Heaven: I too, don't have a clue and I am trying to make some sense of it so I can settle on something and give it a break, carry on with some kind of confidence. I know we will never know for sure, since no one ever comes back to tell us (although I almost died once, and all was pink and cushy - pink! Bluuhhkk!) Someone wrote, I forget who now, that we may still get what the JW's promised - a life on earth. He thought that the Rapture would be only to get the believers out of harms' way during the Tribulation and Armageddon and then that Christ would return them to earth for the Millenial Reign. SOunds allright, but then what? He didn't say!
Posts by misty
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60Who will go to heaven?
by misty ini know that jw's say only 144,000. however, i just read a book called "as time runs out" by robert jeffress and he claims that all christians who have received jesus will be picked up at the rapture.
but, he says, we will not all have the same rank in heaven.
he claims that different responsibilities will be assigned.
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60
Who will go to heaven?
by misty ini know that jw's say only 144,000. however, i just read a book called "as time runs out" by robert jeffress and he claims that all christians who have received jesus will be picked up at the rapture.
but, he says, we will not all have the same rank in heaven.
he claims that different responsibilities will be assigned.
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misty
Rhett: I am not a scholar or a planetary scientist. I am not even a scientist. But as far as I understand, Gen. 1:1 serves to summarize the creation in one line and show that God was there first and He created them. Then (I think) He proceeds to explain in very simple terms how he formed EARTH for us, not going into the extensive details about the entire universe, because that is not what is relevant to humans at that point. But nevertheless, he still says that the heavens came first.
Then , I gather, that He wants to show us that he provided for the process of the motion resulting in light and day ( not meaning that the earth stood still until he decided that it needed light!) Remember that (in my opinion) He meant these writing to try to explain to many generations ago, who had not the scientific knowledge that you have. I think that the order that follows is still logical (I don't think that verse 8 refers to the expanse of the universe but only to the atmosphere as 'heaven' to earthlings. Even evolutionists will agree that water would bring forth vegetation, then microscopic animals, etc. (Or am I wrong there too?)
Could it be possible that God did not intend us to understand Morning and Evening as literal but as for example 'the dawn of a new era' or 'the evening of one's life' as we often speak of? Is that far-fetched? Could we not understand that he meant that the evening was implying that He was coming to the end of that chapter of creation?
I don't think anyone can argue that the universe and stars, etc. would be around before the actual earth. But I think that simply stating that He provided light in verse 3 then adds specificity in verses 14-16 shows that He has the order wrong. No more than the fact that He mentions 1;27 'male and female He created them' and then explains in further detail in 2:21-22 how He did it and in what order.
And sure, I would prefer it if He had said "first I did this, then I did that". Then I guess, we would not be arguing, and you would believe still?!? -
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Who will go to heaven?
by misty ini know that jw's say only 144,000. however, i just read a book called "as time runs out" by robert jeffress and he claims that all christians who have received jesus will be picked up at the rapture.
but, he says, we will not all have the same rank in heaven.
he claims that different responsibilities will be assigned.
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misty
SixofNine, I agree with you that generally we are just 'born into" an inclination to believe in certain things. I was such when I grew up because my mom had been a nun and we were inclined to follow since she was our mom. However, when the JW's came around, I thought that then I was believing because they showed me proof from the Bible (granted I was biased to think it truly was God's Word). But I remember chalenging them on a lot of stuff - they had to do homework and prove all things to me. Three years of homework they did. But I was then 'convinced" to believe by proof (at least enough that seemed to satisfy my teeny brain demands.
If I were In Saudi Arabia, I would be taught the Koran, but in the same way that I wanted to know re JW's, I would still want to know where the Koran came from, realize that it is so much newer than the CHristian Scriptures, then find out also that the latter is so much newer than the Hebrew scriptures, and so on to attempt to get to the source. Then, make a judgement to see which is the truest. That still does not negate that even if I thought that I was "convinced" by logic and proof, I was still misled. I guess the bottom line is that we are only stupid and gullible humans but we still need to do the best with what is given to us and according to our conscience, and like Rhett says:"live a good life, treat others well, do the best you can". -
60
Who will go to heaven?
by misty ini know that jw's say only 144,000. however, i just read a book called "as time runs out" by robert jeffress and he claims that all christians who have received jesus will be picked up at the rapture.
but, he says, we will not all have the same rank in heaven.
he claims that different responsibilities will be assigned.
