Posts by mommy

14

Ve Vil Choose Who Takes Ze Emblems

by Englishman in

jw
friends

this is a spin-off to scully's stunning account of mistreatment at the hands of jw elders.. scully was refused the emblems at a memorial celebration.

this happened once to me also, just after my father had died.

stupidly, my wife and i agreed to accompany my mother to a memorial.

mommy

LOL I love the title Eman I didn't get it until I opened the thread though. I know I heard my father speaking of passing over certain ones who might cause trouble. I also remember as a kid watching the whole procession from front to back, as each one was passed, and I do remember that an effort was made to pass over a few.

Is it fair? I don't think so, going along with their own doctrines they should allow all to pass up on partaking. If the emblems are not even placed in their hands then they made the choice for them, wouldn't you say.
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

75

Marry Christmas Jan-evolution goes down in flames

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

darwin on trial is the title of a book on evolution that has ruffled the feathers of the secular scientific community.

though a christian, author philip johnson critiques evolutionary theory from a secular standpoint as he examines the philosophical games many scientists play to protect their evolutionary ideology.

johnson, a law professor at the university of california at berkeley, attacks head-on the often-heard statement that evolution is both a fact and a theory, an evolutionary dogma that has been a major source of confusion for a long time.

mommy

Clash,
I must tell you the reason I responded to you was because you are lumping atheist into a box, and I wanted to give you a personal view on being an atheist. I insist that you stop claiming that because I am atheist I now have a brotherhood of athesist and I must conform to all of their ideas and views. This is just not the case, as I tried to point out to you. There are but a few things I will comment on, then I am bowing out of this discussion, it seems ridiculous to give you personal info, and spending so much time responding for you to ignore it.

You said:

You can not explain why we should not commit acts of moral evil and yet at the same time hold on to the athiest dogma of moral relitivism.

I am assuming you meant "relativism" Here is where you made the mistake of not reading my post. I have stated that there is no clear definition for evil, you did not refute that, and cannot refute that. You stated that god is the originator of the moral code, and anything he says goes, so to speak. If this is so would you kill if god told you to kill? Why is there accounts in the bible of humans questioning god's moral decisions? You did not answer those questions for me yet. You cannot answer those questions, because if you do then you debunk your own ideas on god having a "code" at all. It is self refuting to say that god has a moral code, but you would abanddon that code if god told you to. In essence there is no "code" just a man in charge who has whims that may change at any time. And you are to blindly follow getting whatever new info god wants to shed to you and what you should be doing that day.

You said:

The Christian World View is the only world view can provide the intelectual (logical and epistomological--how we know what we know)
answers to give a reason why there is an absolute standard for ethics and morals.

Again I have a question for you. Is christianity the only "religion" that appears to answer this question? What of the other religions that do not believe in Christ, yet have attempted to answer this question?

You said:

Q1: where you raised a Jehovahs Witness? if so then you where not raised a christian, because Jehovahs Witnesses is not Christianity.

Yes I was raised a JW, and I won't even touch your last comment, I have not the time today. I left the JW's at 18 and became involved in other religions, including but not limited to: Mormons, Lutherans, Protestants, and non denominational churches, for the next 8 years, I remained a christian.

Q1: I'm just trying to apply YOUR athistic world view and go consistanly to its logical conclusion. So then why go through all the self-bashing and being so hard on yourself? If there is no Absolute moral standard then why go through all the fuss.

I was trying to point out to you, I am my own absolute standard. You and I have the same person to answer to, and live with day in and day out, ourself. Yes you may feel guilt if you go against your god, but ultimatly you are your own worst enemy.

As your people would say "hey, relax a little, take it easy, smoke a few joints. There is no God so there is nothing to worry about"

Again you are assuiming, I have "people" and my "people" are the only ones on the planet that smoke a joint. Again I forgive you for your ignorance

One more thing. Wendy you wished me a Marry Christmas.

Actually I wished you a Merry Christmas

Why, if you are an athiest and don't believe in Jesus are into Christmas. Christmas is suppose to be about the birth of Christ(whom you dont believe). Are you contradicting yourself or just living off the fruits of the christian? Why celabrate the birth of a potental enemy(one who will send you to hell)? Is in it more consistant to say happy winter solstus?

