Posts by snare&racket

149

If you reject the existence of the soul then you are an Animist?

by Seraphim23 in

jw
friends

the classic debate between those who believe that consciousness is merely the result of the operation of the brain, and those who believe that it is apart from the brain, like the idea of a soul or the classic dualistic distinction between mind and body, is a well-known one.. however the thought has occurred that when people try to convince me that the soul cannot be real; soul in the sense of consciousness being a separate thing to the operation of the brain, then really the materialistic non spiritual view is in fact a rehash of animism, strange as that might sound.. animism is the idea that soul, spirit, consciousness, or whatever it might be called, exists in plants, animals, things, objects, places or basically in everything and anything in the material world.

the view of some is that very primitive cultures had this wide category of spiritual belief, which eventually evolved into the all the religions, faiths and spiritualties of today.

some of the faiths of modern times are not defined as animistic because these draw a distinction between soul and body or in modern parlance, consciousness and brain.. so in very ancient times, at the dawn of human spiritual belief, the sun, for example, rising and setting was seen not so much as being caused by the proverbial spaghetti monster but as being the proverbial spaghetti monster.

snare&racket

seraphim, it is very different to say that we cant ascribe consciousness to the brain and.... it is a very difficult thing, to ascribe consciousness to the brain.

It isnt that the brain couldn't do it, or could... it is just knowing how to go about proving it either way to a level of certainty is almost impossible in 2014.

This has led some to assume consciousness is non materialistic because of the problem, but that is just as untrue as me claiming it is purely materialistic... because we cant be sure either way because of the restrictions of testing the theory.

I for one have no issue with the brain having the senses and processing power to have what we consider a conscious thought process. I don't see the big issue in the concept at all, though I do respect the difficulty in proving its mechanism.

I do believe we will see conscious technology, A.I. that will help prove that input and processing can indeed lead to what we would consider conscious.

It is an interesting topic, but you can't make such claims seraphim, neither can the materialists.

As for how I see consciousness seraphim, We have input of vision, hearing, smell, touch and taste.....these are processed and linked together via memories i.e. neurons. We have processing power in the brain that can contemplate these inputs, it seeks patterns and previous experiences which mould our perception, then we have output such as contemplation of the inputs, largely looking for patterns, we have speech, we have movement, we have hormone reactions to the inputs etc. This may be called consciousness by some... I see nothing more than the sum of input, processing and output...so for me I see no need of an external source of anything. So I have no idea why people assume it. But as I made clear, this is almost impossible to prove as we have no means of testing it all ......yet.

27

What if you were a JW during WWII? Would you give in to Hitler and fight?

by Brother Mike in

jw
friends

so i pose this question to everyone.

if you were a jw and lived in germany in wwii, how would you deal with the harsh cruelity of hitler?

would you join his side so you may have a chance to live (meaning you'd serve in the miliatry and be on the front line) or would you keep on serving god and be executed?

snare&racket

good question,

I believe at that time, many were swept up into a mental perspective that seemed right to them despite it being so immoral to the rest of the world. As exJW's we can appreciate that more than most......praying for the destruction of mankind for our little plot of land and good health.

It is comparable also to the invasion of Iraq, or prehaps vietnam. Hitlers acts against the jewish people and alike were atrocious, but neither was napalm or precision bombings of civilians in vietnam/iraq ...moral. Over a million covillians died in the Iraq war, I am sure history will see it as a personal war for bush, a war for oil, for money. How easy was it inn America to say that at the time! How easy to say 'no' as a soldier?

Bradley Manning showed us the horrors of the iraq war and will serve a life in prison for it.

As humankind progresses in morals and wisdom, we can hooe such occurences reduce. But it is far too easy to judge with heindsight, be it germans in WW2 or Americans in Baghdad....

More than likely we would have trumpeted the german politics of the time and joined the army with pride as most did, we all like to think we would be the one that said no, but statistics show that we likely would not have been.

Also as for the JW's the Watchtowers letter to Hitler entitled 'The decleration of facts' makes clear they SUPPORTED what he was doing and did not like the 'commercial jews'. It is a shameful read. The big issue with Watchtower was that they couldnt have their followers taking instruction from someone else, be it hitler or Churchill or Eisenhower. It was about loyalty not ideolagy, Rutherford was a supporter of German Nazi politics.

Snare x

I appreciate they dont all compare exactly and that some will feel I am wrong. I am just saying there are similarities to the mindset of going to war for the wrong reasons.

44

I'm not gay, but

by FL_Panthers in

you ever seen a guy that you thought, " i'm not gay but hey!

i like the cut of his jib"?.

well here's the: blokes i'd like to "yenz" thread.

snare&racket

I have been working too hard for to long... if a cat looks at me in the right way, I consider buying it flowers....

