wow, this is awesome.
this really shows the jw passiveness towards child sex abusers.
there needs to be more of this exposing this!.
Everyone seems to think the guy in the van is covering his ears.
to me he is clearly avoiding the camera by looking at the door then on turning his head covers it with his hands and puts his head down.
So why would a JW hide?
By their fruits you will know them!
I am so proud to be NO PART of Watchtowers world.
i've heard some weird stories coming from jws about the paranormal.
i know about the warnings about items that come from unbelievers -- those don't interest me as much.
what i am interested in are actual experiences in stories of the paranormal you've heard or experienced yourself.
Questioning your ideas and beliefs is healthy and normal. If it feels scary and wrong, then that is a clue that you have been manipulated. Truth doesn't need protecting, it's impossible to prove the truth false!
Lies and man made propaganda on the other hand......
your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
This thread really needs to go to sleep......
i've heard some weird stories coming from jws about the paranormal.
i know about the warnings about items that come from unbelievers -- those don't interest me as much.
what i am interested in are actual experiences in stories of the paranormal you've heard or experienced yourself.
Sevan, can you stop yourself from doing things you enjoy? Of course. But sometimes you don't and sometimes you do.
So an adult that physically or sexually abuses their child do it for many reasons, but they won't do it in public because of the consequences. So there is choice involved. Don't misunderstand that with a gap between want and decision, to squeeze evil on however,
An alcoholic will drink themselves despite severe consequences due to the chemical/ emotional reward. However they will choose not to break open a bottle of vodka in front of the family /friends or for e.g. at work. So here is another example of dependence, behaviour that leads to harm, an inappropriate reward mechanism.....yet the ability to decide not to do it. Nobody would induce evil in the process.
There are interesting papers and research on evil. True evil in psychology is when a healthy mind, healthy nurtured person inexplicably does terrible acts without obvious explanation and the research papers struggle to identify such a person. I remember one paper referencing Ted Bundy (? I think) an American academic, serial murderer. He was a well nurtured man with intelligence and supposedly great charisma and charm. However he stated he had been addicted to horrendous pornography which planted terrible ideas. So he possibly rewired his reward response and fed it further because of tolerance (less response over time) with worse and worse thoughts and ideas, entangled with a very powerful human driver and reward, sex. We do not have the means to know these things for sure yet. But there is certainly no gap or evidence for inducing an ethereal "evil" into the mix, therefore necessitating demons and Devils which is far from the most logical and likely explanation in the first place.
May I just humbly ask you something I wrestled with when I let go of my belief. I read the bible around 5 times and I visualised God and the biblical story and contemplated much of it chronologically. We can't imagine God as an entity, but rewind back to a 'time' or state when there was just God. God created everything, if you accept the bible version of evil. It is more than a concept it's a thing, the opposite to good. Well you have to accept that god created evil and you will never be able to explain away how an all loving personification of goodness could do that. Evil wasn't simply formed when Adam ate the apple as Satan already existed. Likewise It is non biblical and non theological to state Satan had the means to create evil or create anything.
Another example, cancer is a complex and fundamentally essential part of life, the same process that gives us cancer, gives us genetic diversity. Who created that process? The bible indicates it was a punishment from god for disobedience. Even if you believe Satan CHOSE to be evil and Adam CHOSE a path that led to imperfection and cancers... If you accept the bible,you have to accept God created illness, disease, cancer.... And evil.
The idea that humans are becoming less perfect and more evil and more diseased simply doesn't fit the bible or data and again, humans didn't create this imperfection as a punishment or the evil ......the God did.
So even if you want to make an argument for the existence of Evil, the source of it according to the bible ...is the Jude's-Christian God...... Not spirits/Satan.... They were not able to create anything.
Snare X
(The absence of good is not the same as evil in my opinion, just as the absence of love is not hate, so more effort is required in demonstrating evil exists)
i've heard some weird stories coming from jws about the paranormal.
i know about the warnings about items that come from unbelievers -- those don't interest me as much.
what i am interested in are actual experiences in stories of the paranormal you've heard or experienced yourself.
"I want to believe in a...."
and this is why you have bias over the explanation.
The lion analogy was to explain away violence and war.
To want to perform cruelty and torture from one human to another is by itself an indication of a broken and unwell mind. There is no missing answers. A human is getting chemical reward by harming another, that is a physical release of a reward mechanism. That's either anatomical or learned. Mothers harm children for attention/affection from others. Some do it to feel empowered because they have been raised to feel wesk. You can't compare two humans from the same background and when one does bad things state it is evil. No two humans have the exact same physical makeup. Likewise no two humans have the same experience in life.
