Posts by mensa163

35

What Do Un-Believers Not Believe?

by mensa163 in

one of the things that used to annoy me in the new testament was the "believe in jesus" message.

any explainations seemed fuzzy at best so i decided to take a run at it from behind and find the definintion of an un-believer.here is what i came up with and i welcome other opinions.

many of the people around jesus were jews, they walked with him, talked with him, listened to his teachings and witnessed his miracles.

mensa163

Ozzie
Divine nature......yes I agree we can "partake in the divine nature". This may even refer to the Holy Spirit working in us or also the term "Jesus in our hearts"
The way I understand Jesus claim goes something like this.........All of us could rightly refer to God as our Father In heaven and this would be perfectly acceptable. However if I said God is my "daddy" it would give a whole different meaning and I would be in error. In my way of seeing it Jesus refered to God as "his daddy" which angered the Jews around him. Forgive my choice of words but it is the easiest way to describe it.

TR
You hit the nail on the head! Anyone who wishes merely to make Jesus divine are really trying to avoid any possibility that Jesus may indeed be "God among us". This is my reason to try to clearly define an un-believer which in turn should clearly define a believer. Just about everybody in the world and many religions will allow Jesus to be a great teacher, a prophet , a perfect man, or anything else with no problem. It is when you try to refer to Jesus as God all the rebellion is arroused. I once had a conversation with a new-ager type . She said we were all Gods, or we could all attain godhood by searching deep in our conscience selves etc. I went along with her for a few minutes and then asked her if it was possible for Jesus Christ to be God. She was furious and said "absolutely not true". I have found this intriguing through the years that many people will allow just about anything to be God but never Jesus Christ. This started my quest in defining an Un-believer.

Francoise
Hi... I pead guilty as being one of those people who used to think only "my church" had it right, but have come a long way since. I look forward to your slant on this unbeliever stuff

24

I can fool everybody with my religion!

by mensa163 in

jw
friends

whether i am a lutheran, catholic, jehovahs witness, mormon jew or any other religion i can play the part quite well.

as a matter of fact most of us can.

i can be regular at my places of worship, give generously , teach sunday school, read my.

mensa163

Larc
No I don't know the Wright Bros. home town. If you don't tell me soon it will bug me to death.
What is "The Hood?"
Sounds like a nice town,quite,private etc.
The Wright's had a mansion? Did they make any money on the airplane?

24

I can fool everybody with my religion!

by mensa163 in

jw
friends

whether i am a lutheran, catholic, jehovahs witness, mormon jew or any other religion i can play the part quite well.

as a matter of fact most of us can.

i can be regular at my places of worship, give generously , teach sunday school, read my.

mensa163

Larc
The Wright Bros. get credit for first flight at Kitty Hawk
The helicopter was attempted in various crude ways back to 1913 (Jens Ellehammer in Denmark). Igor Sikorsky was the first American to fly one with decent control and the army bought a few around 1943. The Bell Helicopter was actually developed by Arthur Young in a barn on the family farm. He commissioned a neighbour boy to mass-produce rotor blades while he tested and destroyed many models until he came up with a stable design.
--Did you know if you hooked onto the rotorblades of a helicopter and tried to lift it with a crane, the blades would bend and break and are unable to support the weight of the machine. (It is when they are spinning, the centrifugal force keeps the blades rigid enough to support the weight.)
--Did you know that the helicopter is composed of highly engineered , highly stressed parts, all moving at high speed in order to be able to sit in one spot and do nothing (hover)
You probably didnt want to know all that mechanical stuff.....but I couldnt resist
......another one.....some people claim that the only reason a helicopter can fly is because it is so ugly the ground repels it ha!!

24

I can fool everybody with my religion!

by mensa163 in

jw
friends

whether i am a lutheran, catholic, jehovahs witness, mormon jew or any other religion i can play the part quite well.

as a matter of fact most of us can.

i can be regular at my places of worship, give generously , teach sunday school, read my.

mensa163

Hey Larc & everybody
I tried to change my user-name and was unable so I am stuck with it at least for a while. You were right Larc, I should have posted the original on a different category. I am finding my way around here and i posted a hum-dinger under i think doctrines and beliefs. I took a run at trying to define an un-believer "yikes". Take a look and tear it apart for me. I remain mensa163 wishing I was bell47 ha!!!!

