Posts by QUANTUM

30

Quantum / See ExMormon Board

by Amazing in

jw
friends

okay quantum: before we do battle with your so-called 'evidence' which are nothing more then unproven assertions --- it is only fair that people here see the ex-mormon board, and except for the label differences, like borg (jw) vs morg (lds) and things like that ... it is like reading a parallel universe of the ex-jw boards ... and the problems with child molestation (i.e.

jeff anderson lawsuit against the mormon church in portland, oregon) and the abuse of women all sound like familiar themes ... and clearly give abundant evidence that the same symptoms must suggest the same causes .... check it out at: http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/w-agora.php3?site=exmobb&bn=exmobb_recovery.

one ex-mormon fellow has even complained how he was inappropriately touched during his ordination ceremony ... by another man who rubbed up against him with an erection.. such experiences do not address your assertions, and are not intended to ... rather, these and many other ex-mormon experiences suggest that even if the bom, d&c or jod were somewhat historical as is the bible, that mormonism is still seriously deficient ... lacking so much that it does not hold up to being a worthwhile group to participate in ... and .... while many ex-jws are quite capable of debating with you ... i have invited ex-mormons to register here and see if they will deal with you ... they are in a far better position to address your claims and assertions and raise strong and credible concerns ... whereas we ex-jws can sit back and watch and see where it goes.

QUANTUM

What happened to all of those ex mormons gonna set me straight?

Here is what some of you need to understand...and this time I assure you I'm not talking down to you or insulting you...I probably took that a little to far and because of other responses to me I certainly helped carry it on.....

The teachings of the LDS church are based on Joseph Smith and his declaration of his prophetic calling. Everything that the church is can be defined in that one principle. He is a prophet or not. If not then the church is a fake and we who are members and those that are dead have believed a lie.

We know beyond all doubt that many of the evidences which are used to demonstrate his prophetic calling are absolutely infalible. And they are admitted by even the detractors. Why would they admit to those things. why would they say there doesn't seem to be an answer. Well, they also won't admit then that he must be a prophet....why?

From the beginning Smith turned the corner of the "worlds" he and the early members lived in up side down. He was a beloved prophet to some, a scoudrel to many. He taught things no one had ever heard of before...he scared a lot of people. The church moved into areas and would take over putting the citizenry in alarm. Certainly not all but some of the things which happened to the "saints" they brought on themselves.

Many people wanted to get rid of the mormons and were finally successful by chasing them all the way to Utah.

The bottom line is this...we do not teach that anyone can know or understand the truth of things by his own study or intellect. WE believe if you want to know the truth GOD himself has to tell you.

J. Smith life was and is very controversial outside the confines of the church....so are others like Brigham Young.....but there is also great things that are said about him from people who have studied both sides of the issue and not members of the church.

His teachings, though strange to some are not to those who claimed to have received a testimony by revelation (promised to those who diligently seek it).....The detractors at the time of Christ made many false accusations agaist him as well as every other prophet in the Bible. Irrefutable evidences can and are given to his prophet calling. they are only to help lead to a personal revelation of the truth which they seek. we do not ask anyone to accept our teachings or excommunicate members for questioning some church doctrine. (Like apparently the wts does)

If anyone receives that witness do they need to question again if the revelation was true or if they can't fully understand why someone is making spurious comments about the church....do they still need to keep asking the question is it true?

Those who leave the church have never understood this...they are the ones who chose to leave.... they are always welcomed back.

If someone said Smith did something that doesn't look just right do I loose the truth that I have attained to also question it....PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH WHO LEAVE THE CHURCH BECAUSE OF DOCTINAL ISSUES NEVER BELIVED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE..WHY DID CHRIST SAY NO ONE CAN KNOW THAT I AM THE CHRIST EXCEPT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT...GOD HAS TO REVEAL IT TO YOU!!!

Any way I don't think you'll get anyonr to respond to this from the ex mormons.....these people are not like ex JW's they are not vindictive over the control people had of their lives(with the exception of a very few who may have those feelings)

QUANTUM

P.S. Don't ask Smith if he is a prophet ...ask GOD!!

