I still say if God wants us to listen to somebody he should write it in the sky. Write it in some miraculous way that emits light and doesn't move away day or night, but is constant 24 hrs a day. Leave it for a month. It would be covered on every news outlet in the world. Billions would see it. It would never be forgotten.
xjwsrock
JoinedPosts by xjwsrock
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32
God does not desire any to be destroyed?
by stuckinarut2 inso if the idea is promoted that god doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, why does he make it so confusing for people to learn about him?.
why are there thousands of differing religions?.
why has "his only true organisation" even taught so many varying doctrines?.
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14
My Take on the Convention
by xjwsrock in4300 in attendance - 17 baptized.
odd mix of congregations assigned, i'm sure to throw off any scent of a decline.. no distinction made whatsoever between loyalty to jehovah god and loyalty to the watchtower bible and tract society.
the convention is riddled with parts whipping up your love for the creator and jesus, with a quick reminder that the wbts are their gatekeepers.. parallels are implied constantly between israel and jehovah's witnesses.
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xjwsrock
4300 in attendance - 17 Baptized
Odd mix of congregations assigned, I'm sure to throw off any scent of a decline.
No distinction made whatsoever between loyalty to Jehovah God and loyalty to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Zero.
The convention is riddled with parts whipping up your love for the Creator and Jesus, with a quick reminder that the WBTS are their gatekeepers.
Parallels are implied constantly between Israel and Jehovah's Witnesses. Many scriptures were read in the Hebrew Scriptures. All scriptures speaking of hope or deliverance instantly applied to Jehovah's Witnesses and Armageddon regardless of actual context.
Implied, if not direct, threats flew around liberally for disloyalty. References were made to many people being killed for being disloyal. The Golden Calf episode thoroughly discussed. Korah and the ground opening up, Aaron's sons being killed, etc.
"Independent Thinking" was mentioned more than once and shamelessly condemned. JW's are not to have any opinion about the teachings from the "slave" unless they are positive. If we have a negative thought about anything coming from the "slave" we are to immediately dismiss it and "Wait on Jehovah" with a humble attitude.
There were a lot of stoic faces in the audience during the heavier videos. It was hard to read people but I didn't see a lot of emotion. I was surprised however by the kool-aid drinker comments from many after the assembly. They actually eat this stuff up. It blows my mind now that I'm awake to it all. It seems so blatantly manipulative, but it apparently plays on a JW's desire to be better than everyone else and judgmental. I heard one brother talk about (with raised eyebrows no less) how many in his hall had a lot to work on after this convention (how nice of him to point that out). One elder speculated that maybe future shepherding calls would also include a message of judgement..
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My overall take- It's one thing to watch the videos at home on a personal device and be shocked by them, but to see the organization proudly parade this craziness in front of thousands of people on multiple jumbo-tron screens, is something else altogether. It was bizarre and surreal.
I walked in knowing they were a culty cocktail of delusion and deceit. I walked out thinking, though, they are also disturbingly narcissistic and paranoid. More so than I knew.
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My Issue With the Kingdom Melodies
by humblepotato inthe organization really has some talented people in it.
seriously talented.
artists, musicians, animators, and any other creative venue you can think of.
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xjwsrock
My issue with the kingdom melodies:
They are indoctrination set to music.
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The problem with shunning
by poopie inshunning is unjust because say the problem is with 2 people let's say it's fraud against another person.
now 8 million people are brought into the problem by also shunning the one person that the 8 million must also shun do you see how stupid that is..
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xjwsrock
Good point poopie. Whether the 8 million are called upon personally or not, it is implied and used as an intimidation.
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I Don't Care If It Is A Cult ???
by thereishope inshared a bit with my husband the other day about what i'd learned about cults.
how nearly (if not all) every box on the list gets checked for jw.
he got some upset!
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xjwsrock
I will have to say, I'm having more success with my wife slowly eroding the JW mindset/phobias. By less obvious means such as living well financially. All that simplify bologna leads to a life of financial stress and often worries about security. Despite the videos, pioneer couples usually can't live in the safest areas of town. We enjoy things that others are "doing-without for the Lord"...Lol. It's just stupid. Working hard and being successful not only brings a better income and a better quality of life, it also brings satisfaction and fulfillment - something that is glaringly missing from most JW lives.
I guess I'm doing what Steven Hassan talks about - trying to bring out the non-cult personality. It's slow but I'm seeing progress.
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21
I Don't Care If It Is A Cult ???
by thereishope inshared a bit with my husband the other day about what i'd learned about cults.
how nearly (if not all) every box on the list gets checked for jw.
he got some upset!
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xjwsrock
I imagine that is a strange experience. You see cult indoctrination come out in a conversation about the org being a cult.....yikes.....But what else can happen really? It's all pre-programmed in there (his head that is)
It's emotional too. The carrot was the motivator that came up for him. It is used to manipulate thousands so not surprising. Often it is to see a dead loved one again. That's what makes me sick. This cult promises to deliver a person's favorite dead person if they serve them the rest of their lives.
