BBC News website has this linked on front page.
snare&racket
JoinedPosts by snare&racket
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34
BBC News "The ex-Jehovah's Witnesses shunned by their families"
by snare&racket inbbc news website has this linked on front page.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40704990.
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42
To Fade or Disassociate
by Jules Saturn inhello to all, so i did want to talk about this topic because i think it is very important to me.
i have a grandfather who faded several decades ago.
he occasionally attends an assembly and the memorial but no longer attends meetings or goes on field service.
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snare&racket
I spent many years pondering this.
My decision came on a very simple realisation; disfellowship, disassociate, or to be marked ... these are JW terminology, they are all JW doctrine, they are all part of the rules and regulations within the JW game.
I refuse to play along with their game anymore. To disassociate is to legitimise their rules, processes, doctrines....
It's all insignificant playground BS.... so just wipe it off your shoes and walk away.
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48
"You're going to die in Armageddon"
by Jules Saturn ini'm sure i am not the only one to have heard this come out of the mouths of my loved ones.
it's a very painful thing to hear, especially when it comes from the people like your own parents/family.
even after i've been told that, they would say "we'll just continue life without you.
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snare&racket
Ironically....
i had this discussion and I said... if there is a god who personifies love I have no doubt that I will be fine at Armageddon because I know my heart, my motives and how I live my life. I said, if my own family wouldn't think I deserved death then how could a just god?
This had an unusual reaction, my sibling very angrily said... "but if I spend decades going to meetings and in the ministry and you don't, that wouldn't be fair for you to survive Armageddon!"
This says it all...
He immediately realised what he said, it wasn't about sovereignty, love, justice, it was actually very unloving, judgmental and illogical.
i also reasoned that I no longer feel comfortable at the idea of everyone on earth perishing and that I would be opposed to a person/leader/God that did it. I explained that I no longer wish to have a wooden cabin in paradise at the cost of billions of people now living dying.
Beautiful cabins in the woods as per WT propaganda, exist now and if I want one that badly I can earn it NOW by working hard. To daily pray that those people who own that land now die so I can go build my own cabin there for free ...would now shame me. I remember JW's regularly picking out the nice houses in the local community that they wanted to one day steal after everyone dies at Armageddon.... how shameful.
Who wants to survive a global genocide on the side of the killer?
Why would they support and pray for a genocide just because they fear being part of it?
Why would a global genocide be appropriate just because a deity says so?
As Hitchens said of the God that would ask you to kill your ownly son on a mountain ... you don't bind him, take him up the hill and sharpen the knives... you tell the God to F Off and Suffer the consequence! ...... any alternate response is that of an unfit parent or human.
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31
Hello
by Jules Saturn inhello, i've been lurking for quite some time here on this forum, reading a whole lot and i've finally made the courage to create an account as a form of escape and in hopes to be understood and not feel "mentally diseased".
little background on me, i am a born in but i consider myself a pimo (physically in mentally out).
i feel like i've always had doubts but these doubts would sink with the meetings and the assemblies and every other little thing that drowns any doubts a witness may have.
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snare&racket
Well done for being so brace, never forget you are in the right.... the brainwashed crowd you are swimming out of are in the wrong. They are forbidden to even ask questions, admit their doubts... that's unnatural and dishonest. Truth never needs protecting, it will protect itself. It's good to hear you are likewise now protecting your mind, heart and future! ❤️
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ET phones home
by Coded Logic ina nearby star, ross 128, about 11 light years away, seems to be putting out some rather remarkable radio waves.
discovered by the arecibo observatory in puerto rico (the one shown in the move contact) other observatories like the allen telescope array are set to begin observations in the next couple of days to make sure the signal really is coming from interstellar space and isn't caused by instrument malfunction or radio waves bouncing off satellites.
it could be anything at this point (but very-very unlikely aliens).
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snare&racket
"It now seems clear that the Arecibo detections were due to transmissions from Earth satellites in geosynchronous orbit. Ross 128 has a declination (which is comparable to latitude) of close to 0 degrees, which places it in the thick of a phalanx of these satellites. It was telemetry from these satellites, and not extraterrestrials, which accounts for the signals. "
SETI
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46
10 years on.....
by snare&racket ini was a window cleaner, i was at the time unemployed, homeless.
i had no education to be proud of (high school one a two b's rest c's) i was a jehovahs witness.
i had been a pioneer.
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snare&racket
Thank you for all the kind words. For those that think they are beyond turning their life around, medical schools accept students right into their 40's. I didn't graduate until early 30's. Don't hold off because of age, no matter what you want to do with your......life after watchtower.
