Fantastic x
snare&racket
JoinedPosts by snare&racket
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26
UNITY vs CONFORMITY - discuss.
by disposable hero of hypocrisy ini've read the walsh trial that indicates the societies stance of ' unity at all costs, even if we're wrong ' but that sounds more like conformity to me.
so how do other religions or movements justify the range of beliefs within their respective movements?
for example, the born again movement, a massive range of beliefs, but they don't insist on conformity.
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snare&racket
When I was leaving, a friends father was commuicating via his son. He was a presiding overseer, his message was that he didn't agree with all the doctrines or directives either, that it was nomal to feel that and that there was nowhere else to go. His mum admitted to believing evolution to likely be true when I brought it up and his dad and he (a M.S.) both admitted to using phrases like "he GB suggest..." or "The organisation has said we should..." whenerve they felt uncomrtable communicating doctrine etc they didn't agree with.
My point is Disp-Hero, they are not united, you have 7 million people too scared to say how they really feel and what they truly believe. WT is an organisation where excommunication takes place if you have ANY independant beliefs or even thinking. You are not permitted to accept scientific fact and accept evolution. You may not bring up your concern that at the very first memorial, not one person was 'anointed'. You may not diagree with 607, there is no doubt in my mind that at least half of JW's disagree with the blood issue. The medical journals indicate that at least 20% of JW's accept blood in secret.
They are not united, they are gagged.
Ruby, I take what you say and totally agree, however I was reffering to freedom of thought and belief, a spiritual imprisonment, a belief system of constraint. Mouse A+B can live in mazes of the same design, i.e. they could both be catholics, but take different directions on some matters. But they are both united in sharing the same construct of belief. Whereas mice B +C have a different lay out to that of A+C, different religious restrictions.
Evolutionary traits answer so many of our questions in life. Religion thrives on tribalism and xenaphobia, harwired traits that keep you alive on the plains of Africa. They make you feel safe, part of a crowd. The deeper to the centre you get the safer you feel, but the centre is reserved for the dominant members, far from the outskirts, the area of risk.
The cost of such comfort and safety? Loyalty/confrmity to the dominant centre, the alpha males.
Fred Phelps died, he saw his non believing grandaughter whilst he was dying a few weeks back, so 8 male members of the church formed a body and removed him from the church for being weak, they even removed him from his house which was based in the church building. Now they have attacked the woman we all associated with the WB Church his daughter, the 8 men have told her to be subdued as she is a woman, they are threatening her excommunication now too. It al plays out, just like a nature documentary.....
If you want unity, give us loyalty, if not out you go alone... We have all experienced it, hence we came here looking to replace that need for a crowd heading in the same direction, as we pass through this time and space in our universe.
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15
Whats the difference between a rank and file member and a G.B.member .
by smiddy inand r.& f. member , initially beleived with our whole soul that jehovahs witnesses had the ultimate truth over every other religion .. the differences between the g.b.
members and the r&f members is simply this.
members are given power and authourity by the r.&f members to dictate to them what they should beleive through new light revelations.
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snare&racket
About 3 meals a day, free clothing, a car and an apartment in New York City/Countryside.
Also one speaks, the other may only listen.
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34
Just got a call from an elder
by nolongerconfused inso i faded over a year ago...i told the elders that if i needed them i would call them.
1 year and 3 months later, today, i get a call from an elder who used to be my good friend...he calls and i dont pick up..he leaves a voicemail, saying "hello ____, please call me back at 444-444-4444 whenever you can".
i was like wow, this has to be one of those calls to get inactive ones back to the memorial.
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snare&racket
Probably sat with a list of numbers to call.....
Ever day my old belief system seems wierder and wierder, the fact they think they can call and leave a message like that and not have the perspective to realise how cold, businesslike and eye opening such a message is.
"you will know them by the [fake] love they have amonst themselves."
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snare&racket
I listen to that podcast 'religiously' must have been switched off, seth's voice is so calming!
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9
GTA V - Grand Theft Auto 5 players?
by DeWandelaar inhi guys,.
in my spare time i play this game... are there any players who play this game on a xbox360 and wanna play it online?
if so please pm me so we can share gamertags.
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snare&racket
If you guys are still up for a laugh I am, pm me the gamertags
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26
UNITY vs CONFORMITY - discuss.
by disposable hero of hypocrisy ini've read the walsh trial that indicates the societies stance of ' unity at all costs, even if we're wrong ' but that sounds more like conformity to me.
so how do other religions or movements justify the range of beliefs within their respective movements?
for example, the born again movement, a massive range of beliefs, but they don't insist on conformity.
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snare&racket
Firstly, welcome to the forum.... and great name!
I have friends who are muslims (shia and sunni), evangelical, catholic, protestant, buddhist.... and all will claim that they can believe what they want. Hell, I have even had JW's claim it.
In some cases it is true. My muslim friend has come to accept evolution and has found a verse that he can construe to make it possible and he now ignores the ones that overtly contradict it. In my same year group is a muslim who denies evolution vehemently and believes that 6000 years ago humans were a few hundred feet tall (don't ask).