I celebrate christmas, so I can give my children a childhood that is consistent with the rest of the other children. I do not celebrate christmas to celebrate anyones birth. This is where you are again assuming, and not knowing anything about me. Happy winter Solstice? Nah, I won't jump on that bandwagon either, because someone feels I have no right to say Merry Christmas.

Could you imagen your kids comming to you and saying "mommy why do we celabrate christmas when we are athiest and don't believe in Christ?" "Please be consistant mommy"

Again, you assume because I am an atheist, that I raise my children to be atheist. As a matter of fact, I am raising my children to be their own individual. If they choose to follow christianity then they can follow christianity, I will not stop them. I have told them that there are many religions out there, and many different beliefs. It is up to them to decide which road they will take. Perhaps your children(if and when you have them) will question you one day as to why they cannot believe in soemthing different than you. Will you provide for your children an open minded approach to other religions? Will you allow them to decide for themselves what religion they will follow? Just from your comments here, I am assuming you cannot. Because you cannot look past the little box you have wrapped in front of you. I do hope that you realize one day

Wendy, I have looked at some of your other post and think your a cool person so please dont take offence. I am praying for you...

Thanks I am sure that you praying makes you feel better, so go for it! Have a good day
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

10

Explaining 'Religion' To 5 Year Old

by HesterPryne in

jw
friends

hope you all don't mind my barging in here like this..haven't posted for a long time.

yes i am of the lurker class..lol.

now what i a hoping you all can help me with:.

mommy

Hey Hester
I have a 6 year old and a 7 year old I am trying to explain this to now. They have a JW gramma that is willing to dish out some info to them, but never follows through with the rest of their questions they have. She gives them teasers, like explaining her idea of afterlife, and her ideas on what a person should and shouldn't do, but I fear this just confuses them more.

I do not take my children to church, but I have allowed them to go to church with others, and they know that I no longer believe in the god of the bible. But I do not teach them there is no god. I feel they are too young to be given a narrow view of this world. They should decide on their own, eventually what beliefs they will want to carry. I explain to them in a very open way that everyone has different beliefs. Some people like certain colors better than others and along those line there are alot of different religions that people can choose from.

Kids are easily molded now, especially at 5 years old. I think it is important to give them an oppurtunity to make certain choices on their own. You can give her a great foundation on being an open minded person if you allow her to experience many different cultural ideas now. I know my children are getting alot of education now as to the way different religions celebrate this season. And they even have educated me on the history of the menorrah...lol

I know it is a hard thing to do, but please remember that if you give her an absolute now, such as the JW's are wrong, this will shut down her ability to make her own decisions on this matter on the future. Kids are way smart and they can usually determine if you are giving them an answer to shut them up. I feel if we give absolutes at this age group then they will end up taking on anothers opinions and not make it their own. Know what I mean? Well that is the outlook I have with my kids now. I give them a chance to experience all and they have plenty of time to make a choice as to what they will do.

I do know that Ginny Tosken who posts here has given some great reading suggestions for children and religion. I think it is for an older age group, but maybe you can email her, she is a wealth of information.

Good luck and enjoy your grandaughter, they grow up so fast!
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

20

Oral Sex is Good for You!.....Official!

by ISP in

daily mirror december 20th!.

pregnant women can reduce the risk of life threatening high blood pressure - by practising oral sex.

researchers have discovered that oral sex allows a mother-to-be to develop protection against an allergic reaction to sperm which causes pre-eclampsia, a condition which kills an average 600 babies and 10 mothers in the uk every year.. dr. louise kenny, who specialises in the condition, says"normally something happens in pregnancy which allows the woman to accept sperm, but in some cases rejects it, which results in her developing dangerously high blood pressure.

mommy

ISP,
LOL Did you print this for my benefit as well?
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

4

DejaVu Santa Claus

by Mulan in

jw
friends

a couple of weeks ago, i posted about how when my parents became dubs, i still watched for santa claus on christmas eve.

