Posts by ekruks

48

Bethel perfection bubble burst

by redvip2000 in

just got back from florida where i spent the holidays with family.

about half are jdubs.. this year the prevalent atmosphere of superiority from the jw side of the family was totally toned down.

one of my cousins, a bethelite in upstate ny bethel along with his wife, found out that the wife was having an affair with a young bethelite "brother".

ekruks

My BS conductor

BS? B---s---? Sorry to be rude, but yeah you got that right

48

Bethel perfection bubble burst

by redvip2000 in

just got back from florida where i spent the holidays with family.

about half are jdubs.. this year the prevalent atmosphere of superiority from the jw side of the family was totally toned down.

one of my cousins, a bethelite in upstate ny bethel along with his wife, found out that the wife was having an affair with a young bethelite "brother".

Yes, Scott, it's seriously messed up. When someone makes a mistake, give them such cold treatment they die, then celebrate a daydream about them returning one day - wouldn't have to return if they didn't die!

I thought suicide was such a sin, disrespecting the sanctity of life, that there was thought to probably be no hope of resurrection. The GB's lack of understanding of mental health just emphasises to me how they are stuck in the past - these are men who don't like the changes in the world, and hide in the organisation where they try to live like it's the 60s, before all those major changes to the world in the 70s. Hippies taking drugs wasn't very healthy, but with things such as mental health, these guys are so blind, even cruel - so much for holy spirit directing things - shouldn't God know his own creation and realise we sometimes can be unbalanced, and that it's not a decision of a healthy mind to kill one self, and that surely that can't withold someone with the resurrection (if there even is such a thing). Too many JWs have killed themselves, or more os had nervous breakdowns, severe depression, CFS etc.

I know brothers talk about 'rules not principles', but all that means is they pick which rules to follow and which to ignore, i.e. ignore their kids misdemeanours. What really needs to be done is some rules abolished or changed, such as a serious reform on disfellowshipping - it's one thing to be wary of a person for some conduct, for example discouraging your kids from hanging out with someone promoting drugs - it's another for the elders not to help that person. If I had a kid taking drugs, smoking, bing-drinking, something I thought was wrong, the door would be open to him to visit any when, as I would be looking for opportunities to help him, to encourage him to kick the habit. Even if he was in prison for murder, sure things wouldn't be the same between us, but he'd stil be my son. It's too much about keeping control of the congregation, kicking out any who don't follow rules, then others are worried they will get kicked out and get in line - companies do this to staff, but that's different, because they are not there to provide emotional support. If a company threw you out, friends and family may not be happy if it's because of a crime, etc., even say it you are stupid, but most people wouldn't just ignore you, but try to help you sort your life out.

8

2014 Predictions

by free2beme in

jw
friends

you know, every year i see these sort of things in the news and i like to do ten.

i normally get one or two right, but it could be because they like the others in the news are generic in nature.

anyway, here we go.. 1. i predict that congress will put a sales ban on ar15 rifles and limit magazine capacity to 5 rounds.

ekruks

Well, I don't know about some of these.

But there is tension between China-Japan.

Think about what this means for the Watchtower - it's exactly what it needs

This will be interpreted as King of North/South rising, etc. because they were last seen in the Cold War - so we have Russia formerly, and now via link of communism, it will be said China has taken it's place, and well, the US/UK superpower was previously said to be other king as well as current world power, they will jump to help Japan, which was practically made into a US colony in 1945, with US army instead of it's own.

New military guidelines, announced in December 2010, will direct the Japanese self-defence forces away from its Cold War focus on USSR (now Russian Federation) to a focus on China, especially regarding the dispute over the Senkaku Islands - so it's similar to the Cold War, basically capitalism/democracy vs communism again.

This will fit so nicely into their prophecy, cause some probably to panic and return to the meetings or not leave the 'Truth' so they don't die in Armageddon. It's just what they need to whip up support, to make members believe they have the truth - through the 70s, and 80s, fear of nuclear war made people worried, it was great for ministry.

