Do you know the Polar Bear? As in the Ice Road Trucker? I'm sure one of you do , Canada isn't that big right? Ay?
snare&racket
JoinedPosts by snare&racket
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8
5th anniversary Of Michael Jackson's passing
by designs inperhaps the best known of the celebrity jws and certainly the most controversial with the allegations that followed him to his death.. he was a good song writer and had the best in the music industry at his side.
the incredible quincy jones guided the "thriller" and "bad" albums to phenominal world wide sales.. i knew jws who were in the same kh with him and his mother.
the stories and gossip were fodder in the los angeles area.
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89
99.9% Of a People Who Believe In Evolution Don't Understand It.
by Space Madness ini never believed in evolution as i thought it didn't make sense and that what was proposed was simply impossible.
how could an environment alter an organism's dna?
as we can see however, bacteria cannot become resistance to antibiotics.
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snare&racket
You are welcome x
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89
99.9% Of a People Who Believe In Evolution Don't Understand It.
by Space Madness ini never believed in evolution as i thought it didn't make sense and that what was proposed was simply impossible.
how could an environment alter an organism's dna?
as we can see however, bacteria cannot become resistance to antibiotics.
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snare&racket
SM i have in fact written a paper on the evolution of bacteria, but to steer AWAY from you thinking this is a debate between me and you and back to it being you v the evidence, how about a layman explanation from the journal Nature.
That quote you just added to your last reply (sneaky) does not confirm what you said, once again you have miunderstood the text, see if you can spot the difference now..
You: "If no bacteria is resistant prior to the creation of the antibiotic then all the bacteria would be destroyed"
Your Textbook quote: "antibiotic resistance before exposure to the drug."
Antibiotic Resistance, Mutation Rates and MRSA
By: Leslie Pray, Ph.D. © 2008 Nature Education Citation: Pray, L. (2008) Antibiotic resistance, mutation rates and MRSA.
Suppose another student who had walked into the building just minutes beforehand had left the organism there, after grabbing hold of the same doorknob. Now imagine that you have an open cut on your finger, and some of the bacteria that are on that doorknob get into your wound. Although this seems like a minor event, it could actually have great repercussions for your overall health.
Mutation Rates and Bacterial Growth
Even if only a single S. aureus cell were to make its way into your wound, it would take only 10 generations for that single cell to grow into a colony of more than 1,000 (2 10 = 1,024), and just 10 more generations for it to erupt into a colony of more than 1 million (2 20 = 1,048,576). For a bacterium that divides about every half hour (which is how quickly S. aureus can grow in optimal conditions), that is a lot of bacteria in less than 12 hours. S. aureushas about 2.8 million nucleotide base pairs in its genome. At a rate of, say, 10 -10 mutations per nucleotide base, that amounts to nearly 300 mutations in that population of bacteria within 10 hours!
To better understand the impact of this situation, think of it this way: With a genome size of 2.8 × 10 6 and a mutation rate of 1 mutation per 10 10 base pairs, it would take a single bacterium 30 hours to grow into a population in which every single base pair in the genome will have mutated not once, but 30 times! Thus, any individual mutation that could theoretically occur in the bacteria will have occurred somewhere in that population—in just over a day.
Mutations, Antibiotic Resistance, and Staph Infections
Now, say that a few days after your initial infection with S. aureus, you decide to go to the local health center to have your wound examined. Maybe your finger is not healing as quickly as you had expected. Maybe its red color is a bit worrisome. Maybe the wound is starting to ooze a bit. Maybe you vaguely recall hearing or reading something about some kind of bacterial infection that is popping up on college campuses across the country and landing some students in the hospital. Concerned that your wound might be infected, the physician at the health center decides to prescribe an antibiotic.