Probably best to lay back for awhile. The goal is to plant seeds. We have no control over if or when they sprout.
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14
The Worst Way of Living
by Coded Logic inthe unexamined life is not worth living.. -socrates.
holding all of humanity in contempt and degrading every achievement of mankind as being insignificant is not a philosophy or a worldview worth having.
tell me, oh self righteous jw, what was the price of your integrity?
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xjwsrock
Better to wake up now than later. So much to explore. Different forms of exercise. Meditation. Diet, nutrition, ways of cooking. Hobbies etc.
Waking up to ttatt actually teaches us that life is not about some prescribed form of "spirituality". So physical things are actually more important than we used to think. Our health for instance is more important than we used to think.
Also, I think that the "truth" appealed to some competitive part of us that felt we were winning the contest of life. When we wake up we realize that we haven't been winners but actually deluded losers..... Lol. .......But still better to wake up than continue asleep. Many aren't so lucky. Many have had worse fates.
Life is all about playing the cards you are dealt. If you are still in the game, you still have a chance to come out on top.
We ex-JWs or ex-believers can focus on the lost dream too much and think that if the dream is lost then life has no purpose. It isn't that life has no purpose, it just doesn't have that purpose. It's an important distinction. We can fill that void.
The truth-thing was an experience. We see it as mainly negative of course but if we're honest it wasn't 100% negative. We are wiser now. We are less likely to chase another pipe-dream. We can offer someone else some pretty sage advice if called upon to do so. I think we come out of it more grounded and practical with an appreciation for freedom that many take for granted.
We come out with battle scars, but if we permit ourselves a next chapter, we can enter it battle-tested.
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I have a plan....
by DATA-DOG inwith all of the bat-shit crazy propaganda of late, i'm considering talking to my wife about the cult.
we have had zero religious discussions for two years.
the last discussion ended with ,"you have no beliefs, no personal beliefs, because you change your "beliefs" when the wtbts writes an article.
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xjwsrock
Boom....
Good Job. The contrast is ridiculous.
But hey the Watchtower is just paying the bills. What's a few human rights violated...... Morris needs some new plain black socks.
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Judge sanctions WTS - $4k per day penalty for not producing sex abuse documents
by Simon injudge sanctions jehovah's witnesses.
imposes $4000-a-day penalty for not producing documents in sex-abuse case.
by dorian hargrove, june 24, 2016. a san diego superior court judge has ordered the church of jehovah's witnesses, also known as the watchtower bible and tract society of pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested in a civil lawsuit brought by former parishioner, osbaldo padron, who claims a church elder sexually abused him when he was seven years old.. in a june 23 ruling, expected to be made final today, judge richard strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 body of elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders.. over the course of the past year, the watchtower society and its lawyers have fought hard to keep the letter confidential, claiming that turning over the documents would infringe on the privacy of those mentioned in the letter that were not associated with the case.. in march 2015, the church turned over a heavily redacted version of the letter.
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xjwsrock
That's Great. Stick it to 'em!
Their courtroom heyday is officially over.
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13
When the dam wall busts.
by stuckinarut2 insome (especially witnesses) may wonder what brings us to places like this?.
why is it that we have chosen to step away from the society that we once viewed as "the truth", despite the consequences for doing so?.
well for any visitors to this site, or any other "apostate" sites, the answer is simple really:.
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xjwsrock
I think there comes a point after many years of experience and observation when our pattern recognition kicks in and is undeniable. Our minds can only dismiss so much. At some point our survival instincts override the indoctrination.
For instance, there are only so many bad elders that can be written off as exceptions. There are only so many doctrinal changes that can be explained away as "new light". There is only so many times a person can handle false prophecy and have it excused as "maintaining urgency". There are only so many scandals that can be brushed under the rug. There are only so many meetings and conventions you can attend out of duty knowing the only way you can get through them is to daydream or get an assignment that takes you away from your seat.
Even with intentional suppression, you can only ignore these things so long. At some point your subconscious, driven by survival instincts and pure logic, spits out a warning message you can't ignore.
The proverbial damn breaks.
You suspect something is amiss and no "wait on Jehovah" or "maybe Jehovah is allowing this for a reason" is going to work this time. The logical part of your mind is winning market share and you realize that Jehovah isn't scared of critics or at least shouldn't be. Even Jesus apparently spent the day with the greatest apostate of all time, Satan himself. He spoke to him. He wasn't afraid. Surely our "truth" can stand up to some online research, for crying out loud.
After about a month of omg's and wtf's, you know in your heart of hearts, it's over. Decades of belief gone in a few weeks of listening to the counter-arguments.
Again, with the logical part of your mind gaining strength, you know that decades of "spiritual instruction" shouldn't fall apart in a matter of days.
Most of us do at least some verification of what we have learned to make sure we aren't being misled. Once we are satisfied that it is all true, we then know exactly why the Watchtower is so against looking at apostate materials. It is in their best interests, not ours.
IOW.....we were scammed.