i thought he just didn't come to our house anymore.

an interesting situation came up this week that made me think of that again.. our seven year old grandson has been raised as a jw, until this late this year, and his mother is no longer active either, but is still uncomfortable about the holidays, which i find understandable.

mommy

Mulan,
Awww, that is the hardest part about this. Christmas is such a joyous holiday, and the joy that a child has to get toys! What child would not want that, and how sad to be left out. I can tell you from a child of the org, that I actually am feeling childlike again as each holiday comes. I don't know, not celebrating earlier, may help me stay younger longer
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

22

denied babtism

by rakiasp in

jw
friends

i have a question that puzzles me and would like to receive some ideas.

i used to be a witness for two years before fading away, leaving quietly.

i was not disfellowshipped and i did not write a letter of dissasociation.. the way i got babtised was such that noone from my congragation saw it since the babtisees were taken by buses from the convention to a private swimming pool.

mommy

LOL @ Natas,
Well you could be like Rakiasp and not even get anyone to view it
wendy

Edited to add, I went to about 5 congos in a small area, so I also knew alot of people.

When I leave, you will know I have been here

22

denied babtism

by rakiasp in

jw
friends

i have a question that puzzles me and would like to receive some ideas.

i used to be a witness for two years before fading away, leaving quietly.

i was not disfellowshipped and i did not write a letter of dissasociation.. the way i got babtised was such that noone from my congragation saw it since the babtisees were taken by buses from the convention to a private swimming pool.

mommy

Hey rakiasp and welcome
I have to advice you not to lie about this. Because one lie may turn into another lie and so on. I know after I was baptised I had many people for weeks after the fact, giving me gifts and congratulating me. So they could ask why you never clarified those comments if you received them as well.

Anywho, I wouldn't recommend lieing to them, as Natas said, "You owe them nothing"
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

75

Marry Christmas Jan-evolution goes down in flames

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

darwin on trial is the title of a book on evolution that has ruffled the feathers of the secular scientific community.

though a christian, author philip johnson critiques evolutionary theory from a secular standpoint as he examines the philosophical games many scientists play to protect their evolutionary ideology.

johnson, a law professor at the university of california at berkeley, attacks head-on the often-heard statement that evolution is both a fact and a theory, an evolutionary dogma that has been a major source of confusion for a long time.

mommy

D,
I understand what you are trying to say, but I am afraid that it is just one outlook on this. Part of survival is getting along with others so that you will prosper. Now you are saying survial of the fittest is the evolutionary way. This does not mean that you kill everyone but yourself. That would serve no purpose. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty and pick apart why we have the morals we have, you will need to look individually at them. Do you want to? I hate to spend all that time if you are not interested. But I could probably pick every act and explain in a logical way why we should not commit them.
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

49

To: Ex-JW Women - Your Side

by Amazing in

jw
friends

ex-jw women: i, and i assume other ex-jw men, would enjoy hearing your views, opinions, feelings, analysis, and conclusions about your jw experience.

how did you feel about your husband, fathers, brothers, elders, ms's, and other women in the organizations?

did you generally feel oppression, and why?

mommy

Amazing
Are you trying to score some brownie points? I think if we could JT's wife to post then we would get an earful. I have always wanted to meet her, she sounds like a wonderful woman. As for my experience I was raised in the org and my father served as an elder twice, between disfellowshippings I had a handful of sisters and I left before my brothers were baptized.

I like the others would be so upset when an able bodied woman was passed over because she was wearing a dress. Many times in field service this happened, and what would have taken 3 minutes turned into 15 minutes of who is riding in which car, or which street we will work next. I saw a few men who actually swelled when they were in charge, and this was hard to swallow.

Due to my father living a double life, I always questioned authority. I never really trusted any of the males, especially if they looked too perfect to be true. So I never had a problem speaking my mind, often times I was "counseled" for my behavior but it never slowed me down. I saw many woman though bow their heads and take it, but I rarely did that.

