, finally.

  Yes, Jehovah God is going to get EVERYONE's attention, with this great, stupendous "act." This "act" will hold much meaning for yourself, and all peoples worldwide, after it has been accomplished, and people are able to "digest" just what has happened, God's "Act". This singular "act" of God. Earthwide unity will come from this earthwide "Act" of God.

  What is this "Great Act" of God?

  Well.... believe it or not, it has to do with "Palm Trees", and how they are dispicted thru out the scriptures...thru out the Bible itself... from the Tabernacle of Booths celebrations, instituted under the Mosiac Law, right down to the crowds of people laying down "Palm branches" on the roadway, as he made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem, then right on down to the Great Crowd, "waving palm branches" and saying, "salvation we owe to God..." ... yes, "Palm Branches, "Palm Trees," even. There is something, truly wonderful in this continual mention of "Palm trees," within the scriptures.

  Why of course, they were too, displayed prominently within the Sanctuary of God, ... thru out the Sanctuary/temple, it was specifically designed to have many, many "Palm Trees," embroidered thru out the whole temple, on the walls of even the MOST HOLY, ... as well as the holy compartment,...but even in the Most Holy...where Jehovah's Holy Presence resided....there, "Cherubs" and "Palm Trees" were displayed there...very prominently....

  Why????????

  Well, let just say for now, and only, only, if you want to hear MORE... I'll continue... but still, yes, these "Palm Trees," even within the Most Holy Compartment, SIGNIFY something, Great, Great, Great, that Jehovah God is going to do, to swing the entire's population toward Himself, and toward True Worship.

  A stupendous act!

  "Palm Trees..."

  But, can you handle the truth...Frenchy.

  Do you really, want Jehovah God, to GIVE YOU THE REAL TRUTH, Frenchy?

  Or, will you spit it out, revile it... because deep down, there is something about what is said, that you just can't stand... something about it, that makes you want to vomit... in disgust...

  Just as you know, many on this board, hate my words and my very presence on this board... they hate it!

  They know who they are... they "hate" the words, of which, I'm about to speak... they "hate" real truth... But the Bible says Jesus "was HATED WITHOUT CAUSE"... that's hated without real "cause." They "hated" the WORDS OF TRUTH spoken from the mouth of Jesus. -- John 15:25

  You may have this same aversion, too... we may find this out...like many, an "aversion" to hearing the "REAL TRUTH,"...

  Can you handle it?

  And of course, yes, it "free," as "life's waters should be," ... "free," ... won't cost you anything to at least, HEAR IT...

  Jehovah has made it possible for this special information, the "truth," to be heard, yes, absolutely "free" of charge. I'd be happy to share it with you... if you want to hear it.

  But, I wonder... Can you HANDLE THE TRUTH, the REAL TRUTH, like Jack said in that movie.

  I trust that you will be able to do so. Because you have "groped" for it, as God said you would need to, before one "finds God." -- Acts 17:27

  MDS

  Edited by - MDS on 5 November 2000 13:57:19
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  9

  God's Kingdom-Can Its Coming Be Pre-Announced?

  by MDS in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the kingdom of god -- is it pre-announced with outstanding, observable events going before its coming?

  jesus said the following,.

  at luke 17:20, 21 we read:.

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  MDS

  The Kingdom of God -- Is It Pre-Announced with Outstanding, Observable Events Going Before Its Coming?

  Jesus said the following,

  At Luke 17:20, 21 we read:

  But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of God is not coming with STRIKING OBSERVABLENESS, neither will people be saying, "See here!", or, "there!" for, Look! the kingdom of God is in your midst."

  So we ask, would "Observableness" [Greek "parateresis", literally "attentive viewing"] be given toward the "Coming" of "God's Kingdom," by humans upon earth, BEFORE ITS ACTUAL "COMING"?

  Also, would there be individuals, humans assembled on earth, who would be able to say, yes, PROCLAIM to the world by printed page, in advance of the coming of the Kingdom of God, "See Here!," or "See There!", actually pointing forward to the actual time of its ARRIVAL, that is the Kingdom of God? (The WTS has taught for many years that Jesus actually "arrived" in "Kingdom Glory", in the year of 1914.)

  So we ask, would man be permitted by God, to actually, in truth, PRE-ANNOUNCE (In prophet-like fashion) THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and its imminent "Coming"?

  According to Jesus, this was not possible, as indicated above.

  However, the WTS and the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses feels differently. They feel otherwise.