The war may never happen, but US/Russia never went directly to war, but the worry still did the ministry good.

The wall may be short like UK stopping Argentina bullying people of the Falklands, but no one will know how long the war will be to it finishes, so people will panic it's World War 3. The war likely will be short, no more a World War than the Iraq conflict or Middle East crisis, but more will be made of it, just as brothers tried to see Iraq as more than it was.

The predicition of war isn't unrealistic.

Tension slowly built up between European countries before World War one, like sticks being thrown onto a fireplace, and then one day, the match that sparked the fire, and all hell broke loose, with all the frustration coming forth. USA/Europe have long been uncomfortable with China rising, as they fear their economies will be affected (recession has no connection, but doesn't help - people do stupid things when economy is affected, such as recession causing Germans to support Nazis in ironically wanting war to solve their economic problems), and people are saying things like soon we will all have to learn Chinese, etc. when they become the world power. Tension is slowly brewing, Obama doing the 'pivot to Asia', and China wants more influence.

US involvement to protect Japan isn't unrealistic

Britain joined the World War 1 to protect Belgium, and WW2 to protect Poland. USA will likewise be obligated to support Japan, for Japan changing it's ways and cooperating with the USA after WW2 - the USA abolished the Japanese army and replaced it with very limited self-defence forces - Japan may spend a lot of defence, but China is a fair threat to it: China has nuclear bombs, but the USA refused Japan such - even today Japan has USA defence bases.

Under the terms of the Mutual Security Assistance Pact, ratified in 1952 along with the peace treaty Japan had signed with the United States and other countries, United States forces stationed in Japan were to deal with external aggression against Japan while Japanese forces, both ground and maritime, would deal with internal threats and natural disasters

If the USA really fills threatened by China, war isn't nonsense. Iraq has been well theorised to be oil/finance driven. USA has it's allies in the Middle East, and Japan is an ally it needs in Asia to stop Chinese dominance.

Japan has also deepened its security and military ties with Australia, and I expect the UK will be keen to suppot America, as will some other countries of the European Union. I expect this will escalate to "the West" vs China.

51

JWs say it's my fault I didn't go to university ?!

by ekruks in

like many on here, as a jw trying hard to follow the direction of the gb, i listened to the advice to pioneer and trust in jehovah to provide (mat6.33) instead of going to university.

after struggling for ages in low-paid physically-demanding jobs, i decided to become a student (thanks for the encouragement on here guys!).

i tell a jw i wish i had been to university when i was a teenager, and put all that pioneer time into studying hard for a good grade, get a good job, and if i had wound up tired as i am now, at least i would have been paying into a mortgage on a home and pension.

ekruks

Oh man, some brilliant comments here!! Billy and likeabird on blessings being greater when quiting (they are!! lol) and rebel8 on beer and drink on the cong. Some brothers really tried to have high morals, but so do many who are not JWs - I would say Muslims, Amish, etc. exceed JWs at this!

From my experience of college (before I was pressured by elders to quit) the morals may not have been as high as the JWs encourage, but they were no different from the workplace. University is portrayed as so destructive, but being in the workplace to pioneer is ok - it's blatantly not the real reason the GB want us to miss university. As a young brother shielded from the world, I was shocked more by the workplace than college where we were too busy studying to do anything. As I grew older, people left me alone more at work, but at about ages 18-21, whether you are studying or working, you meet young people experimenting with feelings, discovering the world, sometimes painfully, and meet childish bullies perhaps more so than when an "adult".

My observations - please share yours!

Alcohol abuse: Both at college and work, there was peer pressure to go drinking, and people gave stories of being drunk, though some brothers drink a lot. One elder downed six shots, which is hardly 'moderation'.

Drugs: As for drugs, never saw any and no one mentioned it to me, though some people in the workplace talked about it. Pressure to smoke was not unique to college but in the workplace.

Wild parties: Never invited to parties at college or workplace, just drinking at pub. Lots of parties in the truth, though 'good' youngsters weren't usually invited such as me the serious pioneer. What I saw wasn't that different to world. Brothers drinking too much, flirting with sisters. These things often got out of control - one party has about 100 guests and music could be heard down the street. One sister got pregnant, supposedly at a party.