Why evoke a mysterious thing called 'evil' that isnt even a real physical thing?
your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
Hadriel,
Pick up some books on abiogenesis, If you disagree with modern science and data that's up to you. If you choose to take an ancient Judeo Christian text found on desert scrolls as a superior source, then go for it. But it's the unqualified us and our opinion is hot air. The facts are driving the theories of today and if you don't believe us here on this forum when we explain why we believe in evolution etc ......then you don't believe us... So go read yourself, or don't.
Peolle that have researched themselves only have their own motive to question. Go look at the data yourself. It's laborious, difficult and takes years to appreciate, but the pursuit of truth is not convenient from my experience.
i've heard some weird stories coming from jws about the paranormal.
i know about the warnings about items that come from unbelievers -- those don't interest me as much.
what i am interested in are actual experiences in stories of the paranormal you've heard or experienced yourself.
Demons and Satan are lazy explanations. Researching serotonin levels and acute psychosis has taken humans thousands of years and is difficult,
Attributing rainbows when it rains to to a god promising the world they wouldn't flood the earth again is an easy and lazy answer, knowing how protons and light reacts while passing through water is complex and difficult to work out.
Just because an answer is easy doesn't make it right. Just because a demon is an easier explanation than epilepsy is a dangerous and primitive assumption.
Person A has more cortisol and adrenaline produced under stress than Person B and is therefore more prone to violence..... Or there is a devil and person A is evil.
i've heard some weird stories coming from jws about the paranormal.
i know about the warnings about items that come from unbelievers -- those don't interest me as much.
what i am interested in are actual experiences in stories of the paranormal you've heard or experienced yourself.
Sevan,
The question about evil....
Do you call it evil when a Lion takes down a gazelle? What about if one lion pride fights another? Why assume that with humans there is an extra invented element called 'evil'? The world is a safer, happier, healthier, wealthier place as civilisation improves and progresses. I bet you can't pick one year from history you would rather live in !
Illness and disease sucks but it is part of biological life. Is the survivability of bacteria evil? Is it evil when a kid gets a bacterial infection? It's just the natural world and every organism seeking to survive over another. It's a harsh world but we can explain away why. To introduce evil you need to explain it and prove it exists and then you have to prove that the best suggestion for why it is here ......is a horned red dude called Satan from Jewish myth.
Take another look at the world and try to find evil..... I see selfishness, I see people doing things for their own good, I see mentally damaged people not appreciating normal social rules usually because they were harmed too or clinically unwell for physical reasons. I sincerely don't see evil in the world anymore. If there are good, healthy and unscarred people out there that do awful heinous acts for no other reason that to do bad... I sincerely haven't seen that yet,
your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.
k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.
in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.
Hadriel,
why are you doubting that answers will come? Do you believe in God? If you do, is it a coincidence that the specific area of science you feel we will be lacking in your lifetime is a region used by many to put God in the gap? Is it not just a very complex part of modern science? Abiogenesis is a huge and complex topic, have you read the literature and textbooks on it? Because we know much.
Abiogenesis and evolution are very different things we shouldn't be talking about it here. But the start of life abiogenesis is a huge and exciting field. I don't know why you assume we won't find answers, why do you state that? please don't go and look for research, please give your honest answer for why YOU when you said it felt that way.
i personally obviously likewise don't have all the answers, but I was very excited by Craig Ventnors work, his,latest being fascinating ( see below) ...but interesting to me with a JW past was to read of the work on artificial life. When the Lego pieces of life clip together the cells become alive and start to work. No god involved. No magic breath of life. No Frankenstein pulling of a switch. It's machinery.
http://www.nature.com/news/minimal-cell-raises-stakes-in-race-to-harness-synthetic-life-1.19633
a thought struck me.
as young children we were known for often asking the question "but why?
" to anything and everything that we were told and presented with in life.
As a JW I was always told I "thought to much" and that I was "overthinking things" and that it was ok to have questions but that they were a waste of time as we already had the answers and faith in the GB was the only important thing.
NEVER since leaving has anyone said I over thought or asked too many questions and that's despite 10yrs of academia. The very opposite is the way to get answers.
The JW's offer a lazy life solution, do as they say, do what they say, do it when they say it... and in exchange they will do all the thinking for you, In reality this is what ended my JW life as this just wasn't good enough for me. 11 window cleaners in Brooklyn really didn't know better,