  Yes, they as an organization feel, that they have accurately done just this...as would a prophet-like organization does. They have foretold for some 40 years in advance just when the Kingdom of God, in heaven, would indeed "come," or be established in the heavens, in the hands of Jesus Christ. The year, the time, October, of the year of 1914.
  
  However, individuals who study with Jehovah's Witnesses over the years, have questioned this. For example, this viewpoint, inadvertently raises questions about the logic and reasonableness of such a position, especially, using World War I [in 1914] as a "proof" (or as a part of a "composite sign") to identify when the "Kingdom of God," did come, as taught by the WTS?

  Further, how can christians, harmonize Matt. 24th chapter where Jesus does mention, a "sign" to be given, a "sign" of war, earthquakes, pestilences, and other events, to surely occur and, with the explicit instructions and the contents of the following scriptural information found at Luke 17:20, 21, also provided by Jesus, clearly indicating that no "observable" thing would occur to indicate, just "when" the "Kingdom of God" actually Comes?

  Many question this, who have studied the WTS literature. The WTS can provide no satisfactory answer.

  Can you?

  KEY SCRIPTURE: At Luke 17:20, 21 we read:

  But on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness, neither will people be saying, "See here!", or, "there!" for, Look! the kingdom of God is in your midst."

  The WTS and Jehovah's Witnesses, as an organization, do feel that they have been able to say: "See Here!, or "See There!" indicating to the world, IN ADVANCE, just when God's Kingdom, in the hands of Jesus Christ, would actually come in power, in 1914... they did this for over 40 years, by way of the Watchtower magazine, pointing forward to the year of 1914, before this supposedly occurred.

  However a growing number of concerned Jehovah's Witnesses, also QUESTION THE DATE OF 1914, now too...the veracity of the date. The chronology used to fixate the date. They also question whether the Kingdom of God, actually came "into power," also, in the year of 1914, even using the "composite sign" of World War I and other events, as used and taught by the WTS?

  So, we could ask ourselves, Have Jehovah's Witnesses really done as they have claimed, that is, given the world advance notice, of the Coming of the Kingdom of God, supposedly occurring in 1914?

  Have they done this or not?

  What would you say?

  Further, what would you say Jesus was trying to convey to us, about the unique "coming" of "God's Kingdom" and its manner of approach toward us, as christian disciples today, and also, to the world at large?

  What do you think?

  MDS

  Edited by - MDS on 4 November 2000 22:26:11
• 
  51

  Commentary

  by Seven in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  who's demanding?

  faith in ourselves has superseded faith in god .

  early in the 19th century, disputing the religious dogmatism of the puritans, ralph waldo emerson preached that "it is by yourself without ambassador that god speaks to you.

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  MDS

  Frenchy:

  I do not plan to "answer" every question you have.

  But I will review with you, the paragraph in question about this upcoming "war machine," that will utterly defeat the United States of America, in military battle.

  Here is what I said originally,

  "...WORLDWIDE PERSECUTION will come upon Jehovah's Witnesses, as a nation, quickly, "instantly," upon Jehovah's Witnesses, world-wide. At that time, Jehovah's Witnesses are now, earthwide "enemies," with the "king of the North," and his great "war" machine, WHO NOW REIGNS SUPREME EARTHWIDE.

  The United States of American will suffer a horrible defeat at his hands and will be reduced to a nation only interested in deeds of humanitarianism, at this time in human history."

  From the above statement, I was referring to the AFTERMATH of the "Great War," when that particular "king," the King of the North, and his military machinery, will hold total control over earth's affairs...when the nation of "Israel," Jehovah's Witnesses are then, sent "reeling," to the "wilderness," as the "woman." When they have become the "enemy" of the "king of the North" and are under persecution, on a worldwide scale. -- Rev. 12th

  I was not talking now...today. That event HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. The "King of the North," has not even made his appearance yet on the earthly scene...Its in the future, as the book, the "Report" clearly points out, and states plainly.

  MDS
• 
  51

  Commentary

  by Seven in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  who's demanding?

  faith in ourselves has superseded faith in god .

  early in the 19th century, disputing the religious dogmatism of the puritans, ralph waldo emerson preached that "it is by yourself without ambassador that god speaks to you.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  MDS

  Frenchy:

  You seem to have given us much more information about ‘the report’ than anyone else. Previously no one wanted to say very much about it. Do your associates approve of your disclosure of this information?

  I think things are coming along fine here...I don't see a problem, so far.

  Is the writer of the report this person?
  If not, then is the writer of the report a prophet raised in our day to declare this person? (Like John the Baptist did for Jesus?)