Under a best-case scenario, the prescribed antibiotic would kill all of the replicating S. aureus cells in your body, mutant or otherwise, and your wound would quickly heal. After all, the potency of antibiotic treatment is why, when penicillin entered medical care in the 1940s, it was deemed a "miracledrug." Penicillin and other antibiotics have saved countless lives for more than half a century. Under a different scenario, however, any one of those mutations could give your S. aureus infection the ability to resist the particular drug you are being treated with. Luckily, in the real world, usually more than one mutation is required to generate drug resistance, and bacteria cannot double quite so quickly inside a person with a functioning immune system. But the problem still remains: The rapid division of bacterial cells causes them to evolve resistance to most treatments rather quickly.
Thus, although you are on antibiotics and you are otherwise healthy, a total of 600 mutations have accumulated by the time you go to bed that night. Any one of those mutations could give your staph infection the capacity to continue replicating, even in the presence of the antibiotic. All it takes is a single mutated S. aureus—one that, through one of a number of innovative biochemical means, does not die in the presence of whatever antibiotic the physician decided to prescribe—to render that antibiotic useless (at least for this particular infection). Moreover, when that mutant cell replicates, it will pass on its resistant phenotype to its daughter cells, and they to theirs. Thus, a rapidly growing proportion of the replicating bacteria still present in your body will be drug resistant. This is because the drug will kill only those cells that do not have the newly evolved drug-resistance capacity. Thus, the entire bacterial population will eventually become resistant to the prescribed antibiotic. When that happens, your infection will be said to be antibiotic resistant, and your physician will have to prescribe a different drug to combat it.
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89
99.9% Of a People Who Believe In Evolution Don't Understand It.
by Space Madness ini never believed in evolution as i thought it didn't make sense and that what was proposed was simply impossible.
how could an environment alter an organism's dna?
as we can see however, bacteria cannot become resistance to antibiotics.
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snare&racket
Initially the antibiotic works well.... but you have no appreciation for the number of bacteria we are talking about and the biological process. Antibiotics do not work 100% for a start, just as the invention of a gun and bullet did not result in all humans instantly dying or all humans instantly dying whn a bullet is shot.
But, to explain, the longer that the bacteria are exposed to the new antibiotic,it the higher the chance they can survive exposure and evolve reistance. Why? the biggest issue in antibiotic resistance is giving too low a dose or the patient not finishing their prescription, stopping the pills when they feel better, allowing the bacteria to survive and adapt.
This is not just happening via doctors prescriptions, people are putting antibiotics in hand washes, domestic cleaning liquids etc, all exposing the bacteria to the new 'enviroment' without killing it.
I am afraid you are making evident you are part of your 99.9%
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89
99.9% Of a People Who Believe In Evolution Don't Understand It.
by Space Madness ini never believed in evolution as i thought it didn't make sense and that what was proposed was simply impossible.
how could an environment alter an organism's dna?
as we can see however, bacteria cannot become resistance to antibiotics.
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snare&racket
What worries me SM, is this opinion (yours) is coming from someone who ironically does not understand evolution, made clear by your answers.
With that in mind maybe you can see how embarrassing the statistic of 99.9% amended to 99.2% is....
If you have added to the list people who think antibiotics have led to bacterial resistance, YOU ARE IN THE WRONG, they did not evolve the resistence before the exposure to antibiotics. The enviroment selcts the genes, antibiotic use alters the enviroment. You have misunderstood the textbook.
As for my enviroment, I have spent 7 years in higher education amongst students of all degrees. I have spent 10 years debating religion and evolution. The only people I have heard false claims about evolution from, have been those that deny it. The last person being a christian doctor 6 days ago, who, and I quote said "how could a bacteria think to evolve to a higher state, what is it's motive?"
So as useless as anecdotal evidence is (an important thing to remember), my experience has been the complete opposite, those that accept it understand it, those that don't can't define evolution to save their life, bar a few who claim micro and macro evolution are two different things.
The FIRST thing I ask someone who denies evolution is simply...please define evolution. I have never had someone get it right yet.