109

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

please refer to the following.

http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

QUANTUM

CHILD ABUSE IS EVERYONES PROBLEM.......but how one deals with it is the issue.

It's not just the churches....it's in every organization...it could even be lerking here amongst your freindly board members.

this timothy kosnff is some one who obviously specializes in these kinds of cases.....I would think he would have anumber of them to display.....but it is of no real value because it is all heresay. However, I don't deny that TheLDS church has it's perpetrators.

Quantum the REASONABLE

30

Quantum / See ExMormon Board

by Amazing in

jw
friends

okay quantum: before we do battle with your so-called 'evidence' which are nothing more then unproven assertions --- it is only fair that people here see the ex-mormon board, and except for the label differences, like borg (jw) vs morg (lds) and things like that ... it is like reading a parallel universe of the ex-jw boards ... and the problems with child molestation (i.e.

jeff anderson lawsuit against the mormon church in portland, oregon) and the abuse of women all sound like familiar themes ... and clearly give abundant evidence that the same symptoms must suggest the same causes .... check it out at: http://www.exmormon.org/boards/w-agora/w-agora.php3?site=exmobb&bn=exmobb_recovery.

one ex-mormon fellow has even complained how he was inappropriately touched during his ordination ceremony ... by another man who rubbed up against him with an erection.. such experiences do not address your assertions, and are not intended to ... rather, these and many other ex-mormon experiences suggest that even if the bom, d&c or jod were somewhat historical as is the bible, that mormonism is still seriously deficient ... lacking so much that it does not hold up to being a worthwhile group to participate in ... and .... while many ex-jws are quite capable of debating with you ... i have invited ex-mormons to register here and see if they will deal with you ... they are in a far better position to address your claims and assertions and raise strong and credible concerns ... whereas we ex-jws can sit back and watch and see where it goes.

QUANTUM

amazing.........what's amazing is that you would go to an ex mormon board to try and get one or more of them to test their LACK of knowledge agaist me. The reason they are ex's as they never learned the first things about the church....I would LOVE TO CHAT WITH THEM!!!

QUANTUM THE INVISIBLE!!!!!

109

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

please refer to the following.

http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

QUANTUM

That's ok d8ta maybe you'll pick up something you can use later to help you through your unhappy life.

I think some of you are just poor sports......can't take a little freindly critizism............I was just agast when I first opened this site and saw all of the self pitty and crying over spilt milk. I felt the best action to take when you find someone has lied and taken advantage of you is to fight back. But all I heard and am still hearing is what thet big bad church did to some of you who should have known better. The child abuse is a completely different matter and I am as horrified as any of you.

Quantum HAS A HEART

109

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

please refer to the following.

http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

QUANTUM

CYRANO:

I think you have a few things mixed up.

The wts has been around for 125 years with a current active membership in the USA of less than o million...was of their converts are in third world countries...why is that?...because educated intellegent people see right through their smoke screen. on the other hand The LDS church has around 4 million active members in this country and not too much older than the wts. If you were to examine the education of the average LDS you will find it is the highest of all churches per capita....the WTS...is the least educated...does this say anything about the kind of people who have fallen into such a false organization AS THE LDS CHURCH?

your nose is blocking you eyesight

QUANTUM ..HE WHO INSTRUCTS

109

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

please refer to the following.

http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

QUANTUM

d8ta......this is a serious discussion ...if you want to talk about fair tails and comic books go start your own thread...see if anyone wants to talk to you!

QUANTUM A RIGHTEOUS JUDGE!!!

109

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

please refer to the following.

http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

QUANTUM

My dear nancee park:

I can't think of a church which does not condemn the followers of religions not theirs to destruction or hell. The LDS church is alone in teaching everyone is loved by the same GOD who is our Heavenly Father. Everyone will receive salvation unless you just plain don't want it. Why this incredible ridiculing of a faith that gurantees the hopeless not only hope but assurances.