The reality is, the muslims would defend each other for their religious identity, to the death. They see what they share in common over what they conflict on. That being said, they are shia muslims and are in serious conflict with the sunni muslims, some of which I am also friendly with. It is truly bizzare. but it is the same with all the other belief systems. If you look at JW's they claim concrete solidarity and unity, but having visited congs all over the world, the views on many things change wildly. In fact you can travel from one congregation to another next door and see a huge difference in atmosphere and to what is acceptable and what is not. Much comes down to the personality of the elders in the local hall. Even doctrines change in JW's by region. In Australia, a discussion on fossils and dinosaurs will lead to comments about demons burying them to test our faith, something I found truly shocking. Enough people said it and agreed that it was not just one persons opinion in one cong.
An analogy that comes to mind for all these people is that of a mouse in a maze. A mouse in a maze will claim he has freedom, he can turn left or right. But in reality he is not free, he is restricted to the constructs of the maze, constructs and rstraints laid down by others. Real freedom allows left right, forwards, backwards, up, down, diagonal etc etc. Freedom is about perspective. A man imprisoned in a room for 20 years may feel free if allowed to walk in a yard For a few hours a week.
Coming back to conformity and unity. These mice may be able to turn left or right, but they share the same maze, so they are in that sense united, but not in freedom. The punishment for apostacy or blasphemy in islam is death, apostacy including the desicion to leave the maze.
As for the many sects of christianity including JW's, some are more sympathetic to personal freedoms than others, but in reality there is a shared framework or tolernces and beliefs, they all use the bible after all. Some will deny verses without a blink of an eye, declaring them simply wrong, some will die for that verse, just as one mouse turns left, another right. But a free man, in my opinion, doesn't even know the verse exists ;)
snare
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153
One aspect of evolution that does not make sense.....
by EndofMysteries inthe part that does make sense are how bodies adapt over time to surroundings and use.
for example because of eating habits changing, our jaws have become smaller and we don't need wisdom teeth.
or the effect of the sun on our skin, etc.
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snare&racket
The book I mentioned is a textbook, which may seem like an odd suggestion, however they are designed to be read to form an understanding from scratch. Also textbooks are updated in edition according to the latest research.
importanlty textbooks provide you with the whole picture, Evolution as a theory by itself requires much study and many years learning. A textbook will give you a summary of what we currently know in genetics, zoology, cell biology, and abiogenesis. It will take effort, but answer all your questions Before you can think to ask them as we have been asking the questions for 150 years now.
I found secular books by biologists and alike very good, but they assume a certain level of education. I came to this issue as a JW and didn't even know what science was, at age 26. I didn't know who scientists were and what they did. That textbook changed my life, so that is why I always mention it. You can get an older edition for about $20 or £15. That will suffice. Once you have the foundation knowledge, you can educate yourself on the recent developments.
Just to lastly clarify how a textbook is developed. Research is done by a scientist, they write a paper with the results, the scientific community peer review the findings, repeat the experiments, add to them etc. on rare occasions if there is fault found, they are redacted. Every 5 years or so, the science publishing industry collate all the data and publish it in the form of a textbook. Hence, we are encouraged to not use data or textbooks more than ten years old. I am currently on a cardiology ward and A+E, the lectures we had on managing many cardiology scenarios 2years ago are already out of date, with new research, new guidelines and new protocols in place. Maybe this will help put into perspective the arguments christians still use from 120 years ago, long, long ago put right by science. The christians lazily don't keep up to date with the research, but then again why would they, what would their motive be, it is counter productive for them. I was astonished at how little i knew or understood about modern human knowledge and also I am staggared at how behind christian denominations can be in their world view regarding biology, physics, chemistry and world history. ButI am acutely aware that included me not that long ago.
Sorry for the waffle x
Snare
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42
BOE: Kaboom to DOs
by pixel into all congregations re: district overseers.
dear brothers:.
march 20, 2014. we are pleased to inform you of a significant decision made by the governing body that will affect the work of traveling overseers worldwide.
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snare&racket
It's 2014 and you can't survive by sofa surfing, cheap suits and free lunches for too long without having dire consequences to your real life. How many young men and women want to sacrifice their future for the status of being a C.O. for a few years?
The older c.o.'s are either too radical or too ill. The young JW's are not interested in living like a well dressed homeless person. This has happened because there simly seems to be not enough C.O.'s.
I know it was starting to be an issue just as I was leaving In 03/04. They were making temporary c.o.'s out of anyone interested, including young couples, some of which had less than exaplary backgrounds (by JW standards) and were simply moved to another part of the country to do it. We had one come by, but my friends (from afar) knew him from youth and it was awkward. This guy didn't have the best reputation when he was younger and he was visibly embarassed to be there as a C.O. With people who knew him. He was not much older than 30 at the time.
What a mess this 'religion' has gotten itself into. Financially struggling members, people leaving in droves, it survives on the baptisms of JW children, too scared to leave. The authoritarian members are dying off and the young are struggling to get by, too busy working to slave for the borg.
Nobody ever said once in my whole JW life, that as the end got nearer they would have to downsize and slow down.... Quite the opposite!
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snare&racket
Seriously!? Another governing no-body!