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misty
Although, SixofNine, I think the Rapture is one of those things that sound pretty weird to me. I am sure lots of people would think it is an alien abduction!
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60
Who will go to heaven?
by misty ini know that jw's say only 144,000. however, i just read a book called "as time runs out" by robert jeffress and he claims that all christians who have received jesus will be picked up at the rapture.
but, he says, we will not all have the same rank in heaven.
he claims that different responsibilities will be assigned.
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misty
I am inclined to believe it is the only real thing we can go by. It must have stood the test of time by now. If it were not so, a lot of lives would have been in vain.
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60
Who will go to heaven?
by misty ini know that jw's say only 144,000. however, i just read a book called "as time runs out" by robert jeffress and he claims that all christians who have received jesus will be picked up at the rapture.
but, he says, we will not all have the same rank in heaven.
he claims that different responsibilities will be assigned.
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misty
I agree with you, tweetiebird, I too was duped and I too really believed that I was in the true religion. When I finally woke up after nearly 15 years, I was so messed up - I thought I was having a breakdown. But I knew that everything was not lies. They after all taught us the Bible (albeit their version of it!) But think of the advantage that we have, we at least know what is in there. If someone claims some weird stuff, we will know that it is totally off the wall. I think that God knows what we have been through, and maybe he is testing us like Abraham? maybe he wants to see how far we will go and still trust in Him? I think it is up to Him to show us the real way - He wrote it, let Him explain it.
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THE END IS COMING!
by MavMan init is a fact that the end is coming.. whether it's the end of your natural life or the end of this world, one thing is for certain, the end is near.
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misty
What do you mean? I thought I would be the one telling him what to do! Or at the very least, we can together tell everyone else what to do.
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Israel could be 666?
by Mr Bean injust think about it for a moment.. israel is the two horned (headed) beast, small horn (head) =.
israel.
big horn (head)= usa.
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misty
Hey, Mr. bean, sounds to me like you read the book called "Satan's Government" by Michael Joachim or something like that. And if you didn't - then you should since he thinks just like you. Except maybe for the Palestine part. Check it out. It is fun to read and adds that the mark of the wild beast could be a chip implanted in your hand or forhead that could make shopping easier than pointing your retina at a camera scanner. However, he does not think Israel is the beast or the antichrist, and frankly, neither do I. They were the chosen nation and will still be used by God.
That is what I think so far, but I could be dissuaded with a plausible argument with lots of proof. -
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THIS IS INTERESTING!!!
by voltaire inwhen i went to mass last sunday, as i walked in there was a stack of leaflets with a message from the cardinal about pedophiles in the church!
i thought it was great.
can you imagine how you would feel if you went in to a kh and there was a copy ray franz's book for everyone?
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misty
I think that is because they have not been publicly denounced yet, whereas the Catholic church had been in the spotlight for decades about the pedophiles and the orphanages,etc. The JW's turn will come but not until some ex's like us go public - and they better be those that have no family in there still. Otherwise, they may never get these loved ones back - and it may even backfire - and make them even stronger (on account of them being persecuted for their faith and for the TRUTH).
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21
THE END IS COMING!
by MavMan init is a fact that the end is coming.. whether it's the end of your natural life or the end of this world, one thing is for certain, the end is near.
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misty
Well, you can all laugh, but the events in the middle east sure point to a head-off in that direction. Does it not say that the antichrist will sign a 7year pact with Israel to protect them and that even before then the "Church" will have to be removed (not the JW's because they think that those verses apply to their annointed only- their Israel of God) ? Looks to me like fleshly Israel is just about ripe for a saving help rom some antichrist, don't you?