In the BOM it says that Christ would be born in Jerusalem. This was one of those things the church was often ridiculed for. Thats why it was so nice that when archeologists discovered ancient writings ( which can be produced) that during the time of Lehi (600 bce) the area around the principle city of Jerusalem was called Jerusalem. just as often times we refer to portland as where we live even though we live in a smaller city next to portland.

The Temple is not a secret place but sacred...anyone is admitted who willingly abides by the doctrines of the church.

Again the adding to the book argument has become a tiring issue...this is one of those worn out things which never go away no matter how many times it is explained to the complete mental vaccuums.The book of revelation was not in the bible we have today. It was even written before some of the new testament books. It was talking about itself when it makes the statement of adding to it. It says the same thing in the book of deuteronomy. if we went along those lines we can do away with half of the old testament and all of the new.

QUANTUM...THE ONE WHO KNOWS

109

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

please refer to the following.

http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

QUANTUM

ss

you need to lean a little more about the bible...only about 20% of people, places and events can be varified from history, and archeology........you would think that with several million hebrews trampsing around the Sainai desert that other peoples would be aware of them and make mention of them....no such thing has been found. Thousands of things can be mentioned regarding what is not said about the Bible. What is said is the important thing as is the case with The Book Of Mormon.

109

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

please refer to the following.

http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

QUANTUM

WELL, amazing......

you need to read more than one side of an issue. The validity to the Book Of Abraham is not in what someone said Smith was able or unable to do but the text itself which is now baffling non member scholars as they compare it to recently recovered ancient writings which agree with stupid old JOE Smith who don't know nuttin or is just a big bad fraud. name calling can't change the facts.

What about those young Mormon Missionaries.....up until they go on a mission few have any real in depth knowledge of the church or it's doctrine...but most have a conviction that the church is true which is confirmed by the end of their mission.

they have a specfic set of teachings they persue. The Lord nor the church is sending Bible scholars out to try and convince people by superior intellect of the scriptures thruth. WE teach that everyone has to seek GODS answer whether we teach a true or false docrine. Some questions are asked by people which the missionaries don't know or think they know. Some answer them wrong....the doctrines of the church have not change since the prophet first saw GOD and JESUS CHRIST in the grove of trees near his home in up state NY

Equating the American Indian with the Book Of Mormon Peoples is inaccurate and does not account for a host of other vital details. It is not certain, but it is commonly held by most Mormon scholarship that Lehi and his family landed in Mezoamerica just below Mexico and remained there for the entire saga of their history. Other previous migrations to the Americas are numerous and are not accounted for in the Book...some are.....The American Indian may have some of the blood of Lehi's decendants but that is pure speculation.

J. Smith was not Jesus Christ and never claimed superiority to HIM. He was given a gun after he entered the jail because the govenor who swore to protect him and his brother so a fair trial could conviene, skipped out of town so he could be assasinated. J. Smith was brought before judges and magistrates all of his life and was only convicted once for something equivalent to disturbing the peace..when he was around 18 years old.

QUANTUM IS A GREAT TEACHER he doesn't spell very well though

Edited by - QUANTUM on 11 July 2002 20:32:21

Edited by - QUANTUM on 11 July 2002 20:33:50

109

LET THE EVIDENCE BEGIN

by QUANTUM in

jw
friends

please refer to the following.

http://farms.byu.edu/free/transcripts/index.html.

begin with daniel peterson's evidences for the book of mormon.

QUANTUM

The tanners are a poor and ridiculous source for slaming the church. Their false knowledge and statements have been uncovered and answered many years ago. No one except the completely ignorant accept their falacious writings.

AS I said...the church has never hidden anything of it's past.....were some Mormons racists...no doubt... Did Joseph smith try to adopt a black child...yes...she lived with them many years.....did he Run for President of the united states and supported freeing the slaves and had a workable plan to do so...yes.....Are the journel of discourses a completly accurate library for what was said and done ...no ..many of the things were writen by scribes which were recording things that J. Smith and others were saying at public and private occasions.....it is not the gospel...

QUANTUM THE UNDEFEATED!!!