  The writer of the "Report" claims to be the person mentioned in Isaiah 49:1-6, the one given this assignment direct from Jehovah God. He claims to be God's Special Representative.

  Who is this King of the North that is at such odds with the WTS.

  The identity of the "king of the North," the "small horn," the "666" -- mark of the beast," and the identity of the "7 Headed, 10 Horned Beast" along with other key points from Revelation/Daniel will be "revealed" as a special "piece" of information used to introduce himself to the world. He will present himself to the world, with this "special" information.

  The United States is now the supreme military power on this earth. In terms of armament, fire power, and control of sea, land, and air and to the extent that it can deliver its deadly firepower it is the greatest world power that has ever existed in the history of man. Yet you say that a “great "war" machine, who now reigns supreme earthwide.” What is this “great war machine”?

  Yes, the United States is all that. And that's what makes the prediction of their destruction as a military world power, all the more, UNBELIEVABLE. This point is mentioned at the very outset of the book, in the Preface of the "Report." It will be a noteworthy prediction...one that will bring no little "attention" to the one who has made this "prediction," beforehand.

  200 million will want to know more.

  The writer of the "Report," plans to step upon the world scene, with this information, just before the "War" starts, ... but just after the "crown" has been given Him from Jehovah God, seen in the "ride of the White Horse." So, at that time, just before the arrival of the "red, fiery colored horse," of total War, he plans to make this disclosure to the world, publicly. -- Rev. 6th chapter

  As for the WTS changing to accommodate political governments, this has already begun. It’s not too far fetched to extrapolate that it will continue. History teaches us that when religions get really big that there are splits. As a matter of fact, it happened early on in the history of JW’s. There are still ‘Bible Students’, adherents of Pastor Russell that are around to this day. There are many disenchanted JW’s today, good, honest, sincere people who have left the hypocrisy of the WTS and feeling a deep need to worship are reaching out. It is not inconceivable that at least some of these will eventually come together...Nor would I be surprised to know that right now forces are coming together at the world headquarters that will split the society in two.

  Yes, we see these things now developing.

  However, as early as 1991, the group which was formed to start the project of referencing materials for the "Report" saw this as part of Bible prophecy...based upon Zech. 11:14 and other related Bible references. We saw this coming in 1991.

  Later, in 1994, when the book (Volumes I & II) was first copyrighted, there were still no OUTWARD signs of a possible split, nor "break" in the brotherhood, at this time, among Jehovah's Witnesses nor at WTS Headquarters.

  The next year, we published the book (Volume I), in Nov. 1995 and placed it on the book shelf.

  Here is a quote from pages 56, and 57 of the "Report" Volume I on this subject.

  "...Yes, as mentioned earlier, Bible prophecy indicates that Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation will be decimated of population, (like the Jewish nation), with only a remnant left of the nation to continue true worship because of sin and transgression

  against Jehovah's Law! Because of such sin, a DISTINCT SEPARATION WILL OCCUR IN THE BROTHERHOOD of Jehovah's Witneses. The "stick of Judah" will separate from the "stick of Joseph," and yet, after a period discipline, the will indeed, come back together again. Please carefully consider the following scriptural citations and these points will become quite discernable: Isaiah 11:12, 13; Ezekiel 37:15-23; Hosea 1:11, Zechariah 11:14; Jeremiah 30:1-3."

  After the book (Volume I) was released, and placed on the book shelf, that is, around 6 months later, around the spring of 1996, the "AJWR" movement [Association of Jehovah Witnesses For Reform] made its appearance as a website, (the forerunner of H2O, who showed up in the fall of 1996) when things begin to visibly shake, as far as the organization was concerned. Some 5 to 6 months previous to the appearance of "AJWR," the Oct. 15th and Nov. 1st Watchtower magazines announced the "generation that lives to see the end" change and adjustment -- as well as the judging and separating of the "sheep and goats," adjustment. Shortly after this, rumblings began to be heard around the world, among Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Fourteen years you say. Well, I might very well not be around to see that anyway. This is all very interesting, I grant you. So what are you proponents of this prophet doing meanwhile?

  We are always, waging a "secret", private, battle against Satan, to survive, since he is quite aware of our presence, our acting as "guardians," and "custodians," of this message. So, this information makes us a real threat to him. It has brought about a very real threat to us, being possessors of this potentially lethal information that threatens to shake the house of Satan down. So, we are ace-enemy #1 to him.

  MDS

  Edited by - MDS on 22 October 2000 19:29:58