35

What Do Un-Believers Not Believe?

by mensa163 in

one of the things that used to annoy me in the new testament was the "believe in jesus" message.

any explainations seemed fuzzy at best so i decided to take a run at it from behind and find the definintion of an un-believer.here is what i came up with and i welcome other opinions.

many of the people around jesus were jews, they walked with him, talked with him, listened to his teachings and witnessed his miracles.

mensa163

One of the things that used to annoy me in the new testament was the "believe in Jesus" message. Any explainations seemed fuzzy at best so I decided to take a run at it from behind and find the definintion of an Un-Believer.Here is what I came up with and I welcome other opinions. Many of the people around Jesus were Jews, they walked with him, talked with him, listened to his teachings and witnessed his miracles. They could not then deny a person named Jesus was in thier midst yet they were "Unbeliever in Jesus" The point when the jews rejected Jesus appears to be when he refered to Jehovah God as being his Father. This was unacceptable to many because Jesus was saying in essence that the human woman Mary was his mother and Jehovah God in Heaven was his father. The Jews considered this blasphemy that Jesus would claim Divine origins. We could get off in a debate forever about the Trinity etc which I do not wish to do here. At the very least was Jesus not half God and half human? I hate my choice of words but do not know another way to say it. Is it fair to say Jesus was like God come to earth in the form of a man.It appears that is what a believer must believe.I cannot see it any other way.Any respose appreciated.

14

JUDGEMENT DAY

by RR in

the society has condemned just about everyone to second death, especially those who have been jusged in the past by jehovah [adam, sodom, flood victims, etc.

what do you friends say, does the society have an argument?

are those judged in the past to stay judged and dead?.

mensa163

Hi RR
That is a hard question and I have pondered it often. I make no attempt to answer now but wanted to add a tid-bit which may be related to your question. At the time of Jesus death in Matthew 27 (I think) it says the tombs broke open and many of the holy people who had died ,came to life and walked the streets. I often wonder if it was so they could choose or reject the Messiah and later be judged accordingly. As far as the new Testament it looks like the followers of Christ have no fear of the second death.
You pose a good question, I have never specifically looked it up but I do not recall any info on judgement of OT people. You make we want to get the bible out but will do another time. Anyone else know more??????Let us know

24

I can fool everybody with my religion!

by mensa163 in

jw
friends

whether i am a lutheran, catholic, jehovahs witness, mormon jew or any other religion i can play the part quite well.

as a matter of fact most of us can.

i can be regular at my places of worship, give generously , teach sunday school, read my.

mensa163

I am new at this forum and I regret my choice of usernames. As I was filling out the registration form I just picked my last IQ test mark lying on the table. This is the highest score I have achieved so far. Usually I am between 140-143. A bit above average but certainly not genius. There are many things I am not very good at, believe me. I am going to change my user name to Bell47 which is the model of helicopter I am licsenced to fly but rarely can afford. At one time in my life I probably tried to get up to heaven in the helicopter but it didn't work......ha!!....I believe the answer can be found in the New Testament and hope to focus on this in future discussion.Many people on these pages include a quote so I also will tell you mine. It was written by Igor Sikorsky, one of the first successfull helicopter designers in the USA.

Lose your money and you have lost little.....
Lose your health and you lose much............
Lose your soul and you lose everything.......

bell47 (former mensa163)

24

I can fool everybody with my religion!

by mensa163 in

jw
friends

whether i am a lutheran, catholic, jehovahs witness, mormon jew or any other religion i can play the part quite well.

as a matter of fact most of us can.

i can be regular at my places of worship, give generously , teach sunday school, read my.

mensa163

Lark
I do not claim to be a humble Christian and will not try to be. Because I use Mensa163 as my title does not make me think I am some type of genius and my apologies to you. I consider myself an ordinary person who loves to read and research especially the Bible. If I cannot state my position in this forum what is the point. However I will take your advice and see if there is a more appropriate area for my comments. I thank you for your message. As far as names I could define Lark as a beautiful bird or someone doing foolish pranks. I do not judge you either way...to me it is just a user name!.....Here's hoping you are a beautiful bird!!
Arnie