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44
Verifiable proof of Jesus' existance outside the Bible
by unsure inthought i'd start a separate discussion on the subject.. those who know me know i'm struggling with faith; i want to believe, some days i do but it becomes difficult.. many believers say there is verifiable proof of jesus' existence outside of the bible.. please post this proof..
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snare&racket
Jonestown massacre....
Belief and the willingness to die for it means sweet FA.
You will find truth in evidence and evidence alone. Sometimes the current truth is only to say we can't yet know.
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46
10 years on.....
by snare&racket ini was a window cleaner, i was at the time unemployed, homeless.
i had no education to be proud of (high school one a two b's rest c's) i was a jehovahs witness.
i had been a pioneer.
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snare&racket
Toes up,
I had a presiding overseer as a patient once. I was shocked at the change in dynamics. This was someone I feared, respected, held high, as a youth. Here he was, a spiritually confused, conflicted man. I could see his bemusement at me, I had left and yet I was successful at life, to the point where here he was seeking my care and knowledge. At one time he had all the answers. In his greatest time of need he had few too many. At one point he gave a plea to the life of the JW's and momentum of the organisation, but even as the words were coming out of his mouth, the new social dynamics just diluted what he had intended to proclaim proudly..... to a weak sales hype and empty rhetoric. It was palpable to us both. Maybe once upon a time, hearing that a religion had a brand new website and app for an iPad may have convinced me it was special. Now, it just seemed sad and a little pathetic. The sadness came from HIS evident realisation mid sentence that this really wasn't the amazing golden, shining flash of evidence that indicated gods favour on the JW's that perhaps he thought it was prior to voicing it to someone now outside that biased world. He wasn't an unintelligent man and it was an interesting encounter. I have no doubt it didn't alter his views one bit. Hence I left and he did not.
It was very sad and eye opening. I was incredibly respectful and never once replied, or discussed any element of the JW's. It was my turn to politely smile and shepherd him to health and I did so professionally.
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46
10 years on.....
by snare&racket ini was a window cleaner, i was at the time unemployed, homeless.
i had no education to be proud of (high school one a two b's rest c's) i was a jehovahs witness.
i had been a pioneer.
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snare&racket
I was a window cleaner, I was at the time unemployed, homeless. I had no education to be proud of (High school one A two B's rest C's) I was a Jehovahs Witness. I had been a pioneer. I had done much with the RBC for a good 6 years. I had been a bethelite.
So it was about this time 10 years ago that I asked to speak to my presiding overseer. 2 hours of theological concerns , crazy old doctrines, historical revisionism, sincere questions on following men who had been so wrong so often and never once right.....and the final nail in the coffin in our conversation....evidence that WT had been the majority owners of a military company called Rand Cam, a near silent rotary Diesel engine, developed with naval sponsoring.
The conversation began with "maybe Jehovah is going to use you and what you have discovered to 'clean house'" within an hour it had reached "you can't attend meetings and have these questions." The next day my closest friend at the time was told he couldn't be married in a KH if I was the best man (2wks later) ..... within a week friends were reporting back to me that they had been advised to stay away from me. Next it was that I was bitter with god/ looking for excuses/ gay and therefore would soon leave.
Most knew I had signed up to night classes and college. The last meeting I went to (I attended until I left for college) an elder mocked me for wanting to become a doctor. He had a huge sarcastic smile and asked if I really felt there would be a need for a doctors if I believed in God and paradise. I kept my thoughts to myself, smiled with sincere sadness in my heart for him and walked away. This was my last JW encounter at my KH. ( By the way my thoughts were that he was hedging his bets thinking that there would be a need for double glazing salesmen in 'paradise'... I also hoped that the irony of the universe never left him or his family needing my profession.)
It took about 5 years of studying the bible, world history, religious history, science, evolution, physics ....all in my own time before I felt comfortable with my world view. We don't know! As for morality, what's best for the group is best for the individual and by being good and at best contributing good back to society we are being moral. (I know, I know..what is good?...another day people!). If we work hard and are very fortunate me may contribute to developing humanity in some way can't think of a better life spent. A life of servitude and obeisance to a jealous, wrathful, genocidal, attention seeking deity..... was no longer for me. Neither was a life of ignoring myself, my heart, my mind in ignorant obedience of several uneducated, backward men in Brooklyn I would never even get to meet.
I honestly spent sleepless nights wondering where I would be now, 10 years on...
I feel secure in my worldview,
I have never lived so honestly, living true to myself and my feelings.
I live free of needless, unhealthy guilt.
I live free to ask, to seek answer and most beautifully....
I live a life where it's ok to say "We don't know."
I have a healthy group of real friends.
I have a wonderful relationship with an amazing girl 😍
I feel fulfilled.
