Posts by snare&racket

i've read the walsh trial that indicates the societies stance of ' unity at all costs, even if we're wrong ' but that sounds more like conformity to me.

so how do other religions or movements justify the range of beliefs within their respective movements?

for example, the born again movement, a massive range of beliefs, but they don't insist on conformity.

snare&racket

Firstly, welcome to the forum.... and great name!

I have friends who are muslims (shia and sunni), evangelical, catholic, protestant, buddhist.... and all will claim that they can believe what they want. Hell, I have even had JW's claim it.

In some cases it is true. My muslim friend has come to accept evolution and has found a verse that he can construe to make it possible and he now ignores the ones that overtly contradict it. In my same year group is a muslim who denies evolution vehemently and believes that 6000 years ago humans were a few hundred feet tall (don't ask).

The reality is, the muslims would defend each other for their religious identity, to the death. They see what they share in common over what they conflict on. That being said, they are shia muslims and are in serious conflict with the sunni muslims, some of which I am also friendly with. It is truly bizzare. but it is the same with all the other belief systems. If you look at JW's they claim concrete solidarity and unity, but having visited congs all over the world, the views on many things change wildly. In fact you can travel from one congregation to another next door and see a huge difference in atmosphere and to what is acceptable and what is not. Much comes down to the personality of the elders in the local hall. Even doctrines change in JW's by region. In Australia, a discussion on fossils and dinosaurs will lead to comments about demons burying them to test our faith, something I found truly shocking. Enough people said it and agreed that it was not just one persons opinion in one cong.

An analogy that comes to mind for all these people is that of a mouse in a maze. A mouse in a maze will claim he has freedom, he can turn left or right. But in reality he is not free, he is restricted to the constructs of the maze, constructs and rstraints laid down by others. Real freedom allows left right, forwards, backwards, up, down, diagonal etc etc. Freedom is about perspective. A man imprisoned in a room for 20 years may feel free if allowed to walk in a yard For a few hours a week.

Coming back to conformity and unity. These mice may be able to turn left or right, but they share the same maze, so they are in that sense united, but not in freedom. The punishment for apostacy or blasphemy in islam is death, apostacy including the desicion to leave the maze.

As for the many sects of christianity including JW's, some are more sympathetic to personal freedoms than others, but in reality there is a shared framework or tolernces and beliefs, they all use the bible after all. Some will deny verses without a blink of an eye, declaring them simply wrong, some will die for that verse, just as one mouse turns left, another right. But a free man, in my opinion, doesn't even know the verse exists ;)

snare

153

One aspect of evolution that does not make sense.....

by EndofMysteries in

the part that does make sense are how bodies adapt over time to surroundings and use.

for example because of eating habits changing, our jaws have become smaller and we don't need wisdom teeth.

or the effect of the sun on our skin, etc.

snare&racket

The book I mentioned is a textbook, which may seem like an odd suggestion, however they are designed to be read to form an understanding from scratch. Also textbooks are updated in edition according to the latest research.

importanlty textbooks provide you with the whole picture, Evolution as a theory by itself requires much study and many years learning. A textbook will give you a summary of what we currently know in genetics, zoology, cell biology, and abiogenesis. It will take effort, but answer all your questions Before you can think to ask them as we have been asking the questions for 150 years now.

I found secular books by biologists and alike very good, but they assume a certain level of education. I came to this issue as a JW and didn't even know what science was, at age 26. I didn't know who scientists were and what they did. That textbook changed my life, so that is why I always mention it. You can get an older edition for about $20 or £15. That will suffice. Once you have the foundation knowledge, you can educate yourself on the recent developments.

Just to lastly clarify how a textbook is developed. Research is done by a scientist, they write a paper with the results, the scientific community peer review the findings, repeat the experiments, add to them etc. on rare occasions if there is fault found, they are redacted. Every 5 years or so, the science publishing industry collate all the data and publish it in the form of a textbook. Hence, we are encouraged to not use data or textbooks more than ten years old. I am currently on a cardiology ward and A+E, the lectures we had on managing many cardiology scenarios 2years ago are already out of date, with new research, new guidelines and new protocols in place. Maybe this will help put into perspective the arguments christians still use from 120 years ago, long, long ago put right by science. The christians lazily don't keep up to date with the research, but then again why would they, what would their motive be, it is counter productive for them. I was astonished at how little i knew or understood about modern human knowledge and also I am staggared at how behind christian denominations can be in their world view regarding biology, physics, chemistry and world history. ButI am acutely aware that included me not that long ago.