Peer pressure: This idea that at college young people have a friendship and get pressured applies to work too. There was no kind of fraternity in college, but hazing in work, and no there is aggressive hazing in Bethel where people get injured (all the stress of JW life comes out in anger).

Sex: Both at college and in the workplace I got bullied for not having a girlfriend, but I think this was because they thought I was a freak who was not interested in sex, and not because they were wanting me to join an orgie. One guy I worked with kept trying to get me to agree to go with him to a brothel, and even if it was teasing, no one in college did that. If I had been married, I wouldn't have been seen as a freak - they used to call me gay, but it was bullying, and I think a real gay would have been accepted. As for flirting, people asking you out, etc., more of that was in the workplace. It's not as if youngsters in the congregation didn't flirt, or get reproved for loose conduct or sex though it's often kept quiet.

Evolution: Lots of people in the workplace tried to convince me of evolution, and though I can find faults with it, I also find fault with the idea of God. Bullied in both workplace and college for religious beliefs - in workplace, people would destroy spiritual books, break my Bible, hit me, destroy stuff I was working on, etc.

48

Bethel perfection bubble burst

by redvip2000 in

just got back from florida where i spent the holidays with family.

about half are jdubs.. this year the prevalent atmosphere of superiority from the jw side of the family was totally toned down.

one of my cousins, a bethelite in upstate ny bethel along with his wife, found out that the wife was having an affair with a young bethelite "brother".

ekruks

All them are now singing and praying, announcing the "happy moment of resurrection".

The irony!

51

JWs say it's my fault I didn't go to university ?!

by ekruks in

like many on here, as a jw trying hard to follow the direction of the gb, i listened to the advice to pioneer and trust in jehovah to provide (mat6.33) instead of going to university.

after struggling for ages in low-paid physically-demanding jobs, i decided to become a student (thanks for the encouragement on here guys!).

i tell a jw i wish i had been to university when i was a teenager, and put all that pioneer time into studying hard for a good grade, get a good job, and if i had wound up tired as i am now, at least i would have been paying into a mortgage on a home and pension.

ekruks

Hey Chaserious, just psyched myself up to watch the AM3 video you made (hearing GB discouraging education is depressing).

Well done!

Great little video - good choice of songs with Pink Floyd (put a new meaning to that for me!) and Apl De Ap (will play this whenever I feel discouraged from education - the line "change your situation... together we can push it up the mountain... get your graduation")

Apl De Ap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPvpjuVIijc

When I look at the photos you have at the start of the videos where AM3 and Losch are smiling, they look like ordinary guys, perhaps grandpas - they don't look superhuman as the term anointed is often taken to imply, with some great insight from holy spirit. Perhaps in ignorance they mean well and genuinely believe they are protecting young ones, but their argument is weak.

AM3's comment "Philosphy 1 and Philosphy 2" makes no sense, in fact, I found it disturbing that I can give a better talk (no intention to sound arrogant, I'm sure many of you also can give a better talk!), and I know Jehovah uses all kinds of people, as he used Moses, but isn't the holy spirit meant to be on the tip of our tongue?

I also feel it's rather cold of him to just tell the parents it's their fault if their kids leave the truth - some elder's have son who aux pioneer through uni and fine, but someone's kid leaves and they are terrible It's quite clear all he is worried about is young people leaving the truth, really scared of this ! No concern about why the truth doesn't appeal to them. We note the young brother in his example did not leave the truth because he was sex-crazed, drug-addicted, etc., but because the professor gave a better argument than the GB!!! The answer isn't sort our argument out, convince people they are right, because they can't, so instead it's hide people from other options, avoid an informed choice !

This guy doesn't strike me as that bright - his answer to isn't a degree important for university is to say how good pioneering is - he doesn't explain how people are meant to survive financially. I suppose he is just thinking like many JWs I've spoken to that many people survive everyday without degrees so they are not necessary except for increased salary and social status, which is materialistic, arrogant, etc.. The problem is some people are not that great at manual work.

