outsmartthesystem

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Posts by outsmartthesystem

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  39

  Combatting Mind Control by Steve Hassan - with WT References

  by ithinkisee in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  (4) emotional control.

  behavior control

  emotional control

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  outsmartthesystem

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  93

  What's The Biggest Difference In Today's JWs And The Witnesses From Decades Ago?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i believe today's witnesses lack zeal, resolve, "love" of the "truth"......just to name a few things.. years ago, witnesses were excited to knock on doors and tell people they were gonna die if they didn't accept paradise.. now, when you see jws in service, they all look zombied out.. it's a slowly dying religion that will last probably forever like an ancient rotted out tree..

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  outsmartthesystem

  The people are miserable. They aren't the "happiest people on earth" anymore.

  Yet every witness....will inexplicably SAY that they are indeed happy. That is how they are SUPPOSED to feel so they convince themselves that they are happy being poor.....living in a crappy govt subsidized apartment.....being uneducated......and dealing with the constant stress that is heaped upon them by the borg
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  19

  Doctrine or HIgh Mind Control as the Last Straw

  by Band on the Run in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am curious as to whether the final gut deciding factor to leave was inappropriate doctrine or the overly intrusive control of the wt.

  reading the bible normally opened my eyes.

  i was born-in and never suspected that they were skewing the bible in such a ridiculous manner or misquoting secular sources.

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  outsmartthesystem

  I didn't even realize that I was mind controlled until I satisfied my thirst for explanations on 607/1914/1919. Once I realized there was no substance there....it freed me to begin looking in other areas. Eventually I started studying the psychology of being a witness and I realized how controlled I was. So it was doctrine that paved the way for me to even begin to notice that I was in a cult
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  93

  What's The Biggest Difference In Today's JWs And The Witnesses From Decades Ago?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i believe today's witnesses lack zeal, resolve, "love" of the "truth"......just to name a few things.. years ago, witnesses were excited to knock on doors and tell people they were gonna die if they didn't accept paradise.. now, when you see jws in service, they all look zombied out.. it's a slowly dying religion that will last probably forever like an ancient rotted out tree..

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  outsmartthesystem

  "It's a slowly dying religion that will last probably forever like an ancient rotted out tree."

  Spot on my friend. Spot on. Decades ago we had a real zeal because explanations at least truly seemed to make sense. We didn't know the day or hour....but my God......70 or 80 years from 1914 narrows it down quite a lot. We had a true purpose.

  I think that since the generation debacle of 17 years ago.......the new generation (no pun intended) of witnesses lacks that zeal you talked about. I think that deep down in their hearts....a LOT of witnesses realize that the GB is shooting from the hip with no real aim. But because of mind control they simply go on believing. What other choice is there for them? Throw away a lifetime of cherished beliefs?

  I liken it to being on a deserted island. Decades ago....the brothers were marching up and down the sand....setting off flares and smoke signals.....staying up all night to do so because of how confident they were that they were going to see a ship on the horizon. Now....the brothers are kind of huddled in a cave.....doing what they need to do to survive......holding out hope that a ship may come some day.....putting a smile on their faces to encourage others....but in their hearts....they fear that they will never leave this cave.
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  19

  Last weekends assembly low-lights in Newburgh, ny

  by Silent_Scream in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  1) on saturday's last talk by the do, he made a cool illustration.

  he said "imagine my wife found a picture of another woman in my wallet.

  and when she approaches my about it, i say 'oh, thats only because she reminds me of you.

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  outsmartthesystem

  Metatron - That is exactly the point. If there really was a Big A on the horizon......everybody already knows there is nothing anyone can do to delay it. What teh "good" brother did was make a baseless accusation. The "bad" brother never insinuated that the GB was delaying armagedon. All he did was display a question...or perhaps doubt. For all we know....he questions whether the Big A is coming in his life time. Maybe he questions if it is coming at all. Maybe he questions if it is "the truth" since the GB has been wrong so many times. We don't know. All we know is that he started to express a lack of faith in the latest interpretation of the GB....and the "good" brother quickly silenced his thought process by making the above noted accusation.

  It is a classic straw man argument. The real argument was replaced with "how dare you think that the GB is delaying armageddon". The audience doesn't even realize that the argument being attacked by the "good" brother isn't even the real argument that was brought up by the "bad' brother. The "good" brother successfully attacks his own fabricated argument.....thus leaving the "bad" brother (and those in the audience) feeling remorsefull that his attitude could even have possibly been construed as being judgmental of the glorious GB. And just like that, the defense of a slyly self fabricated argument stops the other individual's critical thinking in its tracks.