Sorry for the waffle x

Snare

42

BOE: Kaboom to DOs

by pixel in

to all congregations re: district overseers.

dear brothers:.

march 20, 2014. we are pleased to inform you of a significant decision made by the governing body that will affect the work of traveling overseers worldwide.

snare&racket

It's 2014 and you can't survive by sofa surfing, cheap suits and free lunches for too long without having dire consequences to your real life. How many young men and women want to sacrifice their future for the status of being a C.O. for a few years?

The older c.o.'s are either too radical or too ill. The young JW's are not interested in living like a well dressed homeless person. This has happened because there simly seems to be not enough C.O.'s.

I know it was starting to be an issue just as I was leaving In 03/04. They were making temporary c.o.'s out of anyone interested, including young couples, some of which had less than exaplary backgrounds (by JW standards) and were simply moved to another part of the country to do it. We had one come by, but my friends (from afar) knew him from youth and it was awkward. This guy didn't have the best reputation when he was younger and he was visibly embarassed to be there as a C.O. With people who knew him. He was not much older than 30 at the time.

What a mess this 'religion' has gotten itself into. Financially struggling members, people leaving in droves, it survives on the baptisms of JW children, too scared to leave. The authoritarian members are dying off and the young are struggling to get by, too busy working to slave for the borg.

Nobody ever said once in my whole JW life, that as the end got nearer they would have to downsize and slow down.... Quite the opposite!

25

Fred Phelps is dead

by zound in

jw
friends

two cults leaders in two days..

snare&racket

Seriously!? Another governing no-body!

25

Fred Phelps is dead

by zound in

jw
friends

two cults leaders in two days..

snare&racket

A sad, self tormented man who inflicted his detachment from society and its perspective, onto his children. Many here have experienced that inherited sadness and JW detachment from 'the world' too. It is nothing to celebrate, rather it is a shame he did not find heart, or society, before he passed. Let's hope his family do. Whenever a prophetic leader dies, the doctrine has to change, new light in dark times, it is a good time for seeds of doubt to be planted, lets hope the Phelps family soil is fertile.

snare x

58

Troubling experience at 1 day assembly re: little jw child

by williamhconley in

just had my 1day assembly this weekend.

an experience given by the bethel speaker was quite troubling and shows how jw's live in constant paranoia, anxiety and they isolate themselves from normal living.. a first grade class was having a fire drill.

everyone ( except one) lined up and stood outside away fron the classroom in the grass.

snare&racket

Jesus H Christ..... That was not funny! That is a window into childhood brainwashing right there. They even short circuited the pavlovian fire bell responses!

In honesty i don't believe the story for a second, just another made up story... Useful to make a point in a talk.

Snare

(some names have been changed, also we made this shit up)

81

The Birth of the Universe - Scientific Breakthrough

by cofty in

researchers working with a telescope at the south pole beleive they have glimpsed light from the first "trillionth of a trillionth of a tillionth" of a second after the big bang.. a lot of work has still to be done to confirm the findings, but if it holds up it is one of the biggest discoveries ever.. _________________________________________.

...inflation came with a very specific prediction - that it would be associated with waves of gravitational energy, and that these ripples in the fabric of space would leave an indelible mark on the oldest light in the sky - the famous cosmic microwave background.. the bicep2 team says it has now identified that signal.

scientists call it b-mode polarisation.

snare&racket

Now THIS is spiritual....... reality is infinitely more beautiful and awe inspiring than any myth I swallowed as a kid.

101

The Last BOE!

by Atlantis in

this is the last boe we will be able to provide.

our informant or source, was caught, disfellowshipped, and thrown out of bethel.

we knew that sooner or later the watchtower would find him out.

snare&racket

Celebrate and respect this man for doing this, he knew the consequences was doubtless scared, yet did the right thing. What a hero. Thank you BOE dude Xxx