24

I can fool everybody with my religion!

by mensa163 in

jw
friends

whether i am a lutheran, catholic, jehovahs witness, mormon jew or any other religion i can play the part quite well.

as a matter of fact most of us can.

i can be regular at my places of worship, give generously , teach sunday school, read my.

mensa163

Whether I am a Lutheran, Catholic, Jehovahs Witness, Mormon Jew or any other religion I can play the part quite well. As a matter of fact most of us can. I can be regular at my places of worship, give generously , teach sunday school, read my
bible in private and in public. I am able to lead a reasonably clean lifestyle with a minimum of sin. I can fool myself or anybody I encounter. My elders are pleased with my performance and give me much credit. However there is one area that I get cornered every time. It is "What Do I Believe About Christ" I have only the choice of believer or a non believer , I cannot fool even myself in this area and for sure I cannot fool God. God sure must have a lot of wisdom because he nails us down to choose one or the other. Years ago I was annoyed at how often the Bible mentioned the importance of being a believer in Jesus , it seemed too simple, no works required initially. No religions required. Now I see God's wisdom in everything hinging on being a believer first and all good Christian works are an add-on and not a requirement.

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and I accept him as my Lord and Savior and I ask that he will forgive my sins and seal me for eternal life as promised in the New Testament. Any additional good works I do will just be a bonus.

I look forward to any comments you may have. Thanks

2

Christ and those prophesies.

by uncle_onion in

jw
friends

last night on bbc1 there was a programme that was talking of the life of christ.one of the things that it mentioned was that the jews were waiting for the messiah to appear although they were expecting a warrior leader.. this got me thinking.

i remember reading an article that show 70 "prophecies" in the bible, that were fulfilled by the birth of christ.the jews would have known about these.

also what about the 70 weeks prophecy that is meant to prophecy the birth of christ?

mensa163

uncle onion
I find your question very interesting. It is one I have often considered as well. I have given it a lot of study and thought and my opinion is as follows: Yes indeed the Jews were expecting a strong warrior type of Messiah to come and rescue them from thier enemies etc. The old testament backs this up. There is much less in the old testament about the softer-style Messiah such as Jesus turned out to be. I think in God's wisdom he knew if he sent the "powerful" "save Isreal from thier enemies" type af Messiah most jews would (and so would we) find it very advantages to follow him even if they were not genuine in thier obedience to God. Instead, Jesus came....born in a barn.....riding on a donkey....hanging on a cross.....not very appealing. If a person was a follower of Jesus it must have been genuine because there was often more persecution than advantage at the time. For these reasons the Jews largely rejected him as Messiah and to this day they await the powerful savior type Messiah. They are partly correct in expecting such. If you jump ahead into Revelation prophesies we will find that the Anti-christ will set himself up in the rebuilt Jewish Temple in Jerusalem and demand worship. For all the disobedience of the Jews through history, the one thing they refuse to do is worship anyone other than Jehovah God and will refuse to worship "the beast" in the temple. Things get progressively worse (Armaggedon) until the Jewish people are so distraught they plead and cry out to God for help and ask him to send the Messiah. God does indeed send the Messiah who stands on the mount of olives and proceeds to deliver his people from the evil enemy in a powerfull warrior type fashion.so the prophesies are correct in predicting a powerful , conquering Messiah. The interesting thing here is who does the Messiah look like? He looks exactly like Jesus Christ "the one whom they pierced" and the jews realize thier error of rejecting Jesus who had slipped in earlier as a quieter Messiah. God has always known of the jewish disobedience and for the past couple of thousand years has allowed any of us non-jews to take advantage of the salvation rejected by the jews. These are "the times of the gentiles" which is the period we are now living in. It is interesting to see today, all the fighting in Isreal is centered around the Holy Mount where the Israelies want to rebuild the original Soloman's Temple and re-institute the daily sacrifice.
I would look forward to you comments on my way of interpreting this. Thanks....Arnie