  The GB can't successfully answer the REAL question.....which is...."why do beliefs keep changing"? or "why have past prophecies not come true?" Therefore they have to create their own argument and then successfully defeat it....with the end product of "don't question the practices, motives or teachings of the GB" being driven home.

  I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think that they believe they still somehow....someway are God's organization. IF they have to create their own arguments to defeat then so be it. If they have to quote out of context then so be it. If they have to cover over their history then so be it. The "fact" that they are God's organization makes all "small imperfections" trivial. They have Roger Clemens syndrome. Just like he truly believes at this point in his life that he never did steroids.......they believe...through all the bullshit....that God is still directing them.
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  131

  Stephen Hawkings and Richard Dawkins attend the Jehovah's witnesses two-day assembly program at London Edgware assembly hall

  by mankkeli in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-15834523.

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  outsmartthesystem

  Quotes from Mankkeli

  
  "Ask yourself, What kind of Life do reknowned atheist like Richard dawkins led?, read up on his personal life on wikipedia, He couldnt even keep a marriage responsibly."

  "ife is too short- You need to remind yourself that Stephen Hassan would use all techniques at his disposal to diagnose your situation and come up with a syndrome that will make you rely on him. Stephen pays his bills by convincing you that you are in a cult, so that you can buy his books and keep his business running. I'm not attacking him neither I am underminning his effort, I am only explainning the reality in clear terms."

  "cedars- After several months on apostate website and masterminding an ostentatious survey, It is not a surprise that you couldnt catch up with the meetings again. Now this is what you should do, go and speak with one of the elders in your congregation, tell them all you have done n this forum and other things you have secretly involved in and let them grease you with prayer. This is the only medium to have peace with God and renew your relationship with him, by this your conscience can be free and you can regain that stable mind where the holy spirit can freely flow"

  "OUTLAW - Dont be confused, I am not the typical JW you have ever met in your whole life, I am very balance. Actively involved in promoting kingdom interest while actively supporting those who have been demonised by the organisation. All in all, I am a model JW, the kind many would like to imitate."

  "OUTLAW - I'm hanging out everywhere, While being active here, I'm equally active with spiritual matters both in the congregation, in the circuit and temporary assistance at the branch office. Even, the last apostafest in Stockhom was arranged by me. This may be difficult for you and million others to fathom but that is exactly how the perfectly act of love is demonstrated. Maintainng proper balance in life is what many have lost out and that is what I completely represent. Learn from it."

  "Even Raymond franz a guru apostate wondered till death on the reason for the high surge of baptismal candidate. His confusion led to the complications of his sickness which later resulted in his death."

  "Please note this, Ray was my very good friend before He died, I even stayed by him through out the period of his spiritual onslaught, I am constantly using his experience to remind lurkers that our beloved Ray Franz didnt take rash decisions even while the tsunami was approaching, Rather, He maintained his tranquility until He could no longer help himself. So, WHy should anyone think He or She would confidently spit on the organisation and not expect to inhale the harzadous air?. Lurkers must view all current challeges and disturbing thoughts as part of their spiriual growth not as a medium to bully Jehovahs's wife(His earthly organisation)."

  And do you know what the best part of all of this is? Nutcases like Mankkeli and Egg truly believe in their own minds that they are providing a solid "witness" for the organization. They really believe that lurkers will read their posts and somehow come to the conclusion that JWs have "the truth". Yet their lies and incoheret ramblings can really only accomplish one thing....and that is to drive lurkers further away from this mind controlling cult.
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  38

  I was counselled regarding my prayer-ridiculous,

  by iclone in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  outsmartthesystem

  Iclone - Congrats....but take LeavingWT's words seriously. You have just been red flagged. My recall hearing my uber dub father in law once say that in elders meetings they make sure to discuss and watch out for "any that might be going against the grain". If you question anything that is outside the norm.....you are now being watched. If you start to pray for those OUTSIDE the organization...you will be watched. If you decided to volunteer your time to raise money for cancer research.....(since doing so is a waste of time....the only way to REALLY help people is to get them to become witnesses so they'll live forever) you will be watched. If you make a comment at a meeting that you did some research in a publication NOT published by the society.....you will be watched. You've gone "against the grain" and you are on their radar.
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  78

  The WATCHTOWER isn't DECEITFUL , they are just IMPERFECT

  by Minimommi in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i recently started questioning my beliefs and i am not happy with what i found out.

  i am married to a born in who admits that wtbs has some problems.

  one of his favorite scriptures to quote is psalms 146:3 to "not put your trust in nobles", including the so called fds.

