most of us here have seen and experienced the judgmental attitude among jw's.
the pioneers look down on the publishers.
the appointed men look down on the non-appointed men.
Yeah what has always bugged me was this. If you are so happy in all of your righteous, God-loving, save-the-world, spiritual martyrdom, then why do you care so much about what I'm doing (or not doing)?
Shouldn't you be eat up with zeal? Isn't it your food to do the will of God like Jesus? Shouldn't a person as spiritual as you say you are, be overwhelmed with love and concern instead of ridicule and contempt?
I guess I am just confused......(sarcasm) 😒
so if there was no promise of a "reward" for faithfulness...no paradise...no eternal life etc, how many witnesses would stick with the "faith"?.
sure, the reward might be "making god happy", but he supposedly holds out the paradise promise with eternal life as an incentive right?.
before anyone says, that's what satans challenge regarding job was about, just think.
Well I will answer this way. One of the best manipulation tools is the simple carot-and-stick. It works on humans and animals alike. You can dangle a reward/treat to motivate or threaten pain/punishment. It really works well when used simultaneously.
For JW's the paradise is the carrot and the biggest stick is Armageddon. Take away the paradise=take away the carrot=take away a huge manipulation tool.
So less would stick with it because they would be less emotionally manipulated to stick with it.
most of us here have seen and experienced the judgmental attitude among jw's.
the pioneers look down on the publishers.
the appointed men look down on the non-appointed men.
Most of us here have seen and experienced the judgmental attitude among JW's.
The pioneers look down on the publishers. The appointed men look down on the non-appointed men. The mid-week service go-ers look down on the weekenders. etc. etc. etc.
How much of this is driven by underlying resentment?
How many pioneers actually hate pioneering and resent the other publishers because they don't feel the same obligation to do it?
Same for elders. Same for MS's. Same for CO's. etc...?
Current elder here. Let's just say I don't fit in very well. Lol.......
Staying in for the wife. It won't last forever but I have to go a little longer.
What I am running into lately is the bewilderment and frustration from fellow elders when I do not feel the same level of obligation that they do. I just turned down an assignment..... GASP! ......I will turn down more before it is over. Of course, you know what that means.......... Whispers, self-rightousness, and judgement behind my back.
The love of Christ's brothers is overwhelming!
was talking to a good buddy of mine a couple days ago (we pioneered and were in bethel together and have both left the cult a few years ago), about the current cart and d. and the consensus was that it is now a complete joke.
was watching a couple witnesses last week sit at a table with their literature display.
no approaching people for conversation, no initiating stimulating dialogue with passerbys, as was encouraged when i "pioneered" back in the day.
Whatever they can talk the zombies into doing, whether door to door, on the phone, cart advertising, giving talks, reaching out, etc. - it is primarily a sign of subservience to the leadership. That is the top priority. Recruitment of new members is a fringe benefit and of secondary importance.
It's an adult game of 'Simon Says'. Lol....
4300 in attendance - 17 baptized.
odd mix of congregations assigned, i'm sure to throw off any scent of a decline.. no distinction made whatsoever between loyalty to jehovah god and loyalty to the watchtower bible and tract society.
the convention is riddled with parts whipping up your love for the creator and jesus, with a quick reminder that the wbts are their gatekeepers.. parallels are implied constantly between israel and jehovah's witnesses.
Wow, you can really see the growth 😳
Surely more than 34 will quit after the terrible display of cultism this convention was.
This organization is in decline and it will only get worse. I'm afraid it's fall will be a slow one though.
i'm not sure if anyone is keeping track, but as of today, the wtbts has spent $40,000.00 usd to avoid releasing sensitive documents to the superior authorities.
that's $40,000.00 usd of "dedicated funds.
are you a born-in jw?
ChaChing!
so real quick, i know this comes up now and then and i've looked over some of the posts from the past but here's the thing.. when i was a jw i drank all the cool aid, i was 100% and so i have all my own arguments (from the jw's) for why the bible is inspired.
i no longer believe this but i'd really like to read something that is pretty much 100% academic on this subject.
i want to read what scholars have to say about the authenticity of the bible and it's claim at being the inspired word of god.
To add to what Cofty said, there are a few more things that opened my eyes. I read a few essays by Thomas Paine. They are really good. He was one of the Founding Fathers of the United States.
He pointed out the spinning sword in the Garden of Eden story is a blatant anachronism. It is a bronze age tool in a stone age story. It would be like writing a story about Christopher Columbus and having him answer his cell phone while sailing on the Santa Maria.
Reread the story of Babel. It actually is quite short. Gen 11:1-9. It is written from the perspective of a person who believes the earth is flat, and that's just the beginning of the problems with the story.
Actually Gen chapters 1 - 11 or so is enough to put the book down and never pick it up again. Flood? Take a look at ancient Chinese History and tell me civilization had a divine reboot 4000 years ago. Yeah right.
so real quick, i know this comes up now and then and i've looked over some of the posts from the past but here's the thing.. when i was a jw i drank all the cool aid, i was 100% and so i have all my own arguments (from the jw's) for why the bible is inspired.
i no longer believe this but i'd really like to read something that is pretty much 100% academic on this subject.
i want to read what scholars have to say about the authenticity of the bible and it's claim at being the inspired word of god.
I heard about this book on a podcast I plan to read -
God: The Most Unpleasant Character in All Fiction
by Dan Barker
as portrayed in the convention videos this year about sergei (the fictional jw character in cold-war-era ussr), the jw leaders expect loyalty, even enduring imprisonment and/or death.
in one scene sergei was offered an early release from prison if he would sign a statement renouncing his religion.
well he refused and spent 5 years in prison as a result.
An argument could be made that a person or religion should never deny their beliefs or faith when questioned or challenged, even if doing so would bring negative consequences or persecution. It's called being faithful. It's called standing up for what you believe in.
Refusing to tell the enemy where people are hiding, or refusing to give a list of names, etc., is not the same as denying your religious convictions.
Geoffrey Jackson denied his religious beliefs in a public forum as a representative of the entire religion. That's not theocratic warfare. That's selling out to avoid persecution. That's selling out to protect the business interests of your multi-billion dollar machine. That's FEAR plain and simple. It shows a lack of faith in their God's saving ability.