48

Bethel perfection bubble burst

by redvip2000 in

just got back from florida where i spent the holidays with family.

about half are jdubs.. this year the prevalent atmosphere of superiority from the jw side of the family was totally toned down.

one of my cousins, a bethelite in upstate ny bethel along with his wife, found out that the wife was having an affair with a young bethelite "brother".

ekruks

Sam
7:07 am on Saturday, December 22, 2012

Why didn't the Jehovah's Witnesses help him? Instead you say they shunned him because of his "serious sin" and told him he could return to them after he straighten his "path". How pitiful of an organization.

I think this is a good comment. Disfellowshipping doesn't help - it's just "stay away until you behave", it's not counselling. The sheperding is often useless or doesn't happen, but rather the elders seem angry a rule was broken. I mentioned above about similarities to firing someone from a company for breaking rules, but that is different; a religion is supposedly a support network. Also, a company generally isn't actively stopping people pursue a career.

Disfellowshipping is supposedly love, but it's like a parent hitting their child but never first taking the time to try to talk to them, to explain why things are wrong. No one worries about why the sin happened, why did this young man sleep with this woman, is he depressed, does he not understand the importance of scripture, or whatever. A number of times as a child, my parents put me outside and refused to let me back in while I begged on my knees for forgiveness, until many hours passed and when evening draws in, this is getting weird - seems so similar to disfellowshipping; I only pretended to agree with them to get inside.

51

JWs say it's my fault I didn't go to university ?!

by ekruks in

like many on here, as a jw trying hard to follow the direction of the gb, i listened to the advice to pioneer and trust in jehovah to provide (mat6.33) instead of going to university.

after struggling for ages in low-paid physically-demanding jobs, i decided to become a student (thanks for the encouragement on here guys!).

i tell a jw i wish i had been to university when i was a teenager, and put all that pioneer time into studying hard for a good grade, get a good job, and if i had wound up tired as i am now, at least i would have been paying into a mortgage on a home and pension.

ekruks

Broken Promises - no, I think they struggle with aspects of the religion and water some of it down, but other bits they take very seriously and can't cope without - basically, this is a conversation with family, and that's probably why it upset me so much - I fill they should help me to do my best, they don't. I also see siblings in full-time service without a full education, and my parents with pension because Armageddon is soon here.

[...] on issues like education the parent has to have a role in motivating good career choices, since many teenagers aren't inclined to do it themselves. I knew other non-JW kids from my neighborhood who didn't pursue a worthwhile career, not because of being in a cult but because the parents just didn't do their job in encouraging it.

Hi Chaserious, yes, I think kids are not generally very motivated, as they don't see the big picture, at a young age we are all naive to life, especially if isolated in a cult, some JW kids are homeschooled. I wonder why my parents, like so many JW parents, don't encourage me to study. If I made by myself the decision to go to college, well, if my parents had supported me, I could have achieved a good job. I have to put it down to the religious indoctrination, because I can't see why a parent would not want the best for their kids. Though I did notice most parents at the Kingdom hall had the attitude, "I was ok without uni, so my kids will be", which I think could even subliminally be jealousy.

BillyTheBethelite - found your post amusing.

Blondie - oh, the pressure to remain single. I hate the attitude toward dating. I'm sure as a teenager I may not have made a good choice of wife, so parents concern would be fair, but in one's twenties it's insulting to have people meddling.

Elders, parents, busybody sisters (who wish they were elders) being so interfering when I dated a sister, elders took me into the small hall at the Kingdom Hall and gave me a stern lecture on the benefits of singleness. Then I got caught holding my girlfriend's hand (supposedly 'girlfriend' was a worldly term that implied living in sin), and the prompt meeting with the elders, who went through a list of body parts asking which I had touched, didn't want to believe all we did was held hands and kissed, and then later elders checking up things were clean, basically ruined any romance. The irony was the elders' sons could flirt with sisters and it was accepted.