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  outsmartthesystem

  Here is an example of WT deceit and there are many more where this came from if you simply start cross referencing quotes found in the magazines with the actual source of the quote:

  When propping up their belief that earthquakes were on the rise (back in the 80's).....they quoted the following from the May 15, 1983 WT (p6):

  "Professor Keiiti Aki of the Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology speaks of "the apparent surge in intensity and frequency of major earthquakes during the last one hundred years".

  Professor Aki's REAL quote went on to say......"is, in all probability, due to improved recording of earthquakes and the increased vulnerability of human society to earthquake damage".

  The WT portrays Aki as agreeing that earthquake frequency and intensity appear to be on the rise. Yet if they had just gone on to include his following thought....the reader could plainly see that Aki wasn't making that assumption at all. He was clearly stating that it only SEEMS like there is a surge. And it SEEMS that way because of our modern ability to record seismic activity.

  While quoting Professor Aki....the WT never LIED. They just took his quote out of context to make it say something that Aki never intended. Knowlingly quoting someone out of context to make their words fit your argument when you KNOW that isn't what their words were intended to say is 100% deceit. I expect deceipt from certain folks in the media. Just not from men that are being directed by God to right these things.

  Here is a real life example of how I really feel:

  "Brett Favre has shown unmatched toughness in his career. He has true grit and a desire to win. But even this pales in comparison to his many faults. He turns the ball over far too often and refuses to play with discipline. He has played while injured too often when it was actually to the detriment of his team because he could not throw the ball properly. He has criticized teammates and thrown coaches under the bus. And recend news stories about his behavior also show what kind of character he has. It is not difficult to determine my feelings about the man. But then again everyone has their faults and can look good or bad when compared to someone else. Take OJ Simpson for example and if I had to compare the two of them. Overall I would say I like Brett Favre in that situation."

  Here is the WT Society's version of what I just said:

  "OSTS has this to say about Brett Favre: 'Brett Favre has shown unmatched toughness. He has true grit and a desire to win. Overall......I like Brett Favre".

  It isn't difficult to take someone's words out of context without actually lying. But if that isn't deceitful then I don't know what is
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  78

  The WATCHTOWER isn't DECEITFUL , they are just IMPERFECT

  by Minimommi in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i recently started questioning my beliefs and i am not happy with what i found out.

  i am married to a born in who admits that wtbs has some problems.

  one of his favorite scriptures to quote is psalms 146:3 to "not put your trust in nobles", including the so called fds.

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  outsmartthesystem

  "He isn't interested in WTBS history ( happened too long ago)"

  This is a classic pitfall of JWs today. They say that what happened back then happened back then. It is over now and doesn't affect the present or future. Unfortunately that is faulty reasoning. Read Don Cameron's book "Captives of a Concept". It explains in great detail how faulty this reasoning is. Supposedly Christ himself selected Rutherford and his minions as His "faithful slave" to "dispense food at the proper time" way back in 1919. Well....how is this proven? Witness publications today don't explain HOW it happened. They just explain that it DID happen. The only way to really determine if Christ really chose these men is to look back at what they were teaching WHEN CHRIST SUPPOSEDLY SELECTED THEM. What they teach NOW has absolutely no relevance as to whether or not Christ would have selected them back in 1919. What matters is what they were teaching BACK THEN. Was it truthful? Would Christ have really approved?

  I have heard this same argument from my wife. It is no different than buying a big, beautiful house with massive skylights and marble floors and mahogony trim work. Yet when a local in the area says....."you should look at the history of this land. This house was built on top of an old mining site. The foundation is weak. The land is completely hallow under there", he says "Oh well....that was a long time ago. I'm not worried about that". The point is.....he SHOULD be worried about it. Ignoring the history of the Watchtower society is akin to ignoring the foundation of this house. I am sorry....but that is the epitome of willful ignorance.
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  37

  Buried my 17 yr old nephew yesterday....hug ur kids!!

  by crazyblondeb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  cant really go into the whole story, but yesterday we bured my.

  17 yr old nephew....just reminds me of how important family is.... http://www.abc17news.com/news.php?id=4324.

  any fights, squabbles..arent important!.

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  outsmartthesystem

  My sympathies as well. I cannot imagine life without my kids at this point