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89
99.9% Of a People Who Believe In Evolution Don't Understand It.
by Space Madness ini never believed in evolution as i thought it didn't make sense and that what was proposed was simply impossible.
how could an environment alter an organism's dna?
as we can see however, bacteria cannot become resistance to antibiotics.
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snare&racket
SM, then if that is the case why the absurd title....99.9% of evolution believers don't understand it, with that quote added as proof?
This thread makes no sense if you now claim a different opinion. Hence my claim in my second post that this switcharoo is a little deceitful?
also your second answer was wrong: " Antibiotic resistance bacteria already exist prior to the creation of an antibiotic drug."
Nope.... AFTER the drug is introduced. Again YOU DID misunderstand the textbook.
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89
99.9% Of a People Who Believe In Evolution Don't Understand It.
by Space Madness ini never believed in evolution as i thought it didn't make sense and that what was proposed was simply impossible.
how could an environment alter an organism's dna?
as we can see however, bacteria cannot become resistance to antibiotics.
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snare&racket
I apologise for cross wires, it appears your OP is very different to your thoughts now, but I stand by my point, science iliteracy is a huge disadvantage and scientific literacy is a huge protection.
But I go back to my question SM.....who said that? You say that people say 'thinking' and you imply that some believe the dna responds hence your wuote, but I have only heard anti-evolutionists explain it like that. I think the book is referring to misconceptions of anti-evolutionists. Evolution is a very simple process and anyone reading it would not be mistaken so. I have certainly heard NO advocates of evolution misunderstsnd its mechsnisms like that, but most anti-evolutionists have.
I think most people discussing and advocating/defending evolution do understand it.
I have never heard an advocate of evolution use 'thinking' or 'response' or 'dna creates' in their explinations. I only ever hear religious people describing evolution with such straw men explinations.
Though I have heard many people make mistakes in the explinationof the fi er points of evolution, it is to be expected when to study evolution slone is to give three years of your life full time, just to have a basic qualification in the tooic, so those self teaching at home either miscommunjcate what they have learned or on the finer points misunderstand the mechanisms or motoves. Then there is a small number that I have yet to encounter who may not understsnd the theory at all well yet make youtube videos etc, I won't call you a liar but having watched years of videos and documentaries etc I have never seen someone defend evolution with a false understsnding of the basic concept or random mutation followed by natural selection.
The main point again though, is had you and me as a JW sought the real explination for evolution from a scientist or a science book at the first opportunity, we would not have got lost in anti evolutionists claims about evolution which are untrue and lies. Evolution is s very simple theory and anyone hearing it for the first time after years of being told no sense aboy it, ususlly says 'oh of course that happens in nature, but that isn't evolution...'
Though the finer details have changed over time, since Darein the principles of evolution have not altered.
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I Am Celebrating 6 Months' Sobriety Today
by agonus inyay for me!.
please take a minute to visit my blog and leave your comments: benpogge.blogspot.com.
have a good one!.
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snare&racket
Congratulations, firstly for being so open and accepting your battles and secondly for reaching 6 months.
Kudos to you x
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Assembly News Photo
by snare&racket inthis photograph from a news site is a succinct summary of a life in wt's hands....... look at their faces, it says it all.. also, note the watchtower pr machine in action, explaining that it brings 4 million dollars to the location.
(10,000 x 400 dollars) clearly a watchtower statistic, where is the care and interest for members who are struggling so much, with new videos encouraging less career activity, less work commitments, at an all time economic low for our generation.. http://www.standard-freeholder.com/2014/06/15/thousands-attend-watchtower-convention-in-cornwall.
father: "i'm a wt 'yes' man and proud of it!
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snare&racket
Magwitch, we come from all areas of the globe from a multitude of cultures and backgrounds, but how potent the truth about 'the truth' is, when you canso accurately surmise all of our experiences in one pithy paragraph.
Well done, perfect. x
Those words are so true and so powerful, they really are the indicators of how lucky we are to be out of that vicious, life draining cult cycle.
Halleluthor!