Aware - " painting a boat that's about to sink " - well, pioneering is " painting a boat that will never float " ! Don't distract your self from studies banging doors, do homework and get a job and house Supposedly there is such a letter, some of it was read to us at a MS meeting. Whatever, when I see any young JWs I tell them to go to college and let them know how bad jobs I've had were - one agreed with me I think they remember the 75 nonsense, but ignore it, because they can't cope with life without the hope of a paradise, otherwise it's day after day of a rubbish job, perhaps family problems, ill health, and they get depressed - paradise is the light at the end of tunnel that keeps them going.

Finkelstein - I've met Losch - people reacted like he was Jesus - he was just an old chap giving a speech; wasn't an amazing talk, for someone anointed, and when I went up to say hi, he didn't want to talk, or perhaps he was fed up with everyone wanting to shake his hand and have met the big man. I would ask him about university if I met him again

51

JWs say it's my fault I didn't go to university ?!

by ekruks in

like many on here, as a jw trying hard to follow the direction of the gb, i listened to the advice to pioneer and trust in jehovah to provide (mat6.33) instead of going to university.

after struggling for ages in low-paid physically-demanding jobs, i decided to become a student (thanks for the encouragement on here guys!).

i tell a jw i wish i had been to university when i was a teenager, and put all that pioneer time into studying hard for a good grade, get a good job, and if i had wound up tired as i am now, at least i would have been paying into a mortgage on a home and pension.

ekruks

I know I made a decision, but I made it under incredible duress/pressure, and with very limited facts, being ignorant, brought up in the Truth. I didn't even know what an 'undergraduate' was, or how much more people with degrees earn. If we had been encouraged to study when younger, who knows where people on this forum might be today. I'll make the best of the mess I'm in, and study, and improve my life, but it's like I stated a marathon an hour late.

51

JWs say it's my fault I didn't go to university ?!

by ekruks in

like many on here, as a jw trying hard to follow the direction of the gb, i listened to the advice to pioneer and trust in jehovah to provide (mat6.33) instead of going to university.

after struggling for ages in low-paid physically-demanding jobs, i decided to become a student (thanks for the encouragement on here guys!).

i tell a jw i wish i had been to university when i was a teenager, and put all that pioneer time into studying hard for a good grade, get a good job, and if i had wound up tired as i am now, at least i would have been paying into a mortgage on a home and pension.

ekruks

Thanks for your supportive comments - people I speak to seem so blind; it's frightening in a way, because I used to be convinced.

Hi ABibleStudent - I'm going to get a degree, even if it's a bit late in life, and not the best university in the world - it's difficult though financially, and having to take time to complete college is frustrating as I realise I'm getting older (UK has different names for schools than the US - from age 17-18 some teenagers go to college, which is like High School). I managed to escape the nightmare of running a cleaning business to get an office job, and my new colleagues are encouraging me to get a degree.

In the UK, the government offers a loan system for students. Basically, they will pay for undergrad studies (Bacherlor degree), and you in effect pay higher tax, as they take a percentage of whatever you earn after university. It's not high risk, because you don't get debt collectors at the door, or credit issues, because it comes out your earnings before you get them. However, JWs feel this is wrong because it's debt. However, many have mortgages which are far more risky. I know the older generation is against people living off credit cards, but not all debt is bad, especially when it financially betters you!

The other thing is that university - supposedly it's highly immoral. From my limited experience of college, before I was dragged out, I haven't found the workplace to be much different. Did anyone go to university and find it to be one orgie after another, where beer and drugs were everywhere? When JWs refer to the world, and it's problems, they will mention people like drug dealers, and characters I live among in this "lovely" neighbourhood - they don't realise many try to better themselves.

I think it has a lot to do with mind-control. The less education we have, the more ignorant we are, so easy to influence - similar to how some husbands resent wives being education. It also clashes with pioneering, though education could provide a better job to pioneer, except it opens more doors, more opportunities and pioneering becomes less appealing.