I never envied that only males could read the watchtower, and give Sunday talks, or be in charge of bookstudies. I personally did not like attention and would never want those types of jobs. I would love to see elders that are female though. I think a female is more fit for the role, due to her motherly nature. Most men never get the fatherly role down, even with children of their own. And there are some things that a female cannot talk to a male about, but we were forced to due to the restraints of no female elders.

I was already out of the org when I was married, but that did not stop my mother from giving me the "a wife is subject to her husband" speach. Actually she was at my home when my hubby decided to sell my stereo for drugs, and she encouraged me to look the other way, and remember he was the head of the house. And after I told her he had cheated on me and beat me almost everyday, I was again encouraged by her to remain a wife that will overpower her husband by my actions, not words. When I called to tell her that I had left him and I was alone with a 3 month old child, and found out I was pregnant, no $ coming in and I was hungry, they had turned the power off and I was about to be homeless. She again told me to forgive my husband because I could not make it on my own. And I was married in the eyes of the God and that could not be broken.

Overall, I think my experience of oppression by the org, and witnessing others stories of abuse, condensation, and uncalled for humility. I think it actually strengthened me. I wanted to show the world that I could do anything, no matter the odds. I have always been outspoken, that has not changed. But I will tell you that if I didn't know I was supposed to be a good girl and keep my mouth shut, I never would have fought so hard against it.

Another thing, my brother is now dating a Jw girl, and both are active Jw's now. I can tell you that I see some things that really repulse me about their relationship. My mother encourages him to take the lead and encourages her to obey him. Now why would a 19 year old male not like that idea?
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

75

Marry Christmas Jan-evolution goes down in flames

by clash_city_rockers in

jw
friends

darwin on trial is the title of a book on evolution that has ruffled the feathers of the secular scientific community.

though a christian, author philip johnson critiques evolutionary theory from a secular standpoint as he examines the philosophical games many scientists play to protect their evolutionary ideology.

johnson, a law professor at the university of california at berkeley, attacks head-on the often-heard statement that evolution is both a fact and a theory, an evolutionary dogma that has been a major source of confusion for a long time.

mommy

Hey Clash,
I tried responding to you last night, but the pc ate my post and I was way tired so I thought I would come back and try again today. I am not denying that my morals were based on the christians ethical code or the 10 commandments. I was raised a christian and remained one for 26 years. What I have a problem with is, you thinking that because I am no longer a christian I would throw all my morals out the window. I still have to answer to the same person I had to answer to for 27 years, myself. And truth be known I am way hard on myself, much more so than anyone else I know. So I assure you that if another atheist tried to persuade me to abandon my own conscience I would not be jumping on that bandwagon. As a matter of fact I have never met an atheist that would even try to impress their own moral code on me.

The question for the Athiest is "If there is NO ABSOLUTE MORAL OR ETHICAL STANDERD, then why should I or anyone reject the evils of murder and rape as being morraly wrong?"

If you are asking that question, then please answer mine. Question for the christian: If all that is needed is repentance, then what is to stop a christian to commit any of the above acts, ask for repentance and then be saved?

Of course I do not want an answer to that question, I just used it to show you that it boils down to not if one is atheist or christian, but what moral code(conscience) the individual person has.

I would glady take you up on going out to lunch. And if you are ever in NY, or I in Cali, I would love to meet you. As I said before I do not blame you for your ignorance, I was once a christian, I understand why you think the way you do. It was not long ago that I also felt the same as you. Perhaps if we were ever to meet, and you saw how I am, I may be able to show you a side of an atheist you have never seen. And then you can grow a bit in your limited views.

As far as your pop quizzes go, it does nothing but show you are acting like an arrogant person, imo. I am assuming that the only ones who know the answers to those questions are those who are interested in them and those who are required to learn them. It does not show me any of your ideas or thoughts on this matter, more along the lines of useless info.

I would really be interested in your ideas on what Alan F. said, about God's arbitrary rule. As you know there are places in the bible that even imperfect humans questioned God's judgements. Why do you think that was? Why would a human even question god's commandments? How could a human have a higher moral code than the man who created the morals to begin with?

Have a great day and Merry Christmas
wendy
edited for typos

When I leave, you will know I have been here