I feel I'm no longer wasting my life.
I'm a qualified doctor, currently A&E/ER doctor and about to be an ICU doctor.
Im respected and appreciated.
I have actually saved people's lives.
i have made some people's lives better.
I'm happy ☺️
Ten years on..... I have no regrets! None! Zero! I do not think for even a shred of a moment that I left any 'truth' behind in the witnesses. It is a dangerous mind altering belief system that dilutes your cognitive ability to reason. It denied so much knowledge and resource and pours into that gap worthless, bias, uneducated opinion. It is VALUELESS.
I made many wonderful friends who were deeply religious. In the outside world it is so evident that beautiful, friendly, loving, happy, charitable people exist everywhere! The JW's not only do not have the monopoly on being good, moral, happy people...... you soon realise why they hate the phrase "nicer/happier/friendlier than a lot of brothers and sisters" ....because it doesn't take long to see how unhappy, judgmental, conditional relationships with JW's are. They are a lovely people, but they are stressed, tired, guilty, uneducated, struggling and constantly feeling unworthy all the while trying to ignore that desire to read/research/delve into their inner beings real doubts and questions.
Please don't be offended by my reference to uneducated. A small minority of JW's are educated. But we all know higher education was heavily frowned upon. A 2009 PEW study of religious groups had JW's as the poorest and least educated! Nobody wants to be considered uneducated .... it doesn't however mean unintelligent! There is huge potential in most JW's for sooooooo much. They just fear what they will lose and so choose pioneer over Princeton!
How sad that JW's and even Ex JW's often get offended at this issue, most would never deny that education was in reality frowned upon and that most declined it and yet .....who would honestly deny that education in any form when worked hard with is anything less than awe inspiring, amazing and life changing, I find it so sad that many I grew up with and still love were and are denied such stunning truths about life, the universe and importantly, developing the tool kit to decipher truth. Worse than this they get angry at the perceived insult of being 'uneducated'......It's not an insult, it was a human right denied to us!
I lost a lot, but you soon realise the value of what is only available to you with condition that you give up your heart, mind, freedom and life,
So please, if you are now waking up....if you have children.... if you have loved ones... GET OUT.
Most of my family ten years on are out.
For the sake of any children wasting years and years to a cult.... just go. For your sake....just go!
There is NOTHING to be gained by staying, you are just prolonging contact with a toxic belief system and spending minutes, hours, days, months, years..... you will NEVER see again.
Leave.........who knows where you will be in 10 years time?
(P.s. I left that meeting with my PO so relieved and smiling. I remember this yet I remember being shocked that I was happy and not scared.....however there was now no more confusion. No more internal conflict! The elders did not fall to their knees in shock or surprise at my questions and evidence, they didn't beg me to stay whilst we all researched and prayed.... they asked me to leave! .... how could it be the truth?... 25 years of wondering came to a crescendo and ....I found myself smiling... because now I knew... it couldn't be true! I saw behind the curtain and I was asked to leave.)
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Isis and failed prophecy
by snare&racket inhi everybody, hope you are all well!
i read this today and thought of the jw's and you guys.. it's an article from today's paper about isis and a recent victory over the town of dabiq.
isis have long claimed that this will be the city where good will face evil i.e islam v christianity/western powers.
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snare&racket
Hi everybody, hope you are all well!
I read this today and thought of the JW's and you guys.
It's an article from today's paper about Isis and a recent victory over the town of Dabiq. Isis have long claimed that this will be the city where good will face evil I.e Islam v Christianity/western powers. It's one of the first cities they took and even named their monthly magazine Dabiq. This was the capital of the caliphate from where the war of good and evil would be fought. The war came....and they lost. Also it was not the west fighting them but the same Sunni muslims they claim to be a part of. Now the city was recaptured they have .....cough....'new light'... and have adjusted their prophecy. It seems so ridiculous and transparent and human and BS when you read that this happens and yet I'm instantly reminded that I accepted the adjustment of 'prophecy' and 'interpretation' for most of my adult life. Face palm indeed!
"But Dabiq was recaptured by Sunni militants. The expulsion of Isis from the town was an opportunity to deal its propaganda a double blow, not just because of the failed prophecy but that it was defeated by the very population that Isis claims to represent, on whose behalf it is fighting the world. Isis quickly revised the Dabiq prophecy, saying it still applied but its time had not yet come. Isis moved the goalposts, figuratively as well as literally – fleeing fighters reportedly removed the town name’s signs and took them away."
I bet the governing body would applaud that tactical genius of 'new light'.... when the religious war of all wars doesn't happen how and where you said it would..... steal the city signposts and run away with them.