31

Would blood mgmt improvements have been made without firm stand of JW's

by berrygerry in

http://o.canada.com/news/national/blood-transfusions.

thoughts?.

snare&racket

Great point jgnat !

22

Right Wing growth in UK and Europe.

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

anyone else finding it troubling?

anyone feel it represents their views?.

is it being reported in usa/australia etc?.

snare&racket

Think you are dead right KREJAMEs, just wish it wasn't the case, as I feel it is largely fueled by ignorance.

22

Right Wing growth in UK and Europe.

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

anyone else finding it troubling?

anyone feel it represents their views?.

is it being reported in usa/australia etc?.

snare&racket

UKIP are anti Europe and now have the most seats...... It is ridiculous! They have spouted that europe is nothing but a feeding trough and now they are the biggest consumers of the feed,

The most annoying issue, is voters choosing them out of anger and apathy... Votes are powerful, not to be taken lightly.We don't learn from our mistakes very well as humans, the rhetoric and attitude of the right wing is concerning. We know where this leads.

Clegg has so much to answer for.... I am sure he will live in regret, he sold out and got nothing in return. In doing so he has shifted the politics of our country to the left. The green party just can't take enough seats and now WATCH labour and consrvatives shift o the RIGHT for the sake of the votes.

What a mess.

Kate: I have no idea what you mean by that? x Why does my job mean anything? Other than the fact doctors tend to HATE the dail mail....

23

You know, I recently believed that Jesus was a cool guy....

by Muddy Waters in

after leaving the jdub world, for awhile it still seemed like the bible was still a holy book, something valuable, worthy, etc., and that the jw religion had just corrupted it and used it to their own ends.. i thought that jesus was like a bhudda, a guy going around taking about peace and love and who exposed the hypocrisy of the religious leaders.. .

but he also said some hurtful things, harmful things, things like dividing up your family, things like whoever had more affection for their family than for him was not worthy of him, to not take time to bury your father but go preaching instead... to send out his followers without any food for the day but to rely on the kindness of others and believe that that kindness and charity expressed gods blessing and favour.... bah!.

i now believe jesus was just another man, saying both good things and stupid things.

snare&racket

My apologies band, not sure why I assumed you were male.

Apog... we find the charachter distasteful, inconsistancies simply devalue the credit of the stories.

" the gospels were supposed to tell us the kind of things Jesus said and the kind of things he did"

said...like?

"The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows."

"Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine"

did...like?

"behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.” But He [Jesus] answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.” But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

I find this man unpleasant. You can call it an unsophisticated view, or akin to critisizing a poor movie if you wish, it doesn't change the verses that I see and find blatantly simple to intepret.

We will never agree. But it interesting to hear you explain such issues.

23

You know, I recently believed that Jesus was a cool guy....

by Muddy Waters in

after leaving the jdub world, for awhile it still seemed like the bible was still a holy book, something valuable, worthy, etc., and that the jw religion had just corrupted it and used it to their own ends.. i thought that jesus was like a bhudda, a guy going around taking about peace and love and who exposed the hypocrisy of the religious leaders.. .

but he also said some hurtful things, harmful things, things like dividing up your family, things like whoever had more affection for their family than for him was not worthy of him, to not take time to bury your father but go preaching instead... to send out his followers without any food for the day but to rely on the kindness of others and believe that that kindness and charity expressed gods blessing and favour.... bah!.

i now believe jesus was just another man, saying both good things and stupid things.

snare&racket

"I will not accept Jesus as Hitler, evil man. Reading the New Testament requires some level of sophistication."

Yuck.....Band listen to yourself man....

Band you are such a smart, logical guy, then you talk about religion and its like hearing someone else talk.

"The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows."

13

Are the Jehovah's Witnesses rewriting Jehovah's Law regarding Polygamy?

by I_love_Jeff in

watchtower: 9/15/1956 page 572.

"although for a time god permitted the israelites to practice polygamy, yet this was not gods purpose for them, nor did he command them to adopt this practice.".

verses please.

snare&racket

He gave Sarah as a gift of loyalty to Abraham..... how is that not, god condoning polygamy?

Thankfully it is all nonsense. Read the bible story book again.....yuck.

125

Sign of the Time of the End ---> Armagaddon

by Waiting4TheKingdom in

jw
friends

five events to come and to watch for:.

1 world leaders say peace and security!

- they "say" this but may not fully "achieve" this.

snare&racket

Man, can you